11:53:54 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot
11:53:58 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/10/16-wot-irc
11:54:00 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG/IG
11:59:14 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool
12:01:48 <Mizushima> Mizushima has joined #wot
12:01:56 <mjk> mjk has joined #wot
12:02:40 <kaz> present+ Michael_Koster, Kunihiko_Toumura, Tomoaki_Mizushima
12:02:46 <kaz> chair: Koster
12:02:57 <kaz> regrets+ Sebastian
12:03:07 <dezell> dezell has joined #wot
12:03:19 <dezell> present+ David_Ezell
12:03:28 <kaz> present+ Ege_Korkan
12:04:05 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#16_October_2024
12:04:27 <luca_barbato> luca_barbato has joined #wot
12:06:37 <JKRhb> JKRhb has joined #wot
12:07:19 <kaz> present+ Jan_Romann
12:09:02 <JKRhb> topic: ??
12:09:07 <kaz> scribenick: JKRhb
12:09:13 <kaz> s/??/IEs/
12:09:14 <kaz> q+
12:09:15 <JKRhb> s/??/New Members/
12:09:37 <JKRhb> mk: We do not have any new members, but we onboarded Charice(?)
12:09:53 <JKRhb> kaz: We had the call with him and he is okay to become task force lead
12:10:14 <JKRhb> ... just to make sure, he wanted to talk to Michael McCool to talk about more details
12:10:31 <JKRhb> ... so it would be great if you could answer him on the email thread, Michael
12:10:53 <JKRhb> mm: Missed the call, also because it was at 6 AM in my timezone, but we can schedule another one
12:11:01 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2024/10/16-team-wot-minutes.html onboarding minutes (member-only)
12:11:07 <JKRhb> kaz: Walked through various topics, such as spec work and tooling
12:11:35 <JKRhb> ... no need to dive in the details, but he is getting used to the W3C's work and is okay with become TF moderator
12:11:54 <JKRhb> mm: Yeah, I will give him my input, he needs it to get up to speed
12:12:05 <JKRhb> ... I also encourage him to join this meeting if he can
12:12:14 <JKRhb> mk: He hasn't joined yet
12:12:21 <JKRhb> ... any other comments?
12:12:27 <JKRhb> None
12:12:33 <JKRhb> topic: Minutes Review
12:12:41 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2024/10/09-wot-minutes.html Oct-9
12:12:51 <JKRhb> mk: Just do a quick check, everyone should already had a look
12:12:56 <JKRhb> ... let's have a look
12:12:56 <kaz> q-
12:12:57 <kaz> q+
12:13:12 <JKRhb> ... do we still need to go over the TPAC minutes?
12:13:15 <matsuda> matsuda has joined #wot
12:13:24 <kaz> q-
12:13:26 <JKRhb> mm: Need a resolution at the end, don't need to go over them now
12:13:37 <JKRhb> mk: Okay, should we on the agenda at some point
12:13:45 <kaz> present+ Luca_Barbato
12:13:51 <kaz> present+ Tetsushi_Matsuda
12:13:53 <JKRhb> ... the Thingweb meeting, is that this week?
12:13:59 <JKRhb> ek: No, is only next week
12:14:05 <JKRhb> mm: Are there any conflicts?
12:14:26 <JKRhb> ek: Not my presentation, but as it is the whole week, will conflict with all calls
12:14:43 <JKRhb> mk: Is the Eclipse Experience, hope you will have a good time
12:14:56 <JKRhb> ... then, we scheduled a call with the @@@ CG
12:15:02 <JKRhb> ... discussed OPC liason
12:15:14 <JKRhb> ... TPAC presentation, CGs, WoT Week
12:15:19 <JKRhb> ... that was all
12:15:31 <JKRhb> ... any comments? Any objections to approving them?
