14:03:54 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lws
14:03:58 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/10/28-lws-irc
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14:04:19 <ericP> zakim, start meeting
14:04:19 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:04:21 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), ericP
14:04:38 <ericP> meeting: Linked Web Storage
14:05:06 <AZ> present+
14:05:12 <acoburn> present+
14:05:16 <ericP> present+
14:05:18 <eBremer> present+
14:05:19 <csarven> present+
14:05:24 <hadrian> present+
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14:07:53 <TallTed> present+
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14:08:57 <ericP> zakim, pick a victim
14:08:57 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose TallTed
14:10:24 <TallTed> TallTed has changed the topic to: Linked Web Storage WG -- 2024-10-18 agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/a19ab7dc-1753-433d-bac5-64e3ad8c0a43/20241028T100000/
14:10:31 <ericP> scribenick: csarven
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14:11:14 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:11:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/28-lws-minutes.html TallTed
14:11:22 <TallTed> RRSAgent, make logs public
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14:12:47 <TallTed> i|meeting: Linked Web Storage|agenda:  https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/a19ab7dc-1753-433d-bac5-64e3ad8c0a43/20241028T100000/
14:14:23 <csarven> jacoscaz: I'm Jacopo Scazzosi. Here as IE. Some of you may know me from WebID CG. I was the last chair before closing. I'm working on quadstore. Also some dependencies on Comunica. Here interested in what's going on, and specifically how this would apply in IoT, and how Solid would apply there. Where I've been focusing on 5-6 years. Based in Milan.
14:14:24 <TallTed> i|meeting: Linked Web Storage|previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2024/10/11-lws-minutes.html
14:14:24 <TallTed> i|meeting: Linked Web Storage|next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2024/11/04-lws-minutes.html
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14:14:42 <ericP> topic: introductions
14:14:49 <jacoscaz> present+
14:14:53 <ericP> topic: announcements
14:14:57 <jeswr> present+
14:15:27 <csarven> ericP: noting no updates from the room
14:15:29 <ericP> topic: Minutes process
14:15:50 <csarven> ericP: Ideally we have a scribe list and we rotate.
14:15:56 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:15:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/28-lws-minutes.html TallTed
14:16:14 <csarven> ... There is protocol ( https://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot.html )
14:16:39 <TallTed> s/topic: introductions//
14:16:39 <TallTed> i/Jacopo Scazzosi/topic: introductions
14:16:45 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:16:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/28-lws-minutes.html TallTed
14:17:45 <TallTed> w3c scribing documentation -- https://w3c.github.io/scribe2/scribedoc.html
14:17:50 <csarven> ... {summarises common Zakim commands and interactions}
14:18:15 <ericP> -> https://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot.html IRC conventions
14:19:45 <jucanbe> jucanbe has joined #lws
14:20:41 <csarven> ... {scribes help to capture discussions, records actions and decisions}
14:20:43 <AZ> +1 to this proposal
14:21:23 <AZ> s/+1 to this proposal//
14:21:56 <ericP> proprosed: create a list of WG participants and rotate through the list to select the weekly scribe
14:22:03 <AZ> +1
14:22:32 <acoburn> +1
14:22:41 <jucanbe> +1
14:22:44 <hadrian> +1
14:22:45 <TallTed> +1
14:22:48 <eBremer> +1
14:22:48 <jeswr> +1
14:22:52 <csarven> +1
14:22:58 <jacoscaz> +1
14:23:00 <ryey> +1
14:23:12 <eBremer> s/proprosed/proposed/
14:23:43 <ericP> resolved: create a list of WG participants and rotate through the list to select the weekly scribe
14:24:46 <csarven> RESOLUTION: List for scribes will be created (ahead of time)
14:24:53 <ericP> ACTION: acoburn to create scribe list
14:25:04 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:25:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/28-lws-minutes.html TallTed
14:25:27 <ericP> topic: Use Cases Document
14:25:30 <acoburn> q+ adding yourself to a queue
14:25:39 <TallTed> s/RESOLUTION: List for scribes will be created (ahead of time)//
14:25:50 <TallTed> q+
14:26:13 <ericP> q+ to say that it's important to say "to say"
14:26:17 <csarven> acoburn: {summarises queuing to speak}
14:26:19 <TallTed> q?
14:26:35 <ericP> Zakim, next
14:26:35 <Zakim> I don't understand 'next', ericP
14:26:57 <csarven> TallTed: {adds to queue actions}
14:27:39 <ericP> next
14:27:39 <csarven> ... re PROPOSAL/RESOLUTION should be on the same line. If ACTIONS are emotes, they don't go into minutes. ???
