IRC log of wot on 2024-09-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

21:05:25 [RRSAgent]
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21:05:29 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-wot-irc
21:05:32 [kaz]
topic: Intro
21:05:43 [kaz]
around the table
21:05:59 [gkellogg]
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21:06:03 [jets]
jets: Brian McManus, Ignite retail technology, irc handle is jets
21:07:12 [kaz]
present+ Kaz_Ashimura
21:07:29 [kaz]
meeting: WoT WG/IG - TPAC 2024 - Day 1
21:07:31 [jthomas]
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21:07:32 [ktoumura]
present+ Kunihiko_Toumura
21:07:35 [mjk]
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21:08:26 [jthomas]
present+
21:08:31 [kaz]
agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Wiki_for_F2F_2024_planning
21:09:45 [kaz]
scribenick: sebastian
21:09:55 [sebastian]
<McCool shows the agenda Day 1>
21:12:27 [sebastian]
McCool: we will also talk about AI. Wonsuk Lee from ETRI will join for this topic.
21:12:31 [kaz]
present+ Deniel_Peintner, Ege_Korkan, Mahda_Noura, Michael_Koster, Rob_Atkinson, Tomoaki_Mizushima
21:12:45 [sebastian]
topic: Use Case
21:13:28 [sebastian]
<Tomoaki Mizushima shows slides>
21:14:13 [sebastian]
TM: there are many use cases for the IoT
21:14:37 [kaz]
s/topic: Intro/topic: Opening/
21:14:55 [sebastian]
... we ask the stakeholder to fill out use case template
21:15:01 [kaz]
s/around the table/self introduction around the table/
21:15:29 [sebastian]
<TM shows a use case template>
21:15:36 [kaz]
i|around the table|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/PRESENTATIONS/2024-09-tpac/2024-09-26-WoT-TPAC-Opening-McCool.pdf Slides|
21:15:55 [sebastian]
... use cases are not limited to W3C members
21:16:05 [kaz]
i|<Tomoaki|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/PRESENTATIONS/2024-09-tpac/2024-09-26-WoT-TPAC-UseCases-Mizushima.pdf Slides|
21:16:28 [sebastian]
... template has a simple structure
21:17:05 [sebastian]
... we asking about use case background and the specific problem statement
21:17:52 [kaz]
i|use case are not|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/issues/new?assignees=&labels=UC&projects=&template=use-case-template.yml&title=Provide+a+title+for+your+use+case... Use Case Template|
21:18:04 [kaz]
rrsagent, make log public
21:18:09 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
21:18:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-wot-minutes.html kaz
21:18:27 [sebastian]
<TM shows the process how are Use Case created at the use case repository>
21:18:44 [sebastian]
s/Case/Cases
21:19:35 [sebastian]
TM: if you have a question, you can create a issue
21:19:48 [kaz]
present+ Michael_McCool, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Josh_Thomas, Brian_McManus, Sungpil_Shin, Tetsuhiko_Hirata, Kunihiko_Toumura, Jay_Kishigami
21:20:25 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
21:20:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-wot-minutes.html kaz
21:20:53 [kaz]
chair: McCool, Sebastian, Koster
21:21:16 [sebastian]
EK: TD TF wants to use the Use Case process to turn worthy issues into use cases
21:21:32 [sebastian]
... we had 3 trials so far
21:22:14 [sebastian]
... tomorrow in TD session there will be background
21:22:56 [sebastian]
McCool: Use cases is always the first process to implement new features
21:22:58 [sebastian]
q+
21:23:47 [sebastian]
SK: is there a clear border between small feature and bigger concept request
21:23:52 [sebastian]
?
21:24:14 [kaz]
s/?//
21:24:18 [kaz]
q?
21:24:22 [kaz]
ack s
21:24:51 [sebastian]
McCool: I have some slides about the kind of process
21:25:04 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
21:25:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-wot-minutes.html kaz
21:25:15 [sebastian]
<McCool shows slide #3>
21:25:50 [kaz]
s/topic: Use Case/topic: Use Cases and Requirements/
21:26:35 [kaz]
i|https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/PRESENTATIONS/2024-09-tpac/2024-09-26-WoT-TPAC-UseCases-Mizushima.pdf|subtopic: Use Cases|
21:26:45 [sebastian]
McCool: the default process is that we have a UC description, we will derive requirements which will be reflected by work items
21:27:28 [sebastian]
McCool: there is a requirement format
21:27:36 [kaz]
i|<McCool shows|subtopic: Requirements|
21:27:58 [kaz]
i|<McCool shows|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/PRESENTATIONS/2024-09-tpac/2024-09-26-WoT-TPAC-Requirements-McCool.pdf Slides|
21:28:14 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
21:28:16 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-wot-minutes.html kaz
21:28:30 [sebastian]
... user story template is "As a PERSONA, I want CAPABILITY so that PURPOSE."