12:15:44 <JKRhb> None, minutes are approved
12:15:51 <JKRhb> topic: TPAC Minutes
12:16:01 <JKRhb> mk: I will just quickly go through them
12:16:13 <JKRhb> ... just skim through and see if anything sticks out
12:16:15 <kaz> i/Oct-9/subtopic: Prev minutes/
12:16:23 <JKRhb> mm: Can also skip the requirements part
12:16:33 <kaz> s/topic: TPAC M/subtopic: TPAC M/
12:16:49 <kaz> i|I will|-> https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-wot-minutes.html Day 1|
12:16:54 <kaz> i|I will|-> https://www.w3.org/2024/09/27-wot-minutes.html Day 2|
12:16:55 <JKRhb> mk: Requirements discussion, architecture discussion, things that aren't testable... I guess this includes everything that we talked about
12:17:00 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:17:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/16-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:17:09 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
12:17:11 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:17:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/16-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:17:17 <JKRhb> mm: Can't ignore the assertions we already had in the previous architecture topic
12:17:17 <dezell> dezell has joined #wot
12:17:30 <JKRhb> mk: Need to create a work item to go through and discuss these assertions
12:17:43 <JKRhb> ... and decide whether to turn them informative or remove them
12:17:49 <JKRhb> mm: There is also a resolution
12:18:04 <JKRhb> mk: Oh, yeah, this probably includes what I said and more
12:18:10 <JKRhb> mm: Let's follow up on that
12:18:22 <JKRhb> ... need to discuss _when_ to follow up as we don't have an architecture meeting
12:18:32 <JKRhb> mk: Could this be an agenda item for the main call?
12:18:44 <JKRhb> mm: Let's discuss it in the taskforce section
12:18:50 <kaz> s/@@@/WoT/
12:18:52 <JKRhb> ... as this is going to be difficult to implement
12:18:52 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:18:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/16-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:19:06 <JKRhb> mk: There was also a resolution to defer the work on discovery
12:19:20 <JKRhb> ... to the next charter
12:19:34 <JKRhb> mm: My suggestion is to just publish an errata
12:19:46 <JKRhb> ... saying that Discovery can also be used with TD 2.0
12:20:04 <JKRhb> ... not really the purpose of a errata, but this will do it
12:20:38 <JKRhb> mk: Yeah, can be used to clarify that Discovery is not bound to a certain version, also corresonding with the interoperability contract we have
12:21:03 <JKRhb> mk: Then there is the ETSI @@@ liason
12:21:08 <JKRhb> ... and AIoT
12:21:21 <JKRhb> kaz: Need to adjust the second line in that section
12:21:33 <JKRhb> mk: That is one small change, not any others so far
12:21:43 <JKRhb> ... discussed the joint call with JSON-LD
12:21:51 <JKRhb> ... minutes are slim, but I guess no issue with them
12:22:17 <JKRhb> ... then canonicalization, all topics for JSON-LD
12:22:29 <JKRhb> ... really comprehensive meeting with them
12:22:33 <JKRhb> ... any changes?
12:22:51 <JKRhb> mm: Would be good if someone good summarize the JSON-LD minutes
12:23:04 <JKRhb> ... under the liason section in the wot repo
12:23:12 <JKRhb> ... could also be discussed in the TD call
12:23:30 <JKRhb> mk: Let's create an item there
12:23:48 <JKRhb> ek: In the TD call, we actually already summarized the JSON-LD part
12:24:02 <JKRhb> mk: Any objections to approving them?
12:24:12 <JKRhb> ... let's first review the second day, though
12:24:20 <JKRhb> ... (opens the second minutes)
12:24:32 <JKRhb> ... spatial data, seems to make progress, has been a long path
12:24:38 <kaz> i|Any ob|-> https://www.w3.org/2024/10/09-wot-td-minutes.html#191a TPAC summary during the TD call on Oct 9|
12:24:47 <JKRhb> mm: Just a summary of a proposal I made three years ago
12:24:51 <cris> cris has joined #wot
12:24:58 <JKRhb> ... just a question of when it will come to the front of the queue
12:25:09 <JKRhb> ... needs a champion that cares about the geolocation use case
12:25:19 <JKRhb> ... probably highly relevant for the smart city use case
12:25:25 <JKRhb> mk: Yeah, can be a driver
12:25:34 <JKRhb> ... then SDW charter report
12:25:40 <JKRhb> ... a lot going on here
12:26:02 <JKRhb> ... anything coming out of this? No action item, just two links
12:26:15 <JKRhb> mm: We are just saying that the meeting had to be rescheduled
12:26:21 <JKRhb> ... will be doing one in two weeks
12:26:37 <kaz> q+
12:26:40 <JKRhb> mk: Alright. Then we had the report from the two hour meeting
12:26:48 <JKRhb> ek: We also reviewed this in the TD call
12:27:00 <JKRhb> mk: Yeah, and I think we had no amendments to make here
12:27:13 <JKRhb> kaz: By the way, Ege, do you have the link for @@@?
12:27:22 <JKRhb> ek: Yeah, I have added it (?)
