13:58:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #adapt
13:58:13 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/10/22-adapt-irc
13:58:13 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:58:14 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), janina
13:59:46 <janina> agenda+ Introduction, logistics, updates as needed
13:59:46 <janina> *   agenda+ Symbols
13:59:46 <janina> agenda+ Well Known Destinations
13:59:46 <janina> agenda+ Recruitment
13:59:52 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger has joined #Adapt
14:02:14 <Abhinav> Abhinav has joined #adapt
14:02:55 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+
14:03:32 <janina>  present+
14:03:41 <Abhinav> present+
14:03:42 <janina> Meeting: WAI-Adapt Weekly Teleconference
14:03:49 <janina> date: 22 Oct 2024
14:03:57 <janina> Chair: Lionel_Wolberger
14:03:59 <Lionel_Wolberger> scribe+
14:04:40 <janina> regrets: analu
14:05:38 <matatk> matatk has joined #adapt
14:05:43 <Russell> Russell has joined #adapt
14:05:46 <matatk> present+
14:06:13 <Lionel_Wolberger> agenda?
14:07:12 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
14:07:12 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Introduction, logistics, updates as needed -- taken up [from janina]
14:07:15 <matatk> present+
14:07:36 <Russell> present+
14:07:53 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
14:07:53 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, Lionel_Wolberger
14:07:57 <matatk> zakim, close this item
14:07:57 <Zakim> agendum 1 closed
14:07:58 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:07:58 <Zakim> 2. Well Known Destinations [from janina]
14:08:02 <matatk> zakim, next item
14:08:02 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Well Known Destinations -- taken up [from janina]
14:08:10 <matatk> scribe+
14:08:45 <matatk> janina: Spoke with Rachael and Lisa; Rachael is keen for us to pursue this work. Lisa suggests starting with previous destinations supported by original prototype.
14:09:01 <matatk> q+
14:09:33 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack matatk
14:10:12 <janina> scribe+
14:10:18 <Lionel_Wolberger> matatk: have begun the action. Merged the current explainers.
14:10:27 <janina> Also, Rachael supports Accessibility Statement destination
14:10:29 <Lionel_Wolberger> rrsagent, make minutes
14:10:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/22-adapt-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
14:11:14 <Abhinav> q+
14:11:25 <Lionel_Wolberger> matatk: In that action I will have updated explainers (now that the pre-TPAC explainers are tagged properly)
14:11:53 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... COGA would like a method to indicate the type of resource. E.g., COGA sees different types of help as distinct
14:12:09 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... example, human help vs chatbot help
14:12:15 <janina> What about something like: Help_Personal; Help_Contextual, Help_General
14:12:38 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack Abhinav
14:16:46 <janina> q+ to comment on user benefit of wkd
14:17:27 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: Let's return to the primary use case here
14:18:03 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... as a WWW user, I have in mind a well known destination, such as "login". On visiting a site, with Adapt report/specification in place
14:18:36 <matatk> q+ to ask about distractions
14:18:41 <matatk> ack janina
14:18:41 <Zakim> janina, you wanted to comment on user benefit of wkd
14:18:46 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... I will have a method to invoke that will lead me to the "login", whether on 'huge-etailer.com' or 'joes-bagels.com'
14:19:57 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: With an adjustment. The driving COGA use case is to minimize distractions.
14:20:15 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... the modern WWW is loaded with things that distract people with cognitive disabilities
14:20:32 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... it would help to highlight the focus task, and graying out the distractions
14:20:40 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... login is one. Finding the help you need is another.
14:20:44 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
14:20:57 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... and accessibility statement is highly desirable.
14:21:22 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... COGA brings our focus to distractions. Those users literally cannot login, due to the distractions
14:21:40 <Lionel_Wolberger> matatk: Distractions and navigation.
14:22:10 <Lionel_Wolberger> matatk: ... are two distinct use cases. Some implementations may help with both at the same time
14:23:06 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... filtering out items in a document fragment is another challenge
14:23:40 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... distractions, we have found in the course of running this task force, are subjective
14:23:50 <janina> q+
14:24:04 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... I suggest, if we address distractions, we keep in mind these challenges when we approach that topic
14:24:17 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... I believe the TF turned towards navigation in response to these challenges
14:24:26 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack matatk
14:24:26 <Zakim> matatk, you wanted to ask about distractions
14:24:55 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack, janina
14:25:04 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack janina
14:25:10 <matatk> matatk has joined #adapt
14:25:20 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
14:25:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/22-adapt-minutes.html matatk
14:26:21 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: In large part, agree
14:26:29 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
14:27:34 <matatk> I think this may be the feature Janina is referring to wrt Safari: https://support.apple.com/en-la/120682
14:28:07 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: Both are similar, just different ways of getting at it
14:28:09 <Lionel_Wolberger> q+
14:28:16 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack Lionel_Wolberger
14:29:00 <matatk> Lionel_Wolberger: I appreciate the deep thinking behind your seeing them as two paths to the same goal. Maybe the way I stated it was too implementation-based, and not classic use case language.
14:29:43 <matatk> ... But that said, I don't find them similar. I love the challenge of limiting distractions, or implementing simplification - it's one of the first things I got excited about when joining this TF. And since then we've seen things like ChatGPT do summaries of content.