14:27:52 <ericP> ack
14:28:01 <TallTed> ack TallTed
14:28:11 <TallTed> chair: ericP
14:28:23 <ericP> next
14:28:58 <ryey> present+
14:28:59 <TallTed> ack ericP
14:28:59 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to say that it's important to say "to say"
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14:30:52 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:30:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/28-lws-minutes.html TallTed
14:31:01 <csarven> ericP: W3C Process ??? every WG has a charter. Loosely identifies the objectives of the group. During the process of the specifciations, the WG clarifies the Success Criteria. Those closely line up with successful implementations.
14:31:28 <csarven> ... We'll write a test suite and probably test tooling that will verify ??? following tests correctly.
14:31:34 <csarven> ... That describes the specification and testing.
14:31:46 <TallTed> s/should be on the same line/should have exactly the same text/
14:31:46 <csarven> ... But for principle decisions we start with Use Case documents
14:31:59 <csarven> ... For each Use Case (UC) there is a high level business case.
14:32:03 <csarven> ... Then technical analysis
14:32:21 <csarven> ... Typically at some point someone will group them into Requirements.
14:32:42 <csarven> ... So our job initially to write high level UCs and to create a recipe for what our Success Criteria are.
14:33:06 <csarven> ... This process will involve things perhaps too much. We can include things in the UC but we can reject because a bridge too far, or not a minimal viable product.
14:33:17 <csarven> ... So, simply writing something in the UC doesn't it has to be addressed
14:33:26 <csarven> q+
14:33:56 <csarven> ... We'll pick a couple of editors, and act as "coders" taking PRs or emails from proposals and sort of organise it to the conventions that are elsewhere in the document.
14:34:18 <TallTed> managing the queue is covered here -- https://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot.html -- and `ack next` does what ericP wanted earlier
14:34:22 <ericP> ack csarven
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14:36:05 <ericP> csarven: two minor points:
14:36:05 <ericP> ... 1. [bookkeeping] we need to document what use cases we accept
14:36:28 <ericP> ... 2. we need to document which use cases we decided NOT to address and why, e.g. no one willing to implement)
14:37:37 <csarven> ericP: Do we want to UC documents in the same repo?
14:37:54 <csarven> acoburn: We have two repos. One for the protocol and the other for the UC document.
14:38:00 <acoburn> -> https://github.com/w3c/lws-ucs Use Cases repository
14:38:39 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:38:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/28-lws-minutes.html TallTed
14:38:46 <csarven> ericP: There is one person volunteering to editor of UC?
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14:39:11 <csarven> acoburn: We're finalising that list now. Some UCs are coming in.
14:39:42 <csarven> ericP: We'll send links out to the mailing list out when that initial document is created?
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14:39:51 <csarven> acoburn: Only after we collect the UCs and triage.
14:40:00 <csarven> ... Right now the process is that the UCs are submitted as issues.
14:40:18 <csarven> ... There is a PR for the UC template.
14:40:39 <csarven> ... Once that is merged, I think the UC submissions can follow a standard format
14:40:59 <TallTed> -> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol LWS Protocol repository
14:41:32 <TallTed> s|lws-ucs Use Cases repository|LWS lws-ucs Use Cases repository
14:41:44 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:41:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/28-lws-minutes.html TallTed
14:42:15 <csarven> ericP: Anyone have documents that we should look at for UCs? e.g., slide 63 for Ted talk
14:42:28 <acoburn> q+ to say there were use cases from TPAC
14:42:34 <ericP> ack next
14:42:35 <Zakim> acoburn, you wanted to say there were use cases from TPAC
14:43:03 <csarven> acoburn: We had a meeting at TPAC2024 and there were some UCs proposed then. Just a reminder that those UCs will be submitted to this process.
14:43:05 <TallTed> s|/LWS lws-ucs Use Cases repository|/lws-ucs LWS Use Cases repository|
14:43:13 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:43:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/28-lws-minutes.html TallTed
14:43:21 <csarven> -> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sFZ0BozoLA3U7iROtu10tR7S05_OEOprS8Um9NZqZYw/edit
14:43:46 <ericP> action acoburn to look for use cases recorded at the TPAC breakout section
14:43:51 <csarven> ack
14:43:53 <csarven> q+
14:44:03 <ericP> ack next
14:45:06 <ericP> csarven: will someone take an action to translate the use cases mentioned during the meeting to a format using the template?