12:27:34 <JKRhb> kaz: I can add the link to the minutes
12:27:51 <JKRhb> ... can convert the "@"s in the minutes
12:28:06 <JKRhb> mk: There is a small typo in the minutes
12:28:22 <JKRhb> mk: We also discussed use case extraction, will also talk about that today
12:28:36 <JKRhb> ... discussed the tranformation from requirements analysis
12:29:02 <JKRhb> ... then we discussed the relationship between bindings and profiles, but not all the relevant people were there
12:29:21 <kaz> (link for the slides for "TD, Profile" session has been added)
12:29:34 <JKRhb> ... then we discussed policies, we did not make any decisions, but we discussed how to go forward
12:29:53 <JKRhb> ... there are a few small changes, but we can go ahead with approving the minutes
12:30:15 <JKRhb> ... are there any objections? We do not need a formal resolution, right?
12:30:24 <McCool> proposal: Accept the TPAC 2024 minutes.
12:30:31 <JKRhb> ... does anyone have any further input?
12:30:45 <McCool> resolution: Accept the TPAC 2024 minutes.
12:30:46 <JKRhb> ... given that no one has any input, we can accept the minutes from TPAC, both days
12:30:53 <JKRhb> mm: Made a resolution
12:30:59 <kaz> present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi
12:30:59 <JKRhb> mk: Thank you
12:31:12 <JKRhb> subtopic: General Policy
12:31:20 <JKRhb> mm: Just a reminder
12:31:43 <JKRhb> mk: Reminder that everyone should review the minutes beforehand, can save a lot of time during the meeting
12:32:05 <JKRhb> ... was okay today, since it was TPAC, was generally we should streamline the process
12:32:10 <JKRhb> topic: Quick Items
12:32:16 <JKRhb> There are no quick items
12:32:24 <JKRhb> topic: Eclipse Thingweb
12:32:46 <JKRhb> mk: Ege will present the Thingweb project at the Eclipse Experience
12:33:08 <JKRhb> topic: WoT CG
12:33:40 <JKRhb> ek: The meeting on the 14th took place
12:34:03 <JKRhb> ... there will be meetings on the 28th and the 5th of November
12:34:16 <kaz> s/topic: W/subtopic: WoT CG/
12:34:19 <JKRhb> mk: Yesterday was great, learned a lot
12:34:29 <kaz> i/subtopic: WoT CG/topic: Meetups/
12:34:36 <JKRhb> mm: I want to complain a bit about the conflicts, though
12:34:41 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:34:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/16-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:34:49 <JKRhb> ... ETSI call was scheduled for weeks
12:34:54 <JKRhb> ... should not happen
12:35:07 <JKRhb> ... there was another conflict with the chairs call some time ago
12:35:21 <kaz> s/ETSI @@@ liaison/ETSI CIM ISG liaison on NGSI-LD/
12:35:25 <kaz> q+
12:35:25 <JKRhb> ... should have a policy that there should be any conflicts with WG call
12:35:40 <JKRhb> ek: I don't think there are any conflicts
12:35:51 <kaz> s/for @@@/for the TD session slides/
12:36:00 <JKRhb> mm: We had known the 14th for the ETSI call for a while
12:36:09 <kaz> s/WoT CGoT CG/WoT CG/
12:36:13 <JKRhb> ... should try to avoid that, were both very important calls
12:36:31 <JKRhb> ... going forward, we should generally reserve the Monday slot for the ETSI call
12:36:43 <JKRhb> mk: Probably was kind of a race conditions
12:37:02 <kaz> q-
12:37:08 <JKRhb> ... for the other calls, we need to be careful. There is one on Monday, does that one conflict?
12:37:14 <JKRhb> ek: No, there is no conflict
12:37:33 <kaz> q+
12:37:33 <JKRhb> mk: Then the CG had office hours etc. Any more comments on the meetups?
