IRC log of wot on 2024-10-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

11:53:54 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wot
11:53:58 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/10/16-wot-irc
11:54:00 [kaz]
meeting: WoT-WG/IG
11:59:14 [kaz]
present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool
12:01:48 [Mizushima]
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12:01:56 [mjk]
mjk has joined #wot
12:02:40 [kaz]
present+ Michael_Koster, Kunihiko_Toumura, Tomoaki_Mizushima
12:02:46 [kaz]
chair: Koster
12:02:57 [kaz]
regrets+ Sebastian
12:03:07 [dezell]
dezell has joined #wot
12:03:19 [dezell]
present+ David_Ezell
12:03:28 [kaz]
present+ Ege_Korkan
12:04:05 [kaz]
agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#16_October_2024
12:04:27 [luca_barbato]
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12:06:37 [JKRhb]
JKRhb has joined #wot
12:07:19 [kaz]
present+ Jan_Romann
12:09:02 [JKRhb]
topic: ??
12:09:07 [kaz]
scribenick: JKRhb
12:09:13 [kaz]
s/??/IEs/
12:09:14 [kaz]
q+
12:09:15 [JKRhb]
s/??/New Members/
12:09:37 [JKRhb]
mk: We do not have any new members, but we onboarded Charice(?)
12:09:53 [JKRhb]
kaz: We had the call with him and he is okay to become task force lead
12:10:14 [JKRhb]
... just to make sure, he wanted to talk to Michael McCool to talk about more details
12:10:31 [JKRhb]
... so it would be great if you could answer him on the email thread, Michael
12:10:53 [JKRhb]
mm: Missed the call, also because it was at 6 AM in my timezone, but we can schedule another one
12:11:01 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/2024/10/16-team-wot-minutes.html onboarding minutes (member-only)
12:11:07 [JKRhb]
kaz: Walked through various topics, such as spec work and tooling
12:11:35 [JKRhb]
... no need to dive in the details, but he is getting used to the W3C's work and is okay with become TF moderator
12:11:54 [JKRhb]
mm: Yeah, I will give him my input, he needs it to get up to speed
12:12:05 [JKRhb]
... I also encourage him to join this meeting if he can
12:12:14 [JKRhb]
mk: He hasn't joined yet
12:12:21 [JKRhb]
... any other comments?
12:12:27 [JKRhb]
None
12:12:33 [JKRhb]
topic: Minutes Review
12:12:41 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/2024/10/09-wot-minutes.html Oct-9
12:12:51 [JKRhb]
mk: Just do a quick check, everyone should already had a look
12:12:56 [JKRhb]
... let's have a look
12:12:56 [kaz]
q-
12:12:57 [kaz]
q+
12:13:12 [JKRhb]
... do we still need to go over the TPAC minutes?
12:13:15 [matsuda]
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12:13:24 [kaz]
q-
12:13:26 [JKRhb]
mm: Need a resolution at the end, don't need to go over them now
12:13:37 [JKRhb]
mk: Okay, should we on the agenda at some point
12:13:45 [kaz]
present+ Luca_Barbato
12:13:51 [kaz]
present+ Tetsushi_Matsuda
12:13:53 [JKRhb]
... the Thingweb meeting, is that this week?
12:13:59 [JKRhb]
ek: No, is only next week
12:14:05 [JKRhb]
mm: Are there any conflicts?
12:14:26 [JKRhb]
ek: Not my presentation, but as it is the whole week, will conflict with all calls
12:14:43 [JKRhb]
mk: Is the Eclipse Experience, hope you will have a good time
12:14:56 [JKRhb]
... then, we scheduled a call with the @@@ CG
12:15:02 [JKRhb]
... discussed OPC liason
12:15:14 [JKRhb]
... TPAC presentation, CGs, WoT Week
12:15:19 [JKRhb]
... that was all
12:15:31 [JKRhb]
... any comments? Any objections to approving them?
