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14:46:58 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/10/24-did-irc
14:47:02 <Wip> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:47:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/24-did-minutes.html Wip
14:47:09 <Wip> rrsagent, make logs public
14:47:20 <Wip> Meeting: Decentralized Identifier Working Group
14:47:27 <Wip> Chair: Will Abramson
14:47:41 <Wip> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-did-wg/2024Oct/0025.html
14:47:49 <Wip> present+
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15:00:34 <ChristopherA> ChristopherA has joined #did
15:00:46 <ChristopherA> present+
15:01:12 <ivan> present+
15:02:17 <JoeAndrieu> JoeAndrieu has joined #did
15:02:25 <pchampin> present+
15:03:12 <JoeAndrieu> present+
15:04:40 <swcurran> swcurran has joined #did
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15:05:56 <swcurran> present+
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15:06:15 <danpape> present+
15:06:18 <KevinDean> present+
15:06:25 <danpape> scribe+
15:06:31 <swcurran> Is there as guide to how to scribe?
15:06:59 <KevinDean> https://w3c.github.io/scribe2/scribedoc.html
15:07:04 <danpape> q?
15:07:20 <Wip> Topic: Agenda Review
15:07:29 <TallTed> present+
15:07:48 <manu> q+ to cover other procedural items
15:08:12 <Wip> ack manu
15:08:12 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to cover other procedural items
15:08:53 <Wip> Topic: Update on Procedural Items
15:09:03 <danpape> manu: controller document seems to be ready to transition to candidate recommendation.
15:09:23 <manu> https://w3c.github.io/controller-document/
15:09:31 <danpape> manu: will meet after IIW to look at next steps.
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15:10:00 <JennieM> present+
15:10:01 <danpape> manu: once in CR, we can start to modify DID Core Rec.
15:10:07 <manu> Poll to rename Controller Document specification: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-wg/2024Oct/0017.html
15:10:30 <danpape> manu: poll will be open for next three weeks.
15:10:37 <ChristopherA> q+ to ask about latest changes to vc controller potential CR.
15:10:46 <Wip> ack ChristopherA
15:10:46 <Zakim> ChristopherA, you wanted to ask about latest changes to vc controller potential CR.
15:11:01 <manu> q+ to respond to ChristopherA
15:11:22 <Wip> ack manu
15:11:22 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to respond to ChristopherA
15:11:41 <swcurran> The email yesterday says one vote per VCWG member.  Not DID WG Members?
15:11:42 <danpape> manu: TAG taking issues with DID spec
15:12:11 <ChristopherA> q+ to ask about CBOR note for controller documents
15:12:46 <danpape> manu: we have been dealing with the issues and no major comments yet
15:13:45 <danpape> manu: we want to point them to DID Use cases doc, but there is requirements section with 21 points, but controller document only meets 10 of them.
15:14:19 <danpape> manu: but this group shoudn't be worried about it too much.
15:14:38 <danpape> christopherA: Did abstract syntax model come up?
15:14:57 <danpape> manu: not really
15:15:47 <Wip> q?
15:15:51 <Wip> ack ChristopherA
15:15:51 <Zakim> ChristopherA, you wanted to ask about CBOR note for controller documents
15:16:01 <danpape> ... we added some clarifications that seemed good, they want semantics to be clean, but they didn't ask we take the ADM out.
15:16:36 <danpape> christopherA: is there sufficient interest in this community to work on CBOR for controller docs?
15:16:47 <manu> q+
15:16:54 <Wip> ack manu
15:17:07 <danpape> manu: we could put it in DID core, but not really the best place.
15:17:07 <markus_sabadello> markus_sabadello has joined #did
15:17:19 <JoeAndrieu> q+ to say I think it's a new spec
15:17:23 <Wip> ack JoeAndrieu
15:17:23 <Zakim> JoeAndrieu, you wanted to say I think it's a new spec
15:17:31 <manu> Agree with Joe that it's a new spec.
15:17:38 <manu> q+
15:17:41 <danpape> JoeAndrieu: want to caution to put it in DID core. should be its own spec.
15:17:53 <Wip> ack manu
15:18:24 <danpape> manu: should just create an issue in DID core to track it, not put text in the spec.