12:37:49 <JKRhb> subtopic: Smart Cities IG
12:38:00 <JKRhb> mk: Had a kickoff
12:38:15 <JKRhb> kaz: Kickoff happened at TPAC, hope to get more participants
12:38:35 <JKRhb> ... I am asking interested people to join the call, starting the end of this month
12:38:40 <kaz> q-
12:38:51 <JKRhb> topic: Liasons
12:38:58 <JKRhb> subtopic: OPC Foundation
12:39:24 <JKRhb> mk: Open for everyone to join, try to create a protocol binding
12:39:37 <JKRhb> ... probably interesting, since there are going to be concepts
12:39:45 <JKRhb> s/concepts/new concepts/
12:39:55 <JKRhb> subtopic: ETSI ISG CIM
12:40:06 <JKRhb> mk: Next weeking will be on the 28th
12:40:07 <kaz> q+
12:40:13 <JKRhb> ... every two weeks after that
12:40:51 <JKRhb> kaz: Just to make sure: We need to ask the ETSI guys to register at w3.org to be able to share calendar invites with them
12:41:00 <kaz> q-
12:41:03 <cris> q+
12:41:07 <JKRhb> ... on the 28th, we can start the discussion on concrete liason topics
12:41:21 <JKRhb> topic: Schedule
12:41:31 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minuts
12:41:31 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft minuts', kaz.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
12:41:35 <kaz> s/rrsagent, draft minuts//
12:41:37 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:41:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/16-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:41:46 <JKRhb> ca: Added a topic here, do you have anything else in mind here before talking about the Scripting API call?
12:42:01 <JKRhb> mk: I don't think so, we just need to call about cancellations and so on
12:42:10 <JKRhb> ... not cancelling columbus call
12:42:17 <kaz> s/ETSI @@@ liason/ETSI CIM ISG liaison/
12:42:20 <Mizushima> Mizushima has joined #wot
12:42:22 <JKRhb> ... use case call with not be canceled
12:42:33 <JKRhb> ... can discuss about new use cases next week
12:42:49 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:42:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/16-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:42:58 <JKRhb> ca: We discussed some while ago that we wanted to move the Scripting API call to another slot that is better for everyone
12:43:12 <JKRhb> ... current proposal is to move the call to Wednesdays, 11 AM
12:43:28 <JKRhb> .... CET
12:43:31 <kaz> i|Added|-> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#Holidays_and_Upcoming_Events Cancellations|
12:43:40 <JKRhb> ... not sure if everyone got the Doodle call
12:43:58 <JKRhb> ... alternative would be Tuesdays, 11 AM
12:44:18 <JKRhb> mm: That is very early for the pacific timezone, that is 2 AM
12:44:27 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:44:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/16-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:44:46 <JKRhb> ... most participants are from Europe, but for other timezones it is awkward
12:44:58 <kaz> i|don't think|-> https://doodle.com/meeting/organize/id/erXZMX6b Doodle result for new Scripting slot|
12:45:07 <JKRhb> ... would be great if another slot could integrate other timezones as well
12:45:36 <JKRhb> ca: Were the only slots that worked for the current partipants, but we will keep it in mind
12:45:49 <JKRhb> topic: Schedule
12:46:07 <JKRhb> mk: Some of the dates in the schedule are coming up, need to be aware of them
12:46:19 <JKRhb> ... still a couple of months off the first deadline, though
12:46:23 <JKRhb> ... any comments?
12:46:25 <JKRhb> None
12:46:33 <JKRhb> topic: F2F Planning
12:46:36 <mjk> q?
12:46:40 <JKRhb> ack c
12:46:53 <JKRhb> mk: For WoT Week, registration is open
12:47:02 <JKRhb> ... there is a bunch of stuff happening that week
12:47:05 <JKRhb> mm: One comment:
12:47:27 <JKRhb> ... Sebastian is not here, we should be ready to set up remote participation
12:47:47 <JKRhb> mk: We have a plugfest meeting after this one, need to talk about VPN setup
12:47:56 <kaz> i|That is very|-> https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html?iso=20241022T090000&p1=137&p2=43&p3=tz_at&p4=1440&p5=136&p6=195&p7=101&p8=33&p9=236&p10=248 Wednesday, 11am CEST
12:48:02 <kaz> s/Doodle call/Doodle poll/
12:48:05 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:48:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/16-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:48:12 <dezell> q+
12:48:17 <JKRhb> mm: Cannot make the call, should schedule Zoom meetings and put them on the calendar
12:48:31 <JKRhb> ek: For the F2F meetings, should we plan with the whole day?
12:48:43 <JKRhb> ... European morning will be quite early
12:48:53 <kaz> s/Schedule/Publication schedule/
12:49:16 <kaz> i|Some of the|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/planning/schedule.md schedule.md|
12:49:18 <JKRhb> mm: As they are companies, they have business hours, but maybe we can set up somethin like 10 AM
12:49:18 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:49:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/16-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:49:32 <JKRhb> mk: Yeah, and have a recap in the afternoon
12:49:45 <JKRhb> ... setting up the Zoom calls sounds like an action item
12:49:49 <kaz> i|For WoT W|-> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Wiki_for_WoT_Week_2024_planning WoT Week wiki|
12:49:57 <JKRhb> ... let's see the participants list
12:49:59 <kaz> q?
