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12:55:51 <kaz> rrsagent, bye
12:55:51 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
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12:55:57 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/10/24-wot-td-irc
12:56:06 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF - Slot 2
12:56:13 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura
12:56:28 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#October_23-24%2C_2024
12:58:45 <kaz> present+ Michael_Koster
12:59:32 <kaz> present+ Michael_McCool
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13:04:38 <kaz> present+ Kunihiko_Toumura
13:07:31 <McCool> McCool has joined #wot-td
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13:08:21 <McCool> IEEE SWEBOK: https://ieeecs-media.computer.org/media/education/swebok/swebok-v4.pdf - definition of "requirements"
13:08:26 <kaz> present+ Luca_Barbato
13:08:38 <kaz> i/IEEE/topic: Logistics/
13:08:43 <McCool> update to requirements presentation including a template: https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/PRESENTATIONS/2024-09-tpac/2024-09-26-WoT-TPAC-Requirements-McCool.pptx
13:08:48 <kaz> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
13:08:50 <kaz> q+
13:09:16 <kaz> q-
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13:11:06 <luca_barbato> scribenick: Luca_Barbato
13:11:18 <kaz> scribenick: luca_barbato
13:11:46 <luca_barbato> topic: Agenda Review
13:12:00 <luca_barbato> mk: Today we want to focus on the Use Cases
13:12:10 <kaz> i|Today|-> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#October_23-24%2C_2024 agenda for today|
13:12:25 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
13:12:30 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:12:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/24-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
13:12:38 <luca_barbato> topic: Meeting Minutes
13:12:46 <kaz> regrets+ Ege
13:12:47 <luca_barbato> mk: We already reviewed them yesterday
13:12:57 <luca_barbato> topic: Use Cases
13:13:20 <luca_barbato> mk: First we'll have mm present
13:13:51 <luca_barbato> mm: I had a presentation at TPAC, I extended the presentation and uploaded it
13:14:09 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/PRESENTATIONS/2024-09-tpac/2024-09-26-WoT-TPAC-Requirements-McCool.pdf McCool's slides
13:14:40 <luca_barbato> s/uploaded/will upload/
13:15:02 <kaz> s/slides/slides for TPAC (to be updated)/
13:15:40 <kaz> i|Today|-> https://ieeecs-media.computer.org/media/education/swebok/swebok-v4.pdf IEEE SWEBOK (definition of "requirements")
13:15:49 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:15:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/24-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
13:16:08 <luca_barbato> mm: I added added the terminology from the IEEE
13:16:19 <kaz> s/added added/added/
13:17:02 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner
13:18:30 <luca_barbato> ... <maps the concepts from IEEE to Who, What, Why>
13:21:20 <mjk> q?
13:22:15 <luca_barbato> <presents the Template proposal>
13:24:15 <luca_barbato> q+
13:24:40 <kaz> s/Template/Requirements Template/
13:24:54 <luca_barbato> q-
13:25:05 <kaz> q+
13:25:12 <mjk> q+
13:25:13 <luca_barbato> mm: Comments
13:25:41 <luca_barbato> kaz: This is an initial proposal, do we want to do brainstorming on it?
13:26:07 <luca_barbato> mm: Yes, I'd try to collect the outcome in a PR or an Issue
13:27:05 <luca_barbato> <creates a PR on the wot-usecases repo>
13:27:54 <kaz> q+
13:28:29 <kaz> q-
13:28:52 <luca_barbato> mm: We do not have enough people to make a decision, so I'm just preparing the PR
13:29:25 <luca_barbato> q+
13:30:38 <luca_barbato> kaz: It is a bit odd editing wot-usecase from a wot-thing-description call
13:30:51 <luca_barbato> mm: I'm writing the PR as co-chair of the group
13:32:03 <McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/pull/305
13:32:44 <luca_barbato> mm: The TD TF can create a db of user stories and link back to the use-cases
13:33:15 <kaz> s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/pull/305|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/pull/305 wot-usecases PR 305 - Create userstory-requirement.md (as an initial proposal)|
13:33:20 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:33:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/24-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
13:36:43 <McCool> it is up to the TD TF to decide how to organize work items (e.g. PRs/issues/lists in an MD files/assertions) - end state should be an assertion, however (e.g. a feature in the TD specification) for "capabilities".   For Use cases, if one does not exist, it should be created (keep it abstract; don't need a ton of implementation details in use case,
13:36:43 <McCool> it should just state the purpose) and/or a category should be suggested (can be just in the user story, give a definition or link to at least one use case in the "details" section).
13:37:09 <luca_barbato> mm: I can put the above statements in a slide as well
13:37:23 <luca_barbato> mk: It starts to look like a workflow now
13:37:30 <kaz> q+
13:37:49 <kaz> s/it should just state the purpose) and/or a category should be suggested (can be just in the user story, give a definition or link to at least one use case in the "details" section).//
13:38:02 <kaz> s/in use case,/in use case, it should just state the purpose) and/or a category should be suggested (can be just in the user story, give a definition or link to at least one use case in the "details" section)./
13:38:06 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:38:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/24-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
13:38:33 <mjk> ack m
13:38:35 <mjk> q?
13:38:44 <luca_barbato> q-
13:39:18 <luca_barbato> mk: It seems to me that the user-stories aren't fully created as use-cases
13:39:29 <kaz> present+ Jan_Romann
13:40:14 <luca_barbato> mk: We have two templates: Requirements and Use Case
13:43:44 <luca_barbato> lu: Use Case and Requirements are input from outside, Categories is just an internal detail to sort them out
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13:48:27 <kaz> q?
13:48:48 <JKRhb> rrsagent, please draft the minutes
13:48:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/24-wot-td-minutes.html JKRhb
13:49:45 <luca_barbato> lu: Both Use Case and User Stories, no matter who submits them would be good to have the same way to ingest (e.g. Forms) and they should have the same IPR rules since they end up in our repos one way or another
13:50:20 <luca_barbato> kaz: We can focus on the IPR later, better focus on the rest first
13:50:27 <kaz> ack k
13:51:24 <mjk> q?
13:52:03 <kaz> s/We can focus on the IPR later/It seems to me that we're handling two levels of issues at once, (1) terminology of "requirements", "feature requests", etc., and (2) how to describe them based on additional templates. Given we have only 10 more mins, I'd suggest we focus on the first issue today/
13:52:26 <kaz> s/today/today, and talk about the templates and IPR issues later./
13:52:38 <kaz> s/, better focus on the rest first//
13:52:44 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:52:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/24-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
13:53:04 <kaz> q?
13:53:06 <kaz> q+
13:53:53 <kaz> q-
13:54:53 <luca_barbato> kaz: Do we have consensus on the following items?
13:56:43 <kaz> s/on the following items/on the basic direction, e.g., need for clarifying terminology, workflow and templates/
13:57:55 <McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/PRESENTATIONS/2024-10-24-WoT-Requirements-McCool.pdf
13:58:25 <kaz> proposal: TD TF agrees on the need for clarifying the terminology (like "requirements" and "feature requests"), workflow and templates to describe them.
13:59:44 <kaz> proposal: TD TF agrees on the need for clarifying the terminology (like "requirements"), workflow and templates to describe them.
14:00:52 <kaz> [ we're out of time and continue the discussion next week. ]
14:01:06 <kaz> [adjourned]
14:01:11 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:01:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/24-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
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