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14:10:46 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF - Slot 1
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14:16:05 <kaz> chair: Ege
14:16:29 <EgeKorkan> do you hear me?
14:16:45 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Daniel_Peintner, Kunihiko_Toumura, Luca_Barbato, Michael_Koster, Jan_Romann, Tomoaki_Mizushima
14:17:27 <kaz> s/do you hear me?//
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14:17:31 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
14:17:40 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:17:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/23-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:17:48 <mahda> mahda has joined #wot-td
14:17:52 <mahda> present+ Mahda_Noura
14:18:40 <kaz> regrets+ Cristiano
14:18:43 <kaz> topic: Logistics
14:18:49 <kaz> ek: regrets from Cristiano
14:18:58 <kaz> ... can't make tomorrow's meeting
14:19:12 <kaz> ... but Koster will moderate the discussion on TD use cases
14:19:20 <kaz> ... McCool also will join
14:20:03 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#October_23-24%2C_2024
14:20:06 <kaz> topic: Minutes
14:20:16 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2024/10/17-wot-td-minutes.html Oct-17
14:20:22 <kaz> ek: already reviewed yesterday
14:20:38 <kaz> ... (goes through the minutes)
14:20:54 <kaz> ... don't see any issues
14:20:59 <kaz> (approved)
14:21:17 <kaz> topic: Initial Connection
14:21:36 <kaz> subtopic: PR 2040
14:21:50 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/2040 PR 2040 - Initial/Common Connection Container Proposal
14:21:59 <kaz> ek: need discussion on the terminology
14:22:33 <kaz> ... also some concerns from myself and Luca
14:23:17 <kaz> ... (shows the changes)
14:25:25 <kaz> present+ Mahda_Noura
14:25:33 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:25:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/23-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:26:20 <kaz> ... (specifically, the "basichttp2" section within the example TD)
14:26:53 <kaz> lb: there is no additional logic
14:27:08 <kaz> ... computationally, my proposal would not add anything
14:27:33 <kaz> [[
14:27:38 <kaz> Luca's comment on GitHub:
14:27:40 <kaz> op can be left unset as any other field, but a TD can have it set if most of its affordances have the same op.
14:27:40 <kaz> The problem with circular references has to be tackled already because of ComboSecurityScheme so there is no additional logic needed, just has to be applied to one more item.
14:27:41 <kaz> ]]
14:28:47 <kaz> lb: if the field is missing, local default to be applied
14:29:17 <kaz> ek: but we need to be careful about possible special cases
14:29:19 <kaz> q+
14:29:35 <kaz> ... basically need to define those values
14:30:20 <kaz> ... if you have two bases, one for read and another for write...
14:30:33 <kaz> lb: you want to have a set of values
14:30:49 <kaz> ... you need an actual base for write or read
14:31:09 <kaz> ... I'm not seeing big problems with this direction
14:31:34 <kaz> ek: think the mistake is already existing
14:32:09 <kaz> ... so ok with this direction
14:32:28 <kaz> kaz: in that case, we need further clarification within the spec text?
14:32:45 <mjk> q?
14:32:58 <kaz> ek: we can go this direction and document what kind of combination to be avoided
14:33:03 <kaz> q-
14:33:11 <kaz> kaz: using some even clearer text?
14:33:13 <kaz> ek: right
14:33:31 <kaz> ... I just have one thing to mention
14:33:38 <kaz> ... talked with Matthias before this call
14:34:00 <kaz> ... about [[ "reusable": false ]]
14:34:06 <luca_barbato> q+
14:34:07 <mjk> q+
14:34:08 <kaz> ... can be deduced from binding
14:34:38 <kaz> q?
14:34:44 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:34:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/23-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:35:08 <kaz> lb: one problem is
14:35:16 <kaz> ... all the protocols we support
14:35:31 <kaz> ... the usability can be confirmed by the server side
14:35:44 <kaz> ... if not enough resource, can be disconnected
14:36:14 <kaz> ... we'd like the consumer to play nicely
14:36:23 <kaz> ... could have some hint for that purpose
14:36:58 <kaz> ... none of the underlying transport has this problem
14:37:11 <kaz> ... one of the two sides, client and server
14:37:18 <kaz> s/one/none/
14:37:56 <kaz> ... if you use TCP, we can tell it's to be closed
14:38:25 <kaz> ... we'd like to have a situation the consumer can keep the connection open
14:38:34 <kaz> ... like WebSocket
14:38:56 <kaz> ... but it's up to the consumer
14:39:27 <kaz> ... if you want to support for persistent connection like that, it's protocol-specific
14:39:40 <kaz> ... it's not something we deal with the TD spec itself
14:39:54 <kaz> ... we can make room for that direction as hint
14:40:08 <kaz> ... can be completely ignored
14:40:31 <kaz> ... client can open as many connections as possible at once
14:40:41 <kaz> ... but the server needs to handle that
14:41:01 <kaz> ek: ok
14:41:13 <EgeKorkan> q?