15:18:26 <Wip> Topic: IETF Announcement
15:19:16 <manu> q+ to note I can't make next two weeks.
15:19:19 <danpape> wip: should we participate in the IETF meeting?
15:19:21 <ChristopherA> q+
15:19:24 <Wip> ack manu
15:19:24 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to note I can't make next two weeks.
15:19:37 <danpape> manu: I will be out the next two weeks.
15:19:42 <Wip> ack ChristopherA
15:20:13 <danpape> ChristopherA: I will be there. if we cancel too much, we will lose what interest we have.
15:20:23 <JoeAndrieu> q+
15:20:40 <manu> APAC is important, we should keep those meetings (long term).
15:20:43 <danpape> ... hard to keep APAC folks updated without manu?
15:20:45 <Wip> ack JoeAndrieu
15:21:00 <danpape> JoeAndrieu: I will also be there.
15:21:22 <KevinDean> KevinDean has joined #did
15:21:27 <KevinDean> present+
15:22:42 <Wip> Topic: DID Extensions
15:23:07 <pchampin> s/I will be there./I will attend the APAC meeting.
15:23:15 <danpape> Wip: we want to talk about DID extensions on a more regular basis.
15:23:36 <danpape> ... how can we lead that discussion?
15:23:46 <JoeAndrieu> q+ to bring up semantic overreach: properties changing how we interpret path, query, and fragment parts.
15:23:52 <Wip> ack JoeAndrieu
15:23:52 <Zakim> JoeAndrieu, you wanted to bring up semantic overreach: properties changing how we interpret path, query, and fragment parts.
15:24:40 <markus_sabadello> q+
15:24:42 <ChristopherA> q+
15:24:44 <Wip> ack markus_sabadello
15:24:49 <danpape> JoeAndrieu: we have properties in the extensions for path parts. might be a bad idea, we need to be clear about different url parts.
15:25:15 <danpape> markus_sabadello: it might be too late for that, especially regarding other parameters.
15:25:24 <danpape> ... I talked about that in my TPAC presentation.
15:25:36 <manu> q+ to speak to "too late"
15:25:51 <Wip> ack ChristopherA
15:25:53 <danpape> ... sometimes parameters affect resolution, sometimes other processing as well.
15:26:33 <danpape> ChristopherA: seems like we need hints for resolution mechanism in the extenstions. Maybe hints for the resolver.
15:26:35 <markus_sabadello> q+
15:26:52 <danpape> ... resolver instructions and requests for data should be separate.
15:27:21 <Wip> ack manu
15:27:21 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to speak to "too late"
15:27:28 <danpape> manu: agree, that makes sense.
15:28:30 <danpape> ... re: "too late to do this". There are features we get criticism for. We should try to establish some defaults for how to interpret DID methods.
15:28:49 <pchampin> q+
15:28:53 <JoeAndrieu> q+ we still have issues of conflict when two extensions are both present, but each have different interpretations of a URL part
15:29:03 <danpape> ... worth talking about all the many interpretations. does it harm our ecosystem?
15:29:03 <JoeAndrieu> q+  to say we still have issues of conflict when two extensions are both present, but each have different interpretations of a URL part
15:29:36 <ChristopherA> q+ what does those people using VC controller want?
15:29:46 <ChristopherA> q+ to ask what does those people using VC controller want?
15:29:52 <danpape> ... I don't think we are too late for some did methods that don't have much deployment yet. we should tighten up text around paths and parameters.
15:30:10 <danpape> Wip: this is important discussion, how to we track this?
15:30:15 <Wip> ack markus_sabadello
15:30:20 <danpape> ChristopherA: I will start an issue for us.
15:30:56 <danpape> markus_sabadello: there are also issues on dereferencing. I should break up some of the larger issues and make new smaller ones.
15:30:58 <Wip> zakim, close the queue
15:30:58 <Zakim> ok, Wip, the speaker queue is closed
15:31:49 <danpape> ... we created matrix params years ago, we wanted to try to keep things separate between parameters for identifiers.
15:32:07 <Wip> ack pchampin
15:32:10 <danpape> ... maybe we can categorize params in the registration group.
15:32:30 <danpape> pchampin: default behavior sounds good to me.
