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14:50:33 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/10/24-pcg-a11y-irc
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14:50:53 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, this will be pcg-a11y
14:50:54 <Zakim> ok, AvneeshSingh
14:50:57 <AvneeshSingh> present+
14:51:07 <AvneeshSingh> chair: AvneeshSingh
14:52:19 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Deadline for feedback for first public draft.
14:52:37 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Harmonizing strings in principles, ONIX techniques and EPUB metadata techniques.
14:52:55 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Explain the metadata workflow in 2.2 · Issue #397
14:53:42 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Issue #437: Can we add a note to mention ONIX technique is applicable to UNIMARC
14:54:02 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Any other business.
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15:01:10 <gpellegrino> present+
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15:01:58 <gautierchomel> present+
15:02:04 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:02:04 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Deadline for feedback for first public draft. -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
15:02:07 <gautierchomel> scribe + gautierchomel
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15:02:27 <CharlesL1> present+
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15:02:39 <rickj> present+
15:02:41 <George> present+
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15:02:48 <rickj> q+
15:02:53 <gautierchomel> AvneeshSingh: proposed deadline november 20th
15:03:01 <AvneeshSingh> ack rick
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15:03:25 <jeffrey_griggs> present+
15:03:39 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:03:39 <gautierchomel> rickj: we have a number of small changes. I would love if possible to have a second public draft, asap, so we can review something more up to date.
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15:04:22 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:04:27 <gautierchomel> CharlesL1: we could, yes there were a lot of impromvements.
15:04:46 <gautierchomel> AvneeshSingh: the question is does the editors have the bandwith?
15:05:09 <gautierchomel> gpellegrino: I'm travelling but i see no problem. We have a publishing script to ease the process
15:05:19 <George> George has joined #pcg-a11y
15:06:04 <gpellegrino> actual URL: https://w3c.github.io/publ-a11y/UX-Guide-Metadata/2.0/principles/
15:06:17 <rickj> +1 to end of Nov deadline
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15:07:10 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:07:44 <gautierchomel> George: before thanksgiving break would be good. Too much time tends to push to backlist of todos. We want to be on the frontlist.
15:08:08 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:08:15 <rickj> modifying my +1 to agree with George on Tuesday Nov. 26
15:08:33 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:08:33 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Harmonizing strings in principles, ONIX techniques and EPUB metadata techniques. -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
15:08:44 <gautierchomel> AvneeshSingh: let's publish an incremented draft and let until november 26th for feedbacks.
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15:09:03 <Madeleine> present +
15:09:11 <AvneeshSingh> Principles: https://w3c.github.io/publ-a11y/UX-Guide-Metadata/draft/principles/?updated
15:09:21 <AvneeshSingh> ONIX metadata techniques: https://w3c.github.io/publ-a11y/UX-Guide-Metadata/draft/techniques/onix-metadata/index.html
15:09:30 <AvneeshSingh> EPUB metadata techniques: https://w3c.github.io/publ-a11y/UX-Guide-Metadata/draft/techniques/epub-metadata/index.html
15:11:49 <gautierchomel> George: short summary. We want to harmonize the strings in principles and techniques. We decided to have statements without period at the end. All exemples are identified by a data ID so we can have more than one per document. each data ID is a Key in the JSON with Compact and Descriptive variants.
15:12:07 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:12:31 <gpellegrino> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/blob/main/UX-Guide-Metadata/draft/localizations/crosscheck%20strings%20epub-onix-canonical_json.xlsx
15:13:06 <gautierchomel> the xlsx file is here to check that everything is aligned
15:13:20 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:13:40 <gautierchomel> AvneeshSingh: do we want to push the JSON in the next draft ?
15:14:07 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:14:13 <gautierchomel> rickj: I don't need a JSON file until it's a final one.
15:14:54 <gautierchomel> George: one big issue is about legal consideration. We're misisng more comments.
15:15:02 <gautierchomel> q+
15:15:05 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:15:16 <gpellegrino> q+
15:15:20 <gautierchomel> rickj: we assume that anything we get here will be for our internal use
15:15:24 <gpellegrino> scribe+
15:16:45 <gpellegrino> gautierchomel: I think we had feedback in GitHub, saying this information should not be displayed, publishers will not use the metadata if something is displayed
15:17:10 <gpellegrino> ... I think we had an agreement on a string proposed by Chris Saynor
15:17:32 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:17:41 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:17:46 <gpellegrino> issue: https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/issues/350
15:18:18 <gpellegrino> ... to me the general statement is a good compromise
15:18:35 <gpellegrino> ... and provides a good level of security
15:18:44 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
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15:19:23 <gpellegrino> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/pull/355
15:19:33 <rickj> q+
15:19:37 <gautierchomel> gpellegrino: proposed wording was This title benefit from an exemption or exception to legal provision of accessible publication.