12:15:44 [JKRhb]
None, minutes are approved
12:15:51 [JKRhb]
topic: TPAC Minutes
12:16:01 [JKRhb]
mk: I will just quickly go through them
12:16:13 [JKRhb]
... just skim through and see if anything sticks out
12:16:15 [kaz]
i/Oct-9/subtopic: Prev minutes/
12:16:23 [JKRhb]
mm: Can also skip the requirements part
12:16:33 [kaz]
s/topic: TPAC M/subtopic: TPAC M/
12:16:49 [kaz]
i|I will|-> https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-wot-minutes.html Day 1|
12:16:54 [kaz]
i|I will|-> https://www.w3.org/2024/09/27-wot-minutes.html Day 2|
12:16:55 [JKRhb]
mk: Requirements discussion, architecture discussion, things that aren't testable... I guess this includes everything that we talked about
12:17:00 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:17:02 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/16-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:17:09 [kaz]
rrsagent, make log public
12:17:11 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:17:12 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/16-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:17:17 [JKRhb]
mm: Can't ignore the assertions we already had in the previous architecture topic
12:17:17 [dezell]
dezell has joined #wot
12:17:30 [JKRhb]
mk: Need to create a work item to go through and discuss these assertions
12:17:43 [JKRhb]
... and decide whether to turn them informative or remove them
12:17:49 [JKRhb]
mm: There is also a resolution
12:18:04 [JKRhb]
mk: Oh, yeah, this probably includes what I said and more
12:18:10 [JKRhb]
mm: Let's follow up on that
12:18:22 [JKRhb]
... need to discuss _when_ to follow up as we don't have an architecture meeting
12:18:32 [JKRhb]
mk: Could this be an agenda item for the main call?
12:18:44 [JKRhb]
mm: Let's discuss it in the taskforce section
12:18:50 [kaz]
s/@@@/WoT/
12:18:52 [JKRhb]
... as this is going to be difficult to implement
12:18:52 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:18:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/16-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:19:06 [JKRhb]
mk: There was also a resolution to defer the work on discovery
12:19:20 [JKRhb]
... to the next charter
12:19:34 [JKRhb]
mm: My suggestion is to just publish an errata
12:19:46 [JKRhb]
... saying that Discovery can also be used with TD 2.0
12:20:04 [JKRhb]
... not really the purpose of a errata, but this will do it
12:20:38 [JKRhb]
mk: Yeah, can be used to clarify that Discovery is not bound to a certain version, also corresonding with the interoperability contract we have
12:21:03 [JKRhb]
mk: Then there is the ETSI @@@ liason
12:21:08 [JKRhb]
... and AIoT
12:21:21 [JKRhb]
kaz: Need to adjust the second line in that section
12:21:33 [JKRhb]
mk: That is one small change, not any others so far
12:21:43 [JKRhb]
... discussed the joint call with JSON-LD
12:21:51 [JKRhb]
... minutes are slim, but I guess no issue with them
12:22:17 [JKRhb]
... then canonicalization, all topics for JSON-LD
12:22:29 [JKRhb]
... really comprehensive meeting with them
12:22:33 [JKRhb]
... any changes?
12:22:51 [JKRhb]
mm: Would be good if someone good summarize the JSON-LD minutes
12:23:04 [JKRhb]
... under the liason section in the wot repo
12:23:12 [JKRhb]
... could also be discussed in the TD call
12:23:30 [JKRhb]
mk: Let's create an item there
12:23:48 [JKRhb]
ek: In the TD call, we actually already summarized the JSON-LD part
12:24:02 [JKRhb]
mk: Any objections to approving them?
12:24:12 [JKRhb]
... let's first review the second day, though
12:24:20 [JKRhb]
... (opens the second minutes)
12:24:32 [JKRhb]
... spatial data, seems to make progress, has been a long path
12:24:38 [kaz]
i|Any ob|-> https://www.w3.org/2024/10/09-wot-td-minutes.html#191a TPAC summary during the TD call on Oct 9|
12:24:47 [JKRhb]
mm: Just a summary of a proposal I made three years ago
12:24:51 [cris]
cris has joined #wot
12:24:58 [JKRhb]
... just a question of when it will come to the front of the queue
12:25:09 [JKRhb]
... needs a champion that cares about the geolocation use case
12:25:19 [JKRhb]
... probably highly relevant for the smart city use case
12:25:25 [JKRhb]
mk: Yeah, can be a driver
12:25:34 [JKRhb]
... then SDW charter report
12:25:40 [JKRhb]
... a lot going on here
12:26:02 [JKRhb]
... anything coming out of this? No action item, just two links
12:26:15 [JKRhb]
mm: We are just saying that the meeting had to be rescheduled
12:26:21 [JKRhb]
... will be doing one in two weeks
12:26:37 [kaz]
q+
12:26:40 [JKRhb]
mk: Alright. Then we had the report from the two hour meeting
12:26:48 [JKRhb]
ek: We also reviewed this in the TD call
12:27:00 [JKRhb]
mk: Yeah, and I think we had no amendments to make here
12:27:13 [JKRhb]
kaz: By the way, Ege, do you have the link for @@@?
12:27:22 [JKRhb]
ek: Yeah, I have added it (?)
