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13:23:44 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/10/04-pmwg-irc
13:23:44 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:23:45 <Zakim> Meeting: Publishing Maintenance Working Group
13:23:58 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2024-10-04: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pm-wg/2024Oct/0000.html
13:23:59 <ivan> Chair: wendy
13:23:59 <ivan> Date: 2024-10-04
13:23:59 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pm-wg/2024Oct/0000.html
13:24:00 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing Maintenance Working Group Telco
13:24:00 <ivan> Regrets+ matt
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13:59:51 <AvneeshSingh> present+
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14:00:31 <George> present+
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14:01:03 <wendyreid> present+
14:01:15 <ivan> present+
14:01:21 <dhall> present+
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14:02:33 <rickj> scribe+
14:02:37 <ivan> present+ gpellegrino
14:02:40 <gpellegrino> present+
14:02:42 <ivan> present+ AvneeshSingh
14:02:51 <ivan> present+ marisa
14:02:59 <wendyreid> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/tpac202409/
14:03:10 <rickj> Wendy: reminder to take the TPAC survey
14:03:11 <ivan> present+ ivan_wong
14:03:35 <ivan> present+ hadrien
14:03:53 <wendyreid> Topic: Republish EPUB 3.3
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14:04:16 <rickj> Wendy: First topic: republishing EPUB 3.3
14:04:53 <ivan> topic: republishing EPUB 3.3
14:05:08 <ivan> q+
14:05:12 <wendyreid> ack ivan
14:05:12 <rickj> ... need to republish before next work so we have a 'clean slate'
14:05:42 <rickj> Ivan: Matt has prepared editorial version
14:06:20 <rickj> ... other changes are prepared, awaiting approval, and would replace the existing
14:06:38 <rickj> ... absent comments or objections, we would then republish
14:06:56 <rickj> ... open question about notifying AC about this change
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14:07:15 <rickj> ... need a formal resolution from WG to do this
14:07:23 <wendyreid> q?
14:07:31 <ikkwong> present+
14:09:34 <wendyreid> Proposed: Republish EPUB 3.3, EPUB Reading Systems 3.3, and EPUB Accessibility 1.1 as Candidate Amendments
14:09:46 <George> +1
14:09:46 <gpellegrino> +1
14:09:46 <rickj> +1
14:09:47 <ivan> +1
14:09:47 <dhall> +1
14:09:48 <wendyreid> +1
14:09:49 <ikkwong> +1
14:09:53 <AvneeshSingh> +1
14:10:04 <toshiakikoike> +1
14:10:31 <wendyreid> RESOLVED: Republish EPUB 3.3, EPUB Reading Systems 3.3, and EPUB Accessibility 1.1 as Candidate Amendments
14:10:47 <wendyreid> Topic: New Charter
14:10:59 <rickj> wendyreid: next topic: new charter
14:11:21 <rickj> ... Ivan working on the contents of the new charter, to represent the discussion from TPAC
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14:12:06 <ivan> -> PR for new charter https://github.com/w3c/publ-maintenance-wg-charter/pull/20
14:12:11 <rickj> q+
14:12:28 <wendyreid> scribe+
14:13:04 <wendyreid> ack rickj
14:13:26 <wendyreid> rickj: I could not remember if part of the new charter discussion and working group is the maintenance of EPUBCheck?
14:13:32 <wendyreid> ... where does that live now?
14:14:01 <wendyreid> ivan: It's not the responsibility of the WG, we have a formal liaison relationship with the maintainer
14:14:11 <wendyreid> ... it's not on our charter, and it cannot be
14:14:16 <wendyreid> ... we did not develop it
14:14:27 <rickj> scribe+
14:14:49 <rickj> AvneeshSingh: EPUBCheck not a part of WG
14:14:50 <wendyreid> AvneeshSingh: A little history, we proposed to the former CEO of W3C, why EPUBCheck is not part of PWG because the entire publishing industry depends on EPUBCheck
14:15:07 <wendyreid> ... he said that the HTML validator is maintained by W3C, CSS, etc
14:15:11 <wendyreid> ... why not EPUB's
14:15:21 <wendyreid> ... do we possibly need to discuss this with the new CEO
14:15:29 <wendyreid> ... if the WG needs to maintain it
14:16:13 <rickj> Ivan: any software development at W3C requires resources, which are not available
14:16:38 <rickj> ... discussion in past with members considered as creating competition
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14:17:19 <rickj> ... talk to Ralph and get advice before talking with Seth
14:18:14 <rickj> AvneeshSingh: steering committee needs to appoint a new liaison with EPUBCheck
14:18:51 <rickj> Ivan: WG also has formal liaison
14:19:28 <ivan> -> Current new version https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/publ-maintenance-wg-charter/pull/20.html#scope
14:19:52 <Hadrien> present+
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14:20:07 <MasakazuKitahara> present+
14:20:13 <shiestyle> present+
14:20:16 <rickj> Ivan: essential part of new spec is the scope
14:20:27 <rickj> ... two blocks of new features we might want to look at
14:20:43 <rickj> ... reminder of current charter limitations
14:21:32 <rickj> ... discussions from TPAC: webtoons issue (scrolled comics)
14:22:50 <rickj> ... annotations issue to define a standard (referencing Readium work)
14:23:16 <rickj> ... questions about a11y issues with annotations
14:24:14 <rickj> ... 3rd thing: (from breakout meeting) around fxl and spreads
14:24:52 <rickj> .... last item: if web assembly files are allowed in EPUB
14:25:08 <wendyreid> q?