21:28:52 [kaz]
i|TM shows a use case template|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/issues/new?assignees=&labels=UC&projects=&template=use-case-template.yml&title=Provide+a+title+for+your+use+case... Use Case Template|
21:29:01 [sebastian]
McCool: what is the different between Functional vs Technical Requirements?
21:29:19 [sebastian]
... functional is about "Why"
21:29:31 [sebastian]
... technical is about "What"
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21:29:52 [kaz]
present+ David_Ezell
21:30:37 [sebastian]
<McCool shows a use case story example; slide 6>
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21:32:37 [sebastian]
<... and Requirement examples; slide 7>
21:33:06 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
21:33:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-wot-minutes.html kaz
21:33:28 [kaz]
present+ Will_Abramson
21:33:31 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
21:33:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-wot-minutes.html kaz
21:34:38 [EgeKorkan]
q+ to talk about the need for use case if one can write a requirement like in the example
21:34:38 [dezell]
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21:34:47 [dezell]
present+ David_Ezell
21:36:41 [sebastian]
McCool: We assign some categories such as Privacy, Cloud Integration, etc.
21:37:09 [sebastian]
... special cases are Security and privacy requirements
21:37:31 [sebastian]
... those are generally to mitigate "risks"
21:38:37 [sebastian]
McCool: last slide shows a suggested plan
21:39:14 [sebastian]
... we should expand the requirement section in use cases and requirements document to define requirments and connect them to use cases
21:39:23 [EgeKorkan]
q?
21:39:33 [sebastian]
... we should also keep everything simple
21:39:34 [kaz]
present+ Rob_Warren
21:39:36 [dezell]
q+
21:39:46 [McCool]
q?
21:39:48 [sebastian]
McCool: we have time for questions
21:39:55 [zkis]
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21:40:18 [zkis]
q?
21:40:43 [kaz]
q+
21:40:53 [sebastian]
EK: for me is not enough to provide detail description of a requirement. We need a good understanding, what is the impact of, e.g. TD
21:41:49 [sebastian]
McCool: we are not consultans.
21:42:20 [Rob-OGC]
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21:42:25 [kaz]
s/consultas/consultants/
21:42:45 [Rob-OGC]
q+
21:42:52 [sebastian]
... there is a problem that provided use cases are not very detailful
21:43:02 [EgeKorkan]
ack e
21:43:02 [Zakim]
EgeKorkan, you wanted to talk about the need for use case if one can write a requirement like in the example
21:44:19 [sebastian]
DE: I'm confused about the slide 7. Not sure what case 3 has to do with "Profile"?
21:46:23 [sebastian]
<McCool shows the WoT Security and Architecture Spec 1.1>
21:46:54 [kaz]
-> https://w3c.github.io/wot-security/#wot-threat-model-stakeholders WoT Security - 3..1 WoT Primary Stakeholders
21:47:13 [sebastian]
... there are places which list the different stakeholders
21:47:23 [sebastian]
q?
21:47:28 [sebastian]
ack de
21:47:53 [sebastian]
Kaz: I'm agree with McCool approach
21:48:43 [sebastian]
... for use cases, we need to clarify first the stakeholders and then about the need
21:49:20 [sebastian]
McCool: I will make an alternative suggestion tomorrow
21:49:33 [sebastian]
ack k
21:50:17 [kaz]
present+ Zoltan_Kis
21:51:10 [sebastian]
Rob: there is a different between use case and use case scenario
21:51:18 [kaz]
q+
21:51:27 [kaz]
s/different/difference/
21:51:30 [sebastian]
... how to handle connection to ontologies?
21:51:38 [McCool]
q+
21:51:45 [kaz]
q- later
21:51:54 [kaz]
ack r
21:51:55 [sebastian]
... and language models
21:51:56 [kaz]
ack m
21:52:29 [sebastian]
McCool: it would be great if you can provide links of good use cases samples
21:53:49 [sebastian]
Rob: there is Spatial Data on the Web WG as a good example
21:54:03 [sebastian]
McCool: tomorrow we have a joint meeting
21:54:10 [sebastian]
q?