12:27:34 [JKRhb]
kaz: I can add the link to the minutes
12:27:51 [JKRhb]
... can convert the "@"s in the minutes
12:28:06 [JKRhb]
mk: There is a small typo in the minutes
12:28:22 [JKRhb]
mk: We also discussed use case extraction, will also talk about that today
12:28:36 [JKRhb]
... discussed the tranformation from requirements analysis
12:29:02 [JKRhb]
... then we discussed the relationship between bindings and profiles, but not all the relevant people were there
12:29:21 [kaz]
(link for the slides for "TD, Profile" session has been added)
12:29:34 [JKRhb]
... then we discussed policies, we did not make any decisions, but we discussed how to go forward
12:29:53 [JKRhb]
... there are a few small changes, but we can go ahead with approving the minutes
12:30:15 [JKRhb]
... are there any objections? We do not need a formal resolution, right?
12:30:24 [McCool]
proposal: Accept the TPAC 2024 minutes.
12:30:31 [JKRhb]
... does anyone have any further input?
12:30:45 [McCool]
resolution: Accept the TPAC 2024 minutes.
12:30:46 [JKRhb]
... given that no one has any input, we can accept the minutes from TPAC, both days
12:30:53 [JKRhb]
mm: Made a resolution
12:30:59 [kaz]
present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi
12:30:59 [JKRhb]
mk: Thank you
12:31:12 [JKRhb]
subtopic: General Policy
12:31:20 [JKRhb]
mm: Just a reminder
12:31:43 [JKRhb]
mk: Reminder that everyone should review the minutes beforehand, can save a lot of time during the meeting
12:32:05 [JKRhb]
... was okay today, since it was TPAC, was generally we should streamline the process
12:32:10 [JKRhb]
topic: Quick Items
12:32:16 [JKRhb]
There are no quick items
12:32:24 [JKRhb]
topic: Eclipse Thingweb
12:32:46 [JKRhb]
mk: Ege will present the Thingweb project at the Eclipse Experience
12:33:08 [JKRhb]
topic: WoT CG
12:33:40 [JKRhb]
ek: The meeting on the 14th took place
12:34:03 [JKRhb]
... there will be meetings on the 28th and the 5th of November
12:34:16 [kaz]
s/topic: W/subtopic: WoT CG/
12:34:19 [JKRhb]
mk: Yesterday was great, learned a lot
12:34:29 [kaz]
i/subtopic: WoT CG/topic: Meetups/
12:34:36 [JKRhb]
mm: I want to complain a bit about the conflicts, though
12:34:41 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:34:42 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/16-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:34:49 [JKRhb]
... ETSI call was scheduled for weeks
12:34:54 [JKRhb]
... should not happen
12:35:07 [JKRhb]
... there was another conflict with the chairs call some time ago
12:35:21 [kaz]
s/ETSI @@@ liaison/ETSI CIM ISG liaison on NGSI-LD/
12:35:25 [kaz]
q+
12:35:25 [JKRhb]
... should have a policy that there should be any conflicts with WG call
12:35:40 [JKRhb]
ek: I don't think there are any conflicts
12:35:51 [kaz]
s/for @@@/for the TD session slides/
12:36:00 [JKRhb]
mm: We had known the 14th for the ETSI call for a while
12:36:09 [kaz]
s/WoT CGoT CG/WoT CG/
12:36:13 [JKRhb]
... should try to avoid that, were both very important calls
12:36:31 [JKRhb]
... going forward, we should generally reserve the Monday slot for the ETSI call
12:36:43 [JKRhb]
mk: Probably was kind of a race conditions
12:37:02 [kaz]
q-
12:37:08 [JKRhb]
... for the other calls, we need to be careful. There is one on Monday, does that one conflict?
12:37:14 [JKRhb]
ek: No, there is no conflict
12:37:33 [kaz]
q+
12:37:33 [JKRhb]
mk: Then the CG had office hours etc. Any more comments on the meetups?