15:32:59 <Wip> ack JoeAndrieu
15:32:59 <Zakim> JoeAndrieu, you wanted to say we still have issues of conflict when two extensions are both present, but each have different interpretations of a URL part
15:33:03 <danpape> pchampin: I won't be reassured to hear that DID methods could override default behavior.  may hurt interop.
15:33:50 <Wip> ack ChristopherA
15:33:50 <Zakim> ChristopherA, you wanted to ask what does those people using VC controller want?
15:33:57 <danpape> JoeAndrieu: we want to make it easy to share properties. maybe explore markus's idea about categrories.
15:34:26 <danpape> ChristopherA: want to ask manu if we talk about non DID community, do they want something from controller docs?
15:34:36 <danpape> manu: they just want clearly defined https urls
15:35:01 <danpape> ... activitypub have "active documents"
15:35:08 <Wip> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/did-extensions/issues/565
15:35:19 <ChristopherA> I just added https://github.com/w3c/did-extensions/issues/582
15:35:31 <Wip> zakim, open the queue
15:35:31 <Zakim> ok, Wip, the speaker queue is open
15:36:00 <danpape> ChristopherA: in issue 565, there is some recent discussion about TPAC slides and meeting notes.
15:36:23 <danpape> ... I want to note we didn't formally accept anything from the proposal.
15:36:37 <danpape> ... there was consensus to do some exploration.
15:37:18 <danpape> ... to recap: we want to avoid name collisions; simple spec requirements; we called them provisional, but we need a PR to renew provision.
15:37:51 <danpape> ... some proposal for an official w3c registry.
15:38:26 <danpape> ... Big thing missing: Joe's issue 569. We have a goal to avoid name collisions, but maybe that shouldn't be a requirement.
15:38:52 <KevinDean> KevinDean has joined #did
15:38:55 <danpape> ... Is there anything we want to firm up or get consensus on?
15:39:01 <manu> q+
15:39:01 <danpape> .. any action items?
15:39:07 <Wip> ack manu
15:39:36 <danpape> manu: we need to move this forward. most pressing: create a new view for DID methods.
15:40:02 <danpape> ... people say: too many DID methods. can we clean up abandoned ones?
15:40:18 <ChristopherA> q+ to ask if we should just initially add one or more field to the method json.
15:40:24 <danpape> ... maybe say after a period of time, we need to see an implementation. No spec-only methods.
15:40:47 <danpape> ... perhaps we need to see a resolver that works? maybe a driver for universal resolver.
15:41:12 <JoeAndrieu> fyi, 200 methods today
15:41:19 <danpape> ... we need a higher bar on methods that we show?
15:41:52 <JoeAndrieu> q+ to mention white pages semantics
15:41:56 <danpape> ... I am concerned about negative thoughts if our registry has different methods for the same DID method name.
15:42:21 <KevinDean> q+
15:42:41 <danpape> ... if we allow it, then maybe a duplicate method needs to have a concreate implementation. or at least more concrete than the previous method.
15:42:53 <Wip> ack ChristopherA
15:42:53 <Zakim> ChristopherA, you wanted to ask if we should just initially add one or more field to the method json.
15:43:19 <danpape> ChristopherA: do we want to change this all at once? maybe just add a few field to method's JSON entry.
15:43:32 <danpape> ... if you don't update, we will remove your old method.
15:43:37 <Wip> ack JoeAndrieu
15:43:37 <Zakim> JoeAndrieu, you wanted to mention white pages semantics
15:44:10 <danpape> JoeAndrieu: speak to better semantics: let's call it a white pages? no worries there about duplicates.
15:44:20 <Wip> q+
15:44:45 <Wip> ack KevinDean
15:44:46 <danpape> ... I don't care about people who want centralized registries. we are all about decentralization.
15:44:56 <danpape> KevinDean: +1 to Joe
15:44:57 <manu> Yes, Joe's arguments for why allowing multiple registrations do resonate with me.
15:45:23 <Wip> ack Wip
15:45:25 <swcurran> -1 to Joe.  We want decentralized identifiers primarily, decentralized DID methods secondarily
15:45:34 <danpape> ... but it should be ok for developers of methods to not be production ready yet.
15:46:02 <Wip> q?
15:46:03 <manu> q+
15:46:06 <Wip> ack manu
15:46:07 <danpape> Wip: we should encourage method owners to start making implementations.