14:30:14 <janina> q+
14:30:40 <matatk> ... But I find them very different use cases. I didn't recall that we turned to navigation because we couldn't solve distraction; I just thought that being able to reliably get to these destinations, rapidly, is the key part. There is a commonly held idea that there's a vocabulary developing for areas the site should have (e.g. log in,
14:30:40 <matatk> accessibility statement, account, ...)
14:30:50 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
14:31:08 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack janina
14:31:20 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
14:31:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/22-adapt-minutes.html matatk
14:31:34 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: I do not disagree, it's just how we talk about it. I am stressing, don't just talk about it as navigation.
14:31:47 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... talking about it from the POV of distraction implies that you have a <span> in mind
14:31:58 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... a target on the page, the region on the page
14:32:13 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: +1
14:32:20 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
14:32:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/22-adapt-minutes.html matatk
14:32:28 <Lionel_Wolberger> agenda?
14:32:29 <Lionel_Wolberger> Topic: Symbols
14:32:33 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
14:32:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/22-adapt-minutes.html matatk
14:34:34 <Lionel_Wolberger> Russel: Looked into taking ARASAAC and converting it into a font, using a tool
14:34:46 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... these bitmaps are large and rather complicated in order to tell what they are
14:35:02 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... emojis are optimized for rendering in small sizes
14:35:39 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... I started by exploring converting to SVG
14:35:58 <matatk> matatk has joined #adapt
14:37:07 <matatk> matatk has joined #adapt
14:37:14 <matatk> present+
14:37:19 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... tried the bitmaps, as bitmap fonts are supported
14:37:19 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
14:37:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/22-adapt-minutes.html matatk
14:37:44 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... a typical ARASAAC symbol is 500px high, while a bitmap font is much smaller
14:39:07 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... Ruby: We see a challenge I would call, 'double ruby'
14:39:27 <matatk> q+ to ask about SVG conversion; talk about touch points; comment on 240
14:39:44 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger has joined #Adapt
14:39:50 <Lionel_Wolberger> Russel: Encoding: Instead of using the Bliss and Unicode encoding, I am considering
14:40:04 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... using the private use area
14:40:27 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... I believe there is a registry tracking 'private use area' usage, I do not believe it is being maintained
14:40:29 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
14:40:34 <janina> We should most certainly not create an occidental solution!
14:40:49 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack matatk
14:40:49 <Zakim> matatk, you wanted to ask about SVG conversion; talk about touch points; comment on 240
14:40:57 <Lionel_Wolberger> rrsagent, make minutes
14:40:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/22-adapt-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
14:41:54 <Lionel_Wolberger> matatk: Would like to hear more about the SVG conversion. Noting, the WHAT-WG people were highly confident that highly sophisticated SVGs can become fonts.
14:42:05 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... so we need to look closer at what happened there
14:42:18 <russell> russell has joined #adapt
14:43:01 <janina> q+ to note the need for details as one touchpoint
14:43:10 <Lionel_Wolberger> matatk: Touchpoints: Let's keep in mind those cases that are more challenging like plurals, conjugations. I believe we have a list
14:44:50 <Lionel_Wolberger> matatk: We are getting feedback on Issue 240, comment from i18n-WG
14:45:59 <russell> q+
14:46:38 <Lionel_Wolberger> matatk: Private usage area: I suspect our unicode advocates will not find this approach as suitable
14:46:46 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack janina
14:46:46 <Zakim> janina, you wanted to note the need for details as one touchpoint
14:47:55 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: higher resolution: clarifying that ARASAAC needs more resolution than emojis may be a critical touchpoint to the font conversation
14:48:04 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack russell
14:48:38 <matatk> q+ to make suggestion for some concrete and discrete next steps
14:49:42 <Lionel_Wolberger> russell: Intriguing that BLISS is amenable to lower resolutions, but ARASAAC is not
14:51:04 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... Private use area: I am suggesting we could use Private use Area code points rather than Bliss IDs
14:51:37 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... I have argued against Bliss encoding as this seems like a particular 'spelling' for a symbol, and these spellings do change
14:52:07 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... for example in the case of a rotary phone leaving the vernacular, so the pictagram changes, and then we have a new spelling and a new Bliss ID
14:52:33 <Lionel_Wolberger> rrsagent, make minutes
14:52:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/22-adapt-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
14:54:01 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
14:54:07 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack matatk
14:54:07 <Zakim> matatk, you wanted to make suggestion for some concrete and discrete next steps
14:55:01 <Lionel_Wolberger> matatk: Propose using github wiki for collaboration on the primary symbol touchpoints
14:55:17 <Lionel_Wolberger> +1
14:55:34 <janina> q+
14:55:39 <janina> ack janina
14:55:41 <janina> +1
14:55:43 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: 'testing the limits of the approach'
14:56:23 <Lionel_Wolberger> rrsagent, make minutes
14:56:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/22-adapt-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
14:56:30 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, end meeting
14:56:30 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Lionel_Wolberger, janina, Abhinav, matatk, Russell
14:56:32 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:56:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/22-adapt-minutes.html Zakim
14:56:39 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Lionel_Wolberger; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
14:56:41 <Zakim> Zakim has left #adapt
14:58:25 <janina> rrsagent, bye
14:58:25 <RRSAgent> I see no action items