15:19:46 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:19:55 <AvneeshSingh> ack rick
15:20:25 <gautierchomel> q+
15:20:26 <Chris_ONIX> q+
15:20:40 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:20:48 <gautierchomel> rickj: US ADA Title 2 causes questions about those exemptions being too EAA oriented. We need a more neutral statement.
15:21:16 <gpellegrino> gautierchomel: I agree with Rick, that's why we need a string that is really neutral
15:21:40 <rickj> q+
15:21:40 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:21:42 <gpellegrino> ... do we want multiple statements, one for each legislation?
15:21:50 <gpellegrino> ... or one for all?
15:22:05 <CharlesL1> q+
15:22:50 <gautierchomel> Chris_ONIX: I would argue for a very general statement, not market dedicated.
15:22:54 <AvneeshSingh> ack rick
15:22:58 <gautierchomel> Chris_ONIX: I'll make wording proposals.
15:23:26 <gautierchomel> rickj: My understanding is that Title 2 has no exemption. It's WCAG AA or not.
15:23:56 <AvneeshSingh> ack charl
15:24:40 <gautierchomel> CharlesL1: there are exceptions in title 2 like archival purpose. But we don't have it in metadata. But exceptions can exist in other markets later.
15:25:27 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:25:42 <Chris_ONIX> q+
15:26:35 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:26:37 <gautierchomel> George: we need to be global in our guidance. are we thinking tthat the techniques would identify a string to trigger a suggested display, or it is a statement that a publisher could make? Is it binary or per metadata?
15:27:51 <rickj> q+
15:27:53 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:28:35 <AvneeshSingh> ack rick
15:28:44 <gautierchomel> Chris_ONIX: three onix codes are very precise, thta's not what we want to show. It's for the use of regulatory. I would think that any of those three codes triggers one same sentence.
15:29:03 <gpellegrino> q+
15:29:03 <CharlesL1> q+
15:29:23 <gautierchomel> rickj: the purpose of those legal metadata is for enforcement. Displaying it will probably confuse the UX.
15:29:27 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:30:04 <gautierchomel> gpellegrino: it may be beneficial for users to know that before they trigger a legal action for a non accessible publication.
15:30:36 <AvneeshSingh> ack charle
15:31:02 <gautierchomel> AvneeshSingh: concrete exemple, MTM sweden, regulator authority receive complains from consumers.
15:31:49 <gautierchomel> q+
15:32:17 <gautierchomel> q-
15:33:41 <gautierchomel> gautierchomel: as a customer i can complain even in case of exemption.
15:34:21 <gautierchomel> George: agree, and also agree we need a general statement.
15:34:42 <rickj> my suggestion: https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/issues/350#issuecomment-2435623920
15:35:57 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:36:12 <gautierchomel> CharlesL1: we have a placeholder in the techniques so we can easily trigger one common string or one for each.
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15:36:51 <gautierchomel> George: so we want this in our next release.
15:36:58 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:36:58 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Explain the metadata workflow in 2.2 · Issue #397 -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
15:37:42 <AvneeshSingh> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/issues/397
15:37:51 <AvneeshSingh> Fixed at: https://w3c.github.io/publ-a11y/UX-Guide-Metadata/draft/principles/?updated#processing-guide
15:39:53 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:40:13 <Chris_ONIX> q+
15:40:20 <gautierchomel> mgarrish: we clarified the diagram and enriched it with PDF and MARC references to make it clear it applies to any file and metadata format. This is a visualisation of how the reference and techniques work together to provide a common user experience described by the Principles. An overview of this document set. We are happy to continue to refine if someone has suggestions.
15:40:25 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:40:41 <rickj> updating the image now!
15:41:00 <gautierchomel> Chris_ONIX: minor thing, it should be ONIX record instead of Code LIst. Apart from that, it's good.
15:41:14 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:41:39 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:41:39 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Issue #437: Can we add a note to mention ONIX technique is applicable to UNIMARC -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
15:41:59 <AvneeshSingh> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/issues/437
15:42:23 <gpellegrino> gautierchomel: Christofer Carr requested for a delay with this issue
15:42:25 <ccarr> q+
15:42:44 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:43:45 <gautierchomel> ccarr: we presented ONIX mapping to IFLA commitee, editors of UNIMARC had questions, so we want to clarify with them. We get back to you as soon as.
15:44:35 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:44:43 <gautierchomel> AvneeshSingh: 14th is daisy board, we have to push our next meeting to 21th.
15:45:02 <gautierchomel> AvneeshSingh: it fits the feedback deadline.
15:45:29 <gautierchomel> AvneeshSingh: editors will work in the meanwhile.
15:46:27 <AvneeshSingh> rrsagent, make minutes
15:46:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/24-pcg-a11y-minutes.html AvneeshSingh
15:46:37 <AvneeshSingh> rrsagent, make logs public
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15:47:46 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, leave
15:47:46 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been AvneeshSingh, gpellegrino, gautierchomel, CharlesL, rickj, George, jeffrey_griggs
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