21:54:12 [sebastian]
ack k
21:54:40 [sebastian]
topic: Discovery
21:54:49 [EgeKorkan]
topic: Refactoring
21:54:55 [EgeKorkan]
scribenick: EgeKorkan
21:54:59 [EgeKorkan]
topic: Refactoring
21:55:19 [EgeKorkan]
mm: The one that caused the most discussion is architecture document
21:55:28 [EgeKorkan]
... whether it should be informative or normative
21:55:31 [hirata]
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21:55:47 [kaz]
i|tomorrow|kaz: tx for your input, Rob! For this WoT Charter period, it is very important to handle input from other SDOs and W3C groups as use cases and requirements. So let's continue joint discussion :)|
21:55:54 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
21:55:55 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-wot-minutes.html kaz
21:56:01 [EgeKorkan]
... they go into in the beginning to understand WoT and also to understand the organization of other documents
21:56:22 [EgeKorkan]
q+ to say that implementers are not aware of the assertions (features) anyways
21:56:26 [kaz]
i|tx for your|scribenick: kaz|
21:56:36 [kaz]
i|tomorrow|scribenick: sebastian|
21:56:42 [EgeKorkan]
... there are also high level assertions that cannot be tested for the implementation report
21:56:47 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
21:56:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-wot-minutes.html kaz
21:57:14 [EgeKorkan]
... we have to find a solution for the assertions. Should we remove them or move them somewhere
21:57:27 [kaz]
s/topic: Discovery//
21:57:32 [zkis]
but these assertions are not tests that could make Architecture normative...
21:57:35 [kaz]
s/topic: Refactoring//
21:57:39 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
21:57:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-wot-minutes.html kaz
21:57:46 [EgeKorkan]
... about half of the assertions are about security or privacy and other half are about TD/TM and discovery
21:57:57 [EgeKorkan]
... we can migrate them to the relevant documents
21:58:52 [EgeKorkan]
... there are also use cases that belong to the use cases
21:59:48 [EgeKorkan]
... the minimum work is to move the assertions
21:59:50 [kaz]
s/but these assertions are not tests that could make Architecture normative...//
21:59:57 [sebastian]
q+
22:00:32 [kaz]
q+
22:00:37 [EgeKorkan]
... any discussion on this?
22:00:43 [zkis]
q+
22:01:22 [zkis]
q- as Ege made the same point
22:01:27 [zkis]
q-
22:02:31 [kaz]
-> https://w3c.github.io/wot-architecture/testing/report11.html WoT Architecture 1.1 Implementation Report
22:03:12 [EgeKorkan]
ek: implementers do not follow the assertions in any way so there is no danger in removing them altogether
22:03:20 [EgeKorkan]
mm: we have implementation experience
22:03:58 [EgeKorkan]
ek: but those were not implemented by following the spec, they happened to satisfy those
22:04:41 [EgeKorkan]
mm: we have proven their implementability already so they can be moved around
22:04:42 [EgeKorkan]
q?
22:04:45 [EgeKorkan]
ack e
22:04:45 [Zakim]
EgeKorkan, you wanted to say that implementers are not aware of the assertions (features) anyways
22:05:12 [Rob-OGC]
present+
22:05:14 [EgeKorkan]
sk: on one hand, I would say that we should not change a running system
22:05:31 [EgeKorkan]
... on the other, with a 2.0 charter, we have the opportunity to make bigger changes
22:06:55 [sebastian]
ack s
22:06:58 [sebastian]
ack k
22:07:08 [EgeKorkan]
... requirements are in architecture somehow, which does not make sense
22:07:31 [EgeKorkan]
kaz: this proposal slide is ok. To agree on a consensus, we need to check the assertions in the document in detail
22:07:37 [EgeKorkan]
q+
22:07:44 [Tomo]
q+
22:07:48 [EgeKorkan]
mm: who can do it though?
22:08:34 [EgeKorkan]
kaz: maybe we should have a basic resolution on this direction
22:08:46 [EgeKorkan]
mm: or we do nothing, simply
22:08:59 [EgeKorkan]
kaz: going to TR track, we will get wide review again
22:10:42 [EgeKorkan]
mm: we have to evaluate them one by one and they can move into the TD since that is the only document we have committed to publish as REC
22:10:53 [kaz]
s/this direction/this direction, and then think about who, how, when to do the changes as the next steps./
22:10:53 [EgeKorkan]
q?
