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11:01:15 <kaz> meeting: WoT Use Cases
11:01:39 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Tomoaki_Mizushima, Michael_McCool
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11:02:12 <kaz> present+ Ege_Korkan
11:03:49 <kaz> q+
11:06:13 <kaz> q-
11:06:34 <kaz> q-
11:06:38 <kaz> q+
11:07:00 <kaz> q-
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11:08:50 <EgeKorkan> topic: Agenda
11:09:27 <EgeKorkan> tm: (goes over the agenda). Minutes review, tpac wrap up, use case internal trial, requirements
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11:10:31 <JKRhb> present+ Jan_Romann
11:10:32 <EgeKorkan> topic: logistics
11:10:38 <EgeKorkan> tm: I will not be available on oct23
11:10:40 <JKRhb> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:10:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/09-wot-uc-minutes.html JKRhb
11:10:46 <EgeKorkan> mm: but let's keep the meeting and I can chair it
11:10:52 <JKRhb> rrsagent, make log public
11:11:02 <EgeKorkan> topic: Minutes Revie
11:11:14 <EgeKorkan> tm: (goes over the minutes)
11:11:35 <EgeKorkan> ... we discussed TPAC planning, schedule. Then talked about the internal trial.
11:12:16 <EgeKorkan> ... any opinions on the minutes?
11:12:23 <EgeKorkan> tm: Minutes are approved
11:12:34 <EgeKorkan> topic: Wrap up TPAC24
11:12:45 <kaz> i|goes|-> https://www.w3.org/2024/09/18-wot-uc-minutes.html Sep-18 minutes|
11:12:56 <kaz> s/Revie/Review/
11:13:52 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-wot-minutes.html#t02 TPAC WoT Meeting - Day 1 - Use Cases and Requirements
11:13:53 <EgeKorkan> mm: There is a small mistake in the requirements section
11:14:08 <EgeKorkan> ... "use case story" should be "user story"
11:16:01 <EgeKorkan> mm: I think we should look at how the Spatial Data in the Web WG does it
11:17:09 <EgeKorkan> tm: we can approve minutes from TPAC24 on the use case session
11:17:32 <kaz> i/goes over/scribenick: EgeKorkan/
11:17:42 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:17:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/09-wot-uc-minutes.html kaz
11:17:50 <EgeKorkan> topic: Use Case Trial
11:18:40 <McCool> q+
11:18:50 <kaz> chair: Mizushim, McCool
11:18:52 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:18:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/09-wot-uc-minutes.html kaz
11:18:59 <EgeKorkan> tm: Is there any issues on the trial?
11:18:59 <EgeKorkan> q+
11:19:45 <kaz> i|over the agenda|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/blob/main/TODO/20241009.md Agenda for today|
11:19:47 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:19:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/09-wot-uc-minutes.html kaz
11:20:43 <EgeKorkan> mm: we should put a deadline for the changes to the template. If there is any feedback, please open an issue
11:21:37 <kaz> q+
11:21:51 <EgeKorkan> mm: people can comment on the issue to improve the template
11:21:59 <Mizushima> ack McCool
11:22:08 <Mizushima> ack Ege
11:22:18 <kaz> s/logistics/Meeting schedule/
11:22:19 <EgeKorkan> mm: ROb said that there are use cases and use case scenarios
11:22:33 <EgeKorkan> mm: they are not end user cases
11:22:44 <EgeKorkan> ... for Rob, they are user stories
11:22:47 <JKRhb> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:22:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/09-wot-uc-minutes.html JKRhb
11:22:54 <kaz> s/ROb/Rob/
11:23:06 <EgeKorkan> mm: ege's examples were more feature requests
11:24:09 <kaz> q?
11:24:25 <EgeKorkan> mm: the TD examples are feature requests that are placed in use case scenario
11:24:34 <EgeKorkan> q+
11:24:46 <kaz> ack k
11:24:51 <EgeKorkan> kaz: I have asked the group to include the scenarios in the use case descriptions
11:25:22 <EgeKorkan> mm: it would be also weird to include two types of "submissions" in the use case document
11:25:56 <kaz> qq+
11:26:16 <EgeKorkan> mm: we want people outside to submit features since they are not able to do something
11:26:50 <EgeKorkan> kaz: use case or scenario is a sequence of device or user behavior or results. At least for me
11:27:17 <EgeKorkan> ... so we should look into their definitions in their document
11:27:52 <kaz> q-
11:28:03 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:28:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/09-wot-uc-minutes.html kaz
11:29:24 <kaz> s/use case or scenario is/from my viewpoint, "use case scenario"/
11:29:46 <EgeKorkan> ek: who is the user is not clear for me. the developer or end user of an application?