12:37:49 [JKRhb]
subtopic: Smart Cities IG
12:38:00 [JKRhb]
mk: Had a kickoff
12:38:15 [JKRhb]
kaz: Kickoff happened at TPAC, hope to get more participants
12:38:35 [JKRhb]
... I am asking interested people to join the call, starting the end of this month
12:38:40 [kaz]
q-
12:38:51 [JKRhb]
topic: Liasons
12:38:58 [JKRhb]
subtopic: OPC Foundation
12:39:24 [JKRhb]
mk: Open for everyone to join, try to create a protocol binding
12:39:37 [JKRhb]
... probably interesting, since there are going to be concepts
12:39:45 [JKRhb]
s/concepts/new concepts/
12:39:55 [JKRhb]
subtopic: ETSI ISG CIM
12:40:06 [JKRhb]
mk: Next weeking will be on the 28th
12:40:07 [kaz]
q+
12:40:13 [JKRhb]
... every two weeks after that
12:40:51 [JKRhb]
kaz: Just to make sure: We need to ask the ETSI guys to register at w3.org to be able to share calendar invites with them
12:41:00 [kaz]
q-
12:41:03 [cris]
q+
12:41:07 [JKRhb]
... on the 28th, we can start the discussion on concrete liason topics
12:41:21 [JKRhb]
topic: Schedule
12:41:31 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minuts
12:41:31 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft minuts', kaz. Try /msg RRSAgent help
12:41:35 [kaz]
s/rrsagent, draft minuts//
12:41:37 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:41:38 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/16-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:41:46 [JKRhb]
ca: Added a topic here, do you have anything else in mind here before talking about the Scripting API call?
12:42:01 [JKRhb]
mk: I don't think so, we just need to call about cancellations and so on
12:42:10 [JKRhb]
... not cancelling columbus call
12:42:17 [kaz]
s/ETSI @@@ liason/ETSI CIM ISG liaison/
12:42:20 [Mizushima]
Mizushima has joined #wot
12:42:22 [JKRhb]
... use case call with not be canceled
12:42:33 [JKRhb]
... can discuss about new use cases next week
12:42:49 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:42:51 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/16-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:42:58 [JKRhb]
ca: We discussed some while ago that we wanted to move the Scripting API call to another slot that is better for everyone
12:43:12 [JKRhb]
... current proposal is to move the call to Wednesdays, 11 AM
12:43:28 [JKRhb]
.... CET
12:43:31 [kaz]
i|Added|-> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#Holidays_and_Upcoming_Events Cancellations|
12:43:40 [JKRhb]
... not sure if everyone got the Doodle call
12:43:58 [JKRhb]
... alternative would be Tuesdays, 11 AM
12:44:18 [JKRhb]
mm: That is very early for the pacific timezone, that is 2 AM
12:44:27 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:44:29 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/16-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:44:46 [JKRhb]
... most participants are from Europe, but for other timezones it is awkward
12:44:58 [kaz]
i|don't think|-> https://doodle.com/meeting/organize/id/erXZMX6b Doodle result for new Scripting slot|
12:45:07 [JKRhb]
... would be great if another slot could integrate other timezones as well
12:45:36 [JKRhb]
ca: Were the only slots that worked for the current partipants, but we will keep it in mind
12:45:49 [JKRhb]
topic: Schedule
12:46:07 [JKRhb]
mk: Some of the dates in the schedule are coming up, need to be aware of them
12:46:19 [JKRhb]
... still a couple of months off the first deadline, though
12:46:23 [JKRhb]
... any comments?
12:46:25 [JKRhb]
None
12:46:33 [JKRhb]
topic: F2F Planning
12:46:36 [mjk]
q?
12:46:40 [JKRhb]
ack c
12:46:53 [JKRhb]
mk: For WoT Week, registration is open
12:47:02 [JKRhb]
... there is a bunch of stuff happening that week
12:47:05 [JKRhb]
mm: One comment:
12:47:27 [JKRhb]
... Sebastian is not here, we should be ready to set up remote participation
12:47:47 [JKRhb]
mk: We have a plugfest meeting after this one, need to talk about VPN setup
12:47:56 [kaz]
i|That is very|-> https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html?iso=20241022T090000&p1=137&p2=43&p3=tz_at&p4=1440&p5=136&p6=195&p7=101&p8=33&p9=236&p10=248 Wednesday, 11am CEST
12:48:02 [kaz]
s/Doodle call/Doodle poll/
12:48:05 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:48:06 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/16-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:48:12 [dezell]
q+
12:48:17 [JKRhb]
mm: Cannot make the call, should schedule Zoom meetings and put them on the calendar
12:48:31 [JKRhb]
ek: For the F2F meetings, should we plan with the whole day?
12:48:43 [JKRhb]
... European morning will be quite early
12:48:53 [kaz]
s/Schedule/Publication schedule/
12:49:16 [kaz]
i|Some of the|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/planning/schedule.md schedule.md|
12:49:18 [JKRhb]
mm: As they are companies, they have business hours, but maybe we can set up somethin like 10 AM
12:49:18 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:49:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/16-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:49:32 [JKRhb]
mk: Yeah, and have a recap in the afternoon
12:49:45 [JKRhb]
... setting up the Zoom calls sounds like an action item
12:49:49 [kaz]
i|For WoT W|-> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Wiki_for_WoT_Week_2024_planning WoT Week wiki|
12:49:57 [JKRhb]
... let's see the participants list
12:49:59 [kaz]
q?