12:50:01 <JKRhb> ... oh, it has grown
12:50:03 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:50:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/16-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:50:10 <kaz> q+
12:51:01 <JKRhb> david: I am not sure whether a lot of newcomers will be able to participate, maybe even one call would be enough
12:51:11 <JKRhb> ... as it is 7 AM mountain time (?)
12:51:23 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:51:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/16-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:51:46 <JKRhb> ... for organizational matters, it is fine, but the plugfest event might be too early
12:51:58 <JKRhb> ... they are serious, though, and will attend in person
12:52:14 <JKRhb> mm: In general, starting a bit later would be great for remote participants
12:52:31 <JKRhb> ... except for people from Japan, who have the opposite problem
12:52:44 <JKRhb> mk: Any other final comments on the F2F planning topic?
12:52:47 <JKRhb> None
12:52:54 <JKRhb> topic: Policies
12:53:02 <JKRhb> mk: Need to get these PRs merged
12:53:14 <JKRhb> ... and we have a number of other pending aspects
12:53:26 <kaz> q+
12:53:30 <kaz> ack d
12:53:40 <JKRhb> topic: Use Cases and Requirements
12:53:52 <JKRhb> mm: A lot of topics come from the TD call
12:54:05 <JKRhb> ... the use cases call is quite early for people outside Europe
12:54:22 <JKRhb> ... maybe next week we can have a discussion in the TD call on Wednesday
12:54:22 <kaz> q-
12:54:34 <JKRhb> ... and then we can get the requirements process rolling
12:54:48 <JKRhb> ... maybe we can schedule a slot for that on Thursday next week
12:55:02 <JKRhb> mk: Where are we standing on TD use cases at the moment?
12:55:16 <JKRhb> ... should we put filling out the use cases template on the agenda?
12:55:29 <JKRhb> mm: Should only add new use cases if we need them
12:55:39 <JKRhb> ... most things we need to add are feature requests
12:55:53 <JKRhb> ... can review them in the TD call or the use cases call
12:56:09 <JKRhb> ... can organize them via adding labels, then we can review them beforehand
12:56:21 <JKRhb> ... and make an actionable plan on next Thursday
12:56:40 <JKRhb> mk: Yeah, important to identify uses cases and feature requests
12:56:44 <JKRhb> ... and define the process
12:56:59 <JKRhb> ... since we also wanted a bit of user story even for feature requests
12:57:16 <JKRhb> mk: Other discussions under this agenda item?
12:57:22 <JKRhb> ... already talked about security
12:57:40 <JKRhb> mm: Talked about architecture, need to do work here, but we don't have a lead
12:57:49 <kaz> q+
12:58:02 <JKRhb> ... should at least update the references, even if we don't do anything
12:58:10 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-wot-minutes.html#r01 Architecture resolution during TPAC
12:58:12 <JKRhb> mk: So we should create a work item for that
12:58:34 <JKRhb> mm: Yeah, we discussed this before, even doing the clean up would take about three to four weeks
12:58:43 <JKRhb> ... could do an errata
12:58:57 <JKRhb> mk: It will become a note, though, right?
12:59:15 <JKRhb> mm: Even then moving things around will take time
12:59:20 <JKRhb> ... cannot undo a REC
12:59:36 <JKRhb> ... could be deferred to the next charter, not super critical
12:59:45 <JKRhb> ... could publish an errata for broken links
13:00:02 <JKRhb> mk: Just wanted to point out that it is a work item for the WG since we don't have a TF
13:00:15 <JKRhb> mm: Yeah, just need to make sure that nothing is broken
13:00:34 <JKRhb> kaz: Regarding architecture work, I can just mention our resolution to PLH
13:00:48 <kaz> s/PLH/PLH at the moment/
13:01:00 <JKRhb> ... and then we can talk to him more seriously once we are ready to work on a note
13:01:08 <JKRhb> topic: AOB
13:01:13 <JKRhb> None
13:01:18 <kaz> s/a note/a Note/
13:01:20 <JKRhb> [adjourned]
13:01:35 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:01:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/16-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:01:54 <McCool> (apologies that I can't join the plugfest call, feeling ill...)
13:11:29 <jets> present+
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