14:25:57 <rickj> ... unsure if any a11y changes should be included.  Please give comments
14:25:59 <Hadrien> q+
14:26:26 <rickj> ... changes could be done by candidate editions, not working draft, pr, cr route
14:27:14 <rickj> ... another block are things we know are subjects of discussions, and may in the future be in final rec
14:27:42 <rickj> ... questions about including or not.  Do we commit to producing a recommendation here
14:28:18 <rickj> ... xhtml/html question...
14:28:35 <rickj> ... general a11y issues of graphic novels in general
14:30:06 <rickj> Hadrien: annotations will be in next release of Thorium
14:30:19 <George> q+
14:30:22 <rickj> ... discussion around anchoring back to text
14:30:40 <wendyreid> ack Hadrien
14:31:04 <rickj> propose to add to list: flow, ability to mix publications
14:31:22 <rickj> ... with spreads problem is not just RS, but also how content is authored
14:31:35 <wendyreid> q+
14:32:02 <rickj> ... manga a11y etc. are issues
14:32:41 <dhall> q+
14:32:43 <wendyreid> ack George
14:33:36 <rickj> George: 3 things:  multiple renditions.  Interesting way to address fxl issues by providing an alternative format in the packaged publication
14:33:44 <Hadrien> q+
14:34:17 <AvneeshSingh> I think we should incubate on simplifying the mechanism of multiple rendations
14:34:26 <rickj> Ivan: multiple renditions was part of 3.2, and wg decided to put it into a note as there were no implementations.  Core doc gives the hooks to do it, but with no implementations cannot pub into standard
14:35:39 <rickj> George: other 2 items: landscape in Europe with EAA (and US with Title 2) imposing more a11y requirements, suggests we have accessible implementations for the required
14:36:32 <rickj> Ivan: unsure how to do that.  testing phase was feature by feature.  lots of work to revisit
14:37:09 <rickj> ... would need similar tests to test a11y, which would require 2 implementations for each feature
14:37:38 <rickj> ... could be a wg issue, but needs input from task force
14:38:45 <rickj> George: some features are 'more tricky' than others.  need to identify top issues and test for them
14:38:55 <wendyreid> ack wendyreid
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14:39:42 <AvneeshSingh> q?
14:39:43 <rickj> wendyreid: need to consider which things we want to do that stay in charter and which push us out
14:39:51 <AvneeshSingh> q+
14:40:01 <rickj> ... test suite for EPUB now tests RS rendering, not a11y
14:40:27 <rickj> ... testing RS for a11y means we are testing WCAG
14:41:13 <wendyreid> ack dhall
14:41:51 <rickj> dhall: mention that fxl is not clearly defined in the spec (comment at TPAC from Brady)
14:42:15 <rickj> ... distinction between webtoons and graphic novels
14:43:04 <rickj> ... would be good to have clear definition of different types
14:43:43 <rickj> ... followup: what are the specific concerns, and what is missing?
14:43:48 <wendyreid> ack Hadrien
14:44:27 <rickj> Hadrien: scrolling widely used, but with flow not commonly used
14:45:18 <rickj> ... multiple renditions:  approach was adopted as it was seen as compatible with existing spec
14:46:06 <rickj> ... B&N used it for specific case with newspapers and magazines
14:47:31 <wendyreid> ack AvneeshSingh
14:48:01 <rickj> AvneeshSingh: trend is keeping incubation away from wg's
14:48:19 <rickj> ... concerned about level of incubation that should be in the charter
14:49:10 <rickj> ... timeframe for finalizing new charter, with pressure coming from a11y legislation, and referencing WCAG 2.0/2.1/2.2
14:49:55 <rickj> ... how to validate what we are wanting to do with the business people so we know we are meeting the needs of the market
14:50:20 <rickj> Ivan: trying to keep additional incubations small
14:50:34 <rickj> ... wg allowed to think and discuss these
14:51:27 <rickj> ... may be affected by what happenes in the ?? group with things like SMILE
14:52:26 <rickj> ... by emphasizing the education market for interchangeable annotations market, need input from that market
14:53:06 <rickj> ... any other item should be justified by market need
14:53:09 <wendyreid> s/??/synchronized media/
14:53:14 <wendyreid> s/SMILE/SMIL/
14:54:04 <rickj> ... {reviewed the remainder of the charter}
14:54:39 <rickj> ... added optional item if web annotations needs separate doc or update of existing EPUB spec
14:55:41 <rickj> ... looking for consensus if this is the right way to move on.  Move to steering committee for comments
14:55:46 <rickj> ... and discussion
14:56:27 <rickj> ... estimate that chartering work will go into early 2025
14:58:27 <dhall> q+
14:59:04 <wendyreid> ack dhall
14:59:22 <wendyreid> https://github.com/w3c/publ-maintenance-wg-charter/pull/20
15:01:52 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:01:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/04-pmwg-minutes.html ivan