11:29:56 <EgeKorkan> ... also I want to see examples for each of these terms
11:29:57 <kaz> s/ At least for me//
11:30:15 <EgeKorkan> q+
11:30:35 <EgeKorkan> mm: feature comes from developer and use case comes from a business point of view
11:30:46 <kaz> s/so we should/but maybe the SDW guys use "use case scenario" for a bit different meaning, so I'd suggest we should/
11:31:11 <kaz> s/who is the user/"who is the user"/
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11:31:51 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:31:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/09-wot-uc-minutes.html kaz
11:32:52 <EgeKorkan> ek: If use cases are end user view, then the current use case document has just that and is merely a marketing document
11:36:02 <Mizushima> ack Ege
11:38:08 <EgeKorkan> mm: if there is no end user scenario but it is a developer pain point, that can be a category but even a developer is working under a context
11:38:26 <EgeKorkan> ek: not always if they are building a library, e.g. node-wot which is used in multiple domcains
11:38:36 <EgeKorkan> mm: they can be all written down as application areas
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11:38:51 <EgeKorkan> ek: can you give an example of an end user use case driving a technical feature
11:39:13 <kaz> present+ Josh_Thomas, Luca_Barbato
11:39:15 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:39:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/09-wot-uc-minutes.html kaz
11:39:31 <EgeKorkan> mm: in a farm with contrained battery powered devices, they need to support CBOR-LD so that they be more efficient
11:39:45 <EgeKorkan> ek: ok I understand
11:40:57 <luca_barbato> q+
11:40:59 <EgeKorkan> ek: in this case, even this submission would have a feature request in it
11:41:45 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:41:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/09-wot-uc-minutes.html kaz
11:42:11 <EgeKorkan> mm: yes in a way
11:43:10 <EgeKorkan> ek: I would be fine if there is always a "demand" from the submission to the standards
11:43:12 <EgeKorkan> q?
11:43:45 <kaz> q+
11:44:16 <EgeKorkan> mm: not really. A use case can be explaining how WoT is used
11:44:20 <EgeKorkan> ek: why do we care?
11:44:29 <EgeKorkan> mm: because the W3C is asking for it when we go to REC
11:44:54 <EgeKorkan> lb: somebody can ask for a feature but there has to be a why.
11:45:09 <EgeKorkan> ... we also have the other side. I want a pony but there is no detail on what is going on
11:46:38 <Mizushima> ack luca
11:47:01 <EgeKorkan> lb: we should welcome use cases when a company says "we want to use WoT because we cant and here is the reason why"
11:47:53 <McCool> q+
11:48:15 <EgeKorkan> lb: I also agree that categories is a good idea
11:48:30 <EgeKorkan> mm: we have several problems
11:48:33 <Mizushima> ack McCool
11:48:44 <EgeKorkan> mm: in a use case, people may not provide enough detail
11:48:59 <EgeKorkan> mm: then developers who have a limitation that is blocking them
11:49:32 <EgeKorkan> mm: and in the end going to REC, we have explain why we are working on the standards
11:49:54 <EgeKorkan> mm: last problem is that we also have a lot of use cases.
11:53:02 <EgeKorkan> q+
11:53:05 <McCool> my proposal: separate use cases and feature requests.  Feature requests can be in the form of user stories, and link a feature to a purpose.  The purpose can be a single use case or a category of use cases (e.g. use cases needing efficiency).  If accepted, a feature request becomes a requirement.
11:55:40 <Mizushima> q+
11:55:44 <EgeKorkan> ek: we can use the current template since if they don't provide a technical expectation it can be a user story
11:56:23 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/transitions/issues/new?assignees=plehegar&labels=Awaiting+Team+Verification%2C+Entering+CR&projects=&template=6.3.07-candidate-recommendation.md&title=CR+Request+for+%3Ctitle%3E+-+%3Cspecification+shortname%3E Transition Issue for CR
11:56:39 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/policies/process/#transition-cr Process Doc
11:56:50 <EgeKorkan> mm: it can work but it would be cleaner to separate
11:56:57 <EgeKorkan> jr: I agree with separation
11:57:43 <McCool> ack k
11:58:44 <EgeKorkan> kaz: I would like to remind you about the transition process which requires a list of requiremeents. For that we need a document of use cases
11:59:12 <kaz> s/about/of/
11:59:15 <EgeKorkan> ... and feature requests can be formed from requirements
11:59:32 <kaz> s/transition process/W3C Process/
11:59:39 <EgeKorkan> tm: feature request driven by use case is good. We need evidence of feature request requirements
11:59:54 <EgeKorkan> ... I agree with mccool
12:00:46 <EgeKorkan> ek: could you provide definition and example of each terminology we want to use?
12:00:50 <kaz> s/a list of requiremeents/us to show the fact the specification (as a CR) meets all the WG's requirements/
12:00:51 <EgeKorkan> mm: I will try that in an issue
12:01:29 <kaz> kaz: and McCool, please talk with Mizushima-san again about how to organize the UC calls./
12:01:33 <kaz> mm: will do
12:01:36 <kaz> [adjourned]
12:01:38 <kaz> rrsagent,
12:01:38 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand '', kaz.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
12:01:43 <kaz> s/rrsagent,//
12:01:50 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:01:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/09-wot-uc-minutes.html kaz
12:02:34 <kaz> i/and Mc/scribenick: kaz/
12:02:36 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:02:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/09-wot-uc-minutes.html kaz
12:03:51 <kaz> s/remind you/remind you all/
12:03:52 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:03:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/09-wot-uc-minutes.html kaz
12:04:12 <kaz> s/For that/For that purpose,/
12:04:21 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:04:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/09-wot-uc-minutes.html kaz
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