14:41:14 <kaz> ... more than what the TD spec to handle
14:41:17 <EgeKorkan> ack l
14:41:24 <kaz> mjk: small question
14:41:32 <kaz> ... more than one "op"
14:41:38 <kaz> ... is that just an array?
14:41:40 <luca_barbato> q+
14:41:58 <kaz> ... can I do that?
14:42:25 <mjk> ack m
14:42:33 <kaz> lb: this is something to be handled orthogonally
14:42:42 <kaz> ... we discussed hat one year ago
14:43:38 <kaz> ... JSON doesn't work well with arrays for data preservation
14:44:31 <kaz> ek: arrays are already used for "@context", etc....
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14:44:51 <kaz> lb: if that's the case, array might be a possible solution
14:45:06 <kaz> ek: (updates the GitHub comments)
14:46:34 <EgeKorkan> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/2040#issuecomment-2432473561
14:46:46 <kaz> ek: another point is
14:46:47 <luca_barbato> Looked up https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7159.html, arrays are sorted indeed
14:47:10 <kaz> ... regarding form defaults
14:47:57 <EgeKorkan> https://spec.openapis.org/oas/v3.1.0.html#components-object
14:48:47 <kaz> ek: (refers to the OpenAPI spec v3.1.0)
14:49:35 <kaz> ... (specifically, "4.8.7 Components Object" section)
14:49:57 <dape> q+
14:50:18 <kaz> ack l
14:50:27 <kaz> ... would show some example
14:50:39 <kaz> dp: could we do both?
14:50:49 <kaz> ... or just one like OpenAPI?
14:51:32 <kaz> ek: like the Components Object from OpenAPI
14:51:47 <luca_barbato> q+
14:52:02 <kaz> ... pack everything so that we can reuse them
14:52:04 <kaz> q+
14:52:06 <kaz> ack d
14:52:18 <dape> q+
14:52:52 <kaz> lb: beautiful part of that is accepting the same term
14:53:59 <kaz> ek: (add some example to "usability-and-design.md")
14:54:15 <kaz> -> @@@
14:54:55 <kaz> lb: "security" appears at different places in the example
14:55:24 <kaz> s|@@@|https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/blob/main/planning/work-items/usability-and-design.md usability-and-design.md|
14:55:54 <kaz> ... should be "securityDefinitions" and "security"
14:56:20 <kaz> ek: (fixes the example)
14:56:43 <kaz> ... (also adds a subsection of "additionalResponse")
14:56:45 <EgeKorkan> q?
14:56:49 <kaz> ack l
14:57:27 <kaz> kaz: a bit confused
14:58:12 <kaz> ... what we're doing now is (1) borrowing some ideas from OpenAPI or (2) better compatibility with OpenAPI?
14:58:17 <kaz> ek: the former now
14:58:24 <kaz> kaz: think we should think about the latter too
14:58:30 <kaz> q-
14:58:42 <kaz> dp: it's clear now
14:59:15 <kaz> ... it's grouping of several "connectionDefinitions" entries
14:59:31 <kaz> ( basichttp1, basichttp2 and broker)
15:00:06 <kaz> ek: now would like to discuss the content
15:00:46 <kaz> q+
15:00:51 <EgeKorkan> acl d
15:00:51 <kaz> ack d
15:00:52 <dape> ack dape
15:01:35 <kaz> kaz: we need to clarify the processing algorithm
15:02:00 <kaz> ... e.g., commonDefinitions will be overridden by each definition specified later
15:02:08 <kaz> ek: yeah
15:02:18 <kaz> ... (updates the GitHub comments)
15:02:43 <kaz> ... should "security" in the root lever be conserved
15:02:59 <kaz> ... but how do we handle "inline security" improvements that were collected by Jan?
15:03:24 <kaz> ... the names of the new terms should be also discussed, e.g., "commonDefinitions"
15:03:30 <EgeKorkan> q?
15:03:32 <EgeKorkan> ack k
15:04:10 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/2040#issuecomment-2432473561 updated comments
15:04:26 <kaz> ek: would have a resolution about this next week
15:04:38 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:04:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/23-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:05:08 <kaz> [adjourned]
15:05:10 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:05:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/23-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
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