12:50:01 [JKRhb]
... oh, it has grown
12:50:03 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:50:04 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/16-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:50:10 [kaz]
q+
12:51:01 [JKRhb]
david: I am not sure whether a lot of newcomers will be able to participate, maybe even one call would be enough
12:51:11 [JKRhb]
... as it is 7 AM mountain time (?)
12:51:23 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:51:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/16-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:51:46 [JKRhb]
... for organizational matters, it is fine, but the plugfest event might be too early
12:51:58 [JKRhb]
... they are serious, though, and will attend in person
12:52:14 [JKRhb]
mm: In general, starting a bit later would be great for remote participants
12:52:31 [JKRhb]
... except for people from Japan, who have the opposite problem
12:52:44 [JKRhb]
mk: Any other final comments on the F2F planning topic?
12:52:47 [JKRhb]
None
12:52:54 [JKRhb]
topic: Policies
12:53:02 [JKRhb]
mk: Need to get these PRs merged
12:53:14 [JKRhb]
... and we have a number of other pending aspects
12:53:26 [kaz]
q+
12:53:30 [kaz]
ack d
12:53:40 [JKRhb]
topic: Use Cases and Requirements
12:53:52 [JKRhb]
mm: A lot of topics come from the TD call
12:54:05 [JKRhb]
... the use cases call is quite early for people outside Europe
12:54:22 [JKRhb]
... maybe next week we can have a discussion in the TD call on Wednesday
12:54:22 [kaz]
q-
12:54:34 [JKRhb]
... and then we can get the requirements process rolling
12:54:48 [JKRhb]
... maybe we can schedule a slot for that on Thursday next week
12:55:02 [JKRhb]
mk: Where are we standing on TD use cases at the moment?
12:55:16 [JKRhb]
... should we put filling out the use cases template on the agenda?
12:55:29 [JKRhb]
mm: Should only add new use cases if we need them
12:55:39 [JKRhb]
... most things we need to add are feature requests
12:55:53 [JKRhb]
... can review them in the TD call or the use cases call
12:56:09 [JKRhb]
... can organize them via adding labels, then we can review them beforehand
12:56:21 [JKRhb]
... and make an actionable plan on next Thursday
12:56:40 [JKRhb]
mk: Yeah, important to identify uses cases and feature requests
12:56:44 [JKRhb]
... and define the process
12:56:59 [JKRhb]
... since we also wanted a bit of user story even for feature requests
12:57:16 [JKRhb]
mk: Other discussions under this agenda item?
12:57:22 [JKRhb]
... already talked about security
12:57:40 [JKRhb]
mm: Talked about architecture, need to do work here, but we don't have a lead
12:57:49 [kaz]
q+
12:58:02 [JKRhb]
... should at least update the references, even if we don't do anything
12:58:10 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-wot-minutes.html#r01 Architecture resolution during TPAC
12:58:12 [JKRhb]
mk: So we should create a work item for that
12:58:34 [JKRhb]
mm: Yeah, we discussed this before, even doing the clean up would take about three to four weeks
12:58:43 [JKRhb]
... could do an errata
12:58:57 [JKRhb]
mk: It will become a note, though, right?
12:59:15 [JKRhb]
mm: Even then moving things around will take time
12:59:20 [JKRhb]
... cannot undo a REC
12:59:36 [JKRhb]
... could be deferred to the next charter, not super critical
12:59:45 [JKRhb]
... could publish an errata for broken links
13:00:02 [JKRhb]
mk: Just wanted to point out that it is a work item for the WG since we don't have a TF
13:00:15 [JKRhb]
mm: Yeah, just need to make sure that nothing is broken
13:00:34 [JKRhb]
kaz: Regarding architecture work, I can just mention our resolution to PLH
13:00:48 [kaz]
s/PLH/PLH at the moment/
13:01:00 [JKRhb]
... and then we can talk to him more seriously once we are ready to work on a note
13:01:08 [JKRhb]
topic: AOB
13:01:13 [JKRhb]
None
13:01:18 [kaz]
s/a note/a Note/
13:01:20 [JKRhb]
[adjourned]
13:01:35 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:01:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/16-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:01:54 [McCool]
(apologies that I can't join the plugfest call, feeling ill...)
13:11:29 [jets]
present+
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