15:46:32 <danpape> manu: I'd be fine if we add expiration date on method specs without an implementation
15:46:46 <swcurran> +1 for expiration.  Could also have a second list in the registry of deprecated methods.
15:46:47 <ChristopherA> q+ to ask "can get consensus to just add expiration date"?
15:46:56 <danpape> ... we could do it automatically. give people six months to reply or submit something.
15:47:32 <danpape> ... maybe we sort results in registry by most recently updated
15:47:41 <danpape> ... but that might not get us to where we want to be.
15:48:04 <swcurran> +1 to manu
15:48:25 <danpape> ... let's propose adding expiration date.
15:48:26 <Wip> ack ChristopherA
15:48:26 <Zakim> ChristopherA, you wanted to ask "can get consensus to just add expiration date"?
15:48:35 <JoeAndrieu> registration/update?
15:48:42 <danpape> ChristopherA: +1
15:49:08 <ivan> q+
15:49:09 <danpape> ChristopherA: however, we need to address larger problem. people need to fix and update their specs.
15:49:14 <Wip> ack ivan
15:49:15 <KevinDean> q+
15:49:33 <manu> q+ to note that we can discuss that in another proposal :)
15:49:50 <Wip> ack KevinDean
15:49:50 <danpape> ivan: we should say more about what update means. do they just have to change the date, or should be make substantial updates?
15:50:00 <ChristopherA> q+ to answer Ivan
15:50:26 <danpape> KevinDean: I am concerned about governance about this. managing expiration dates is out of scope of our group.
15:50:30 <ivan> q+
15:50:36 <Wip> ack manu
15:50:36 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to note that we can discuss that in another proposal :)
15:50:55 <danpape> manu: unfortunately, we are well down that path.
15:51:07 <KevinDean> q+
15:51:08 <danpape> ... (managing dates)
15:51:56 <danpape> ... I tried to keep my draft proposal above to be simple incremental progress.
15:52:08 <danpape> ... does require more discussion.
15:52:19 <danpape> Wip: let's talk about this next time.
15:52:29 <Wip> ack ChristopherA
15:52:29 <Zakim> ChristopherA, you wanted to answer Ivan
15:52:34 <Wip> zakim, close the queue
15:52:34 <Zakim> ok, Wip, the speaker queue is closed
15:53:00 <danpape> ChristopherA: two things: we have volunteers to deal with expiratin dates (CCG, manu)
15:53:34 <danpape> ... want to let ivan know that manu is proposing last updated date, not an expiration date.
15:53:56 <Wip> ack ivan
15:53:58 <danpape> ... we can automate the filtering of the method list.
15:54:26 <danpape> ivan: I'm not opposed to last updated. however, I'm uneasy about sticking in things without clear semantics.
15:54:32 <Wip> ack KevinDean
15:55:10 <danpape> KevinDean: I don't have problem with how things are today. But I'm worried about long-term. what happens years down the line if methods aren't updated?
15:55:25 <Wip> Topic: DID Resolution
15:55:36 <markus_sabadello> https://github.com/w3c/did-resolution/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Adiscuss
15:55:45 <danpape> markus_sabadello: please see above link
15:56:17 <danpape> ... there are four initial feedback issues. we need to check if there are other topics and possibly split them up.
15:56:25 <swcurran> present-
15:56:53 <danpape> Wip: the issues seem broad. we need people to look at them and help split them.
15:57:16 <markus_sabadello> https://github.com/w3c/did-resolution/issues/8
15:57:42 <danpape> markus_sabadello: issue 8 is six years old, but could be interesting to look at
15:58:09 <danpape> ... this one talks about linking DIDs to domain names, other things too.
15:58:21 <danpape> ... this could be a topic at IIW next week.
15:58:39 <danpape> ... should we add any of that language to DID resolution spec?
15:59:02 <danpape> ... or at least we make the spec flexible enough to support it.
15:59:13 <danpape> Wip: good discussion today.
15:59:24 <danpape> ... next week is APAC meething time.
15:59:25 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:59:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/24-did-minutes.html pchampin
16:02:47 <manu> s|present-||
16:02:54 <manu> rrsagent, make minutes
16:02:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/24-did-minutes.html manu
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