22:13:22 [EgeKorkan]
ek: I am fine with going through them one by one but I strongly think that implementers are not aware of them nor did they read those assertions when implementing
22:13:50 [EgeKorkan]
mm: that is not true. They submitted implementation experience
22:14:09 [sebastian]
ack E
22:14:11 [sebastian]
ack T
22:14:24 [EgeKorkan]
ek: no, I say with implementers and "forced" them to submit pass/fail in the csv. They did not read to implement their implementation
22:14:24 [kaz]
s/get wide review again/we need to explain why Architecture need to be a Rec Track document during the wide review again./
22:14:25 [Wonsuk]
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22:14:48 [EgeKorkan]
tm: Architecture is an important document. It is important to explain the relationship
22:14:54 [EgeKorkan]
... between the documents
22:15:07 [EgeKorkan]
mm: It will stay and will be like an explainer
22:15:36 [kaz]
s/relationship/relationship between the documents/
22:15:51 [kaz]
s/... between the documents//
22:15:55 [McCool]
proposal: Adopt the plan to convert Architecture to an informative document, with existing assertions to be evaluated and removed or moved to other normative documents.
22:15:56 [EgeKorkan]
(to be inserted after my point with "forced") sk: we have to follow the formalism.
22:16:17 [sebastian]
+1
22:17:03 [EgeKorkan]
q+
22:17:18 [McCool]
proposal: Adopt the plan in https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/PRESENTATIONS/2024-09-tpac/2024-09-26-WoT-TPAC-Requirements-McCool.pdf to convert Architecture to an informative document, with existing assertions to be evaluated and removed or moved to other normative documents.
22:17:25 [kaz]
s/(to be inserted after my point with "forced") //
22:18:02 [McCool]
proposal: Adopt the plan in https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/PRESENTATIONS/2024-09-tpac/2024-09-26-WoT-TPAC-Requirements-McCool.pdf to convert Architecture to an informative document, with existing assertions to be evaluated and removed or moved to other documents.
22:18:23 [EgeKorkan]
ek: since some assertions are about scripting runtimes, we should remove the word "normative"
22:18:28 [dape]
q?
22:18:31 [EgeKorkan]
ack e
22:18:42 [McCool]
resolution: Adopt the plan in https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/PRESENTATIONS/2024-09-tpac/2024-09-26-WoT-TPAC-Requirements-McCool.pdf to convert Architecture to an informative document, with existing assertions to be evaluated and removed or moved to other documents.
22:19:04 [kaz]
present+ Ding_Wei, Jan_Romann
22:20:20 [kaz]
action: Kaz to talk with PLH about the proposed change of the Architecture
22:21:04 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
22:21:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-wot-minutes.html kaz
22:21:11 [EgeKorkan]
topic: Discovery
22:21:23 [zkis]
q?
22:21:25 [EgeKorkan]
mm: got sucked into another thing and do not have time to work on the discovery spec
22:21:40 [kaz]
i|The one that ca|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/PRESENTATIONS/2024-09-tpac/2024-09-26-WoT-TPAC-Refactoring-McCool.pdf Slides|
22:21:40 [sebastian]
q+
22:21:48 [EgeKorkan]
mm: we can postpone the discovery work until TD 2.0 is ready.
22:21:50 [dape]
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22:22:09 [EgeKorkan]
... in the meantime, we can publish an errata for the current document and allow submission of TD2.0 instances
22:22:22 [kaz]
i|got sucked|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/PRESENTATIONS/2024-09-tpac/2024-09-26-WoT-TPAC-Discovery-McCool.pdf Slides|
22:22:25 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
22:22:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-wot-minutes.html kaz
22:22:34 [zkis]
q+
22:22:52 [kaz]
q+
22:24:05 [EgeKorkan]
sk: I would not like to have two specs that contradict each. We should check that the discovery supports TD 2.0
22:24:16 [EgeKorkan]
mm: we can do that with an errata and keep the API etc.
22:24:40 [sebastian]
ack s
22:26:09 [EgeKorkan]
zk: I wanted to mention that we have dependency to the discovery spec. There are no algorithms in the discovery etc. If there will be no changes to the spec, the scripting api can go ahead and be flexible in specifying a JS api for discovery
22:26:39 [kaz]
s/we/we (Scripting API/
22:26:46 [kaz]
s/API/API)/
22:27:08 [kaz]
s/dependency to/dependency on/
22:27:31 [McCool]
q?