14:45:15 <csarven> csarven: Can you clarify whether someone will create the UCs from the TPAC meeting or we should do it?
14:45:22 <TallTed> s|1sFZ0BozoLA3U7iROtu10tR7S05_OEOprS8Um9NZqZYw/edit|1sFZ0BozoLA3U7iROtu10tR7S05_OEOprS8Um9NZqZYw/edit minutes of TPAC 2024 Breakout Session: "Breaking Silos: A Collaborative Discussion on Use Cases for Linked Web Storage"
14:45:49 <ericP> acoburn: now that we have a template, i'll reach out to the folks who aired use cases at TPAC
14:46:06 <csarven> acoburn: Now that we have a UC template, we can formulate them in a way that works for the TPAC UCs.
14:46:34 <TallTed> s/acoburn: now that we have a template, i'll reach out to the folks who aired use cases at TPAC//
14:46:58 <acoburn> q+
14:47:04 <ericP> ack next
14:47:18 <csarven> acoburn: We talked about among the chairs re meeting cadence.
14:47:34 <ericP> topic: Meeting Cadence
14:47:36 <csarven> ... Some context: in the WG charter, it says this group will meet every two weeks.
14:47:46 <csarven> ... I know we have two years and a lot of material to cover.
14:47:53 <csarven> ... It may be too infrequent.
14:48:00 <csarven> ... I'd like to propose that we meet weekly.
14:48:14 <acoburn> Proposed: The lws working group will meet weekly rather than every other week.
14:48:16 <csarven> ... Open discussion first or propose?
14:48:25 <csarven> ericP: Propose is fine.
14:48:38 <ericP> +1
14:49:06 <timbl> +1
14:49:06 <jeswr> +1
14:49:07 <AZ> +1 for the reasons mentioned by Aaron, although it will make it difficult for me to attend each time
14:49:11 <eBremer> +1
14:49:13 <csarven> csarven: +1 (provided there is some consideration on different days / timezones to consider)
14:49:21 <hadrian> +1
14:49:40 <acoburn> +1
14:49:52 <ryey> 0
14:50:02 <jacoscaz> +1
14:50:12 <jucanbe> +1
14:51:06 <ericP> csarven: some folks weren't able to meet during the last meeting and won't be able to in the future
14:51:26 <ericP> q+ to give a history of variable meeting times
14:51:26 <TallTed> +1
14:51:27 <timbl> q+ to discuss timezones
14:52:01 <TallTed> q+ to suggest alternating meeting time
14:52:06 <ericP> csarven: if we have task forces or other minuted meetings, we might need different times
14:52:10 <ericP> ack next
14:52:11 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to give a history of variable meeting times
14:53:27 <csarven> ericP: Some groups have tried rotating meeting times and have typically fallen back to just having a regular consistent time. The chaos meant less people showed. That may be not be the case but just saying. Re TF, they can certainly meet at their own times.
14:53:41 <csarven> ... If somebody can't make it they might be able to make it every other week.
14:53:46 <ericP> ack next
14:53:47 <Zakim> timbl, you wanted to discuss timezones
14:54:46 <csarven> timbl: Even having every other week ??? Every weeks is acceptable. Rotating has some probs.
14:55:49 <ericP> s/week ???/week means people forget or miss meeting.
14:56:11 <ericP> ack next
14:56:12 <Zakim> TallTed, you wanted to suggest alternating meeting time
14:56:29 <csarven> TallTed: Being involved in different groups, working with folks doing all of the above.
14:56:50 <csarven> ... Alternating times so people in Asia can meet.
14:57:24 <csarven> ... I strongly suggest using the W3C calendar. Subscribe to it. You'll at least see it and can send regrets or know the right time. That works most reliably.
14:57:24 <timbl> agree use the calendar.
14:57:30 <ericP> ack ext
14:57:33 <ericP> ack mext
14:57:38 <ericP> ack next
14:58:40 <ericP> PROPOSED: next meeting in 1 week. will address future scheduling at that meeting
14:58:47 <acoburn> +1
14:58:49 <hadrian> +1
14:58:52 <TallTed> +1
14:58:59 <eBremer> +1
14:59:01 <timbl> +1
14:59:01 <AZ> +1
14:59:02 <jeswr> +1
14:59:08 <ryey> +1
14:59:08 <jacoscaz> +1
14:59:13 <ericP> ack next
14:59:44 <ericP> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:59:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/28-lws-minutes.html ericP
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