22:28:11 [EgeKorkan]
mm: at least for the short term, we can do this
22:28:11 [EgeKorkan]
ack
22:28:11 [EgeKorkan]
ack z
22:28:31 [EgeKorkan]
kaz: agree with mm. We do not have to work on Discovery until we get use case and requirements
22:29:06 [McCool]
proposal: Defer work on Discovery until the next charter, but publish errata if necessary to address ambiguity or refinements to work with TD 2.0 or the Scripting API.
22:29:45 [sebastian]
+1
22:29:53 [McCool]
resolution: Defer work on Discovery until the next charter, but publish errata if necessary to address ambiguity or refinements to work with TD 2.0 or the Scripting API.
22:30:06 [kaz]
q?
22:30:09 [kaz]
ack k
22:30:39 [EgeKorkan]
topic: Liaisons
22:30:47 [EgeKorkan]
subtopic: OPC Foundation
22:31:06 [EgeKorkan]
sk: OPC UA is used in manufacturing environments
22:31:07 [kaz]
-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/PRESENTATIONS/2024-09-tpac/2024-09-26-WoT-TPAC-Liaisons-OPCUA-Sebastian.pdf Slides
22:31:22 [kaz]
s|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/PRESENTATIONS/2024-09-tpac/2024-09-26-WoT-TPAC-Liaisons-OPCUA-Sebastian.pdf Slides||
22:31:35 [kaz]
i|OPC UA|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/PRESENTATIONS/2024-09-tpac/2024-09-26-WoT-TPAC-Liaisons-OPCUA-Sebastian.pdf Slides|
22:31:40 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
22:31:42 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-wot-minutes.html kaz
22:31:48 [EgeKorkan]
... the key concept is that we have shopfloor devices. They typically speak different protocols
22:32:13 [EgeKorkan]
... opcua collects this data and presents in its own ecosystem
22:32:30 [EgeKorkan]
... if you have everything in opcua level, it is easy to develop applications.
22:33:10 [EgeKorkan]
... however, there are non opcua devices and the mapping of their datapoints is manual
22:33:36 [EgeKorkan]
... since some months, there is a new spec from OPCF that uses TDs to onboard non opcua devices into OPC UA environments
22:33:45 [EgeKorkan]
... with this spec, TD is part of it
22:34:22 [EgeKorkan]
... we have started the discussion about northbound
22:34:42 [EgeKorkan]
... we want to define an official opc ua binding within the OPC Foundation as a new working group
22:35:04 [EgeKorkan]
... we have biweekly meetings. Next is on October 8th
22:35:13 [EgeKorkan]
... W3C members can simply join
22:36:02 [EgeKorkan]
... we plan the OPC UA binding to be the first external binding for the WoT 2.0 registry
22:36:45 [McCool]
q?
22:37:16 [EgeKorkan]
... there will be more information in the wot week in the end of november
22:37:32 [EgeKorkan]
subtopic: ETSI ISG CIM
22:37:42 [EgeKorkan]
mm: They are doing NGSI-LD
22:37:56 [EgeKorkan]
... the group works on context information management
22:39:19 [EgeKorkan]
... NGSI-LD is the deliverable of interest.
22:39:44 [EgeKorkan]
... we have meeting for the past 6 monhts. Now there are regular meetings since we have a liaison
22:40:09 [Tomo]
Tomo has joined #wot
22:40:13 [EgeKorkan]
... some NGSI=LD entities can be seen as WoT Things. So we would need a binding
22:40:35 [EgeKorkan]
... linking to entities between two systems would also make sens
22:40:41 [EgeKorkan]
s/sens/sense
22:41:01 [kaz]
i|They are do|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/PRESENTATIONS/2024-09-tpac/2024-09-26-WoT-TPAC-Liaisons-ETSI-ISG-CIM-McCool.pdf Slides|
22:41:01 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
22:41:03 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-wot-minutes.html kaz
22:41:10 [kaz]
q+
22:41:20 [EgeKorkan]
... if you have heard of FIWARE and want to see its relation to WoT, please join the meeting
22:41:35 [kaz]
ack k
22:41:49 [EgeKorkan]
https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/8dcbc0bc-b323-44e8-915c-180dee303674/20241014T100000/ is the next event
22:42:10 [EgeKorkan]
mm: we run the NGSI=LD meetings so if you are a member, you can just join
22:43:08 [EgeKorkan]
topic: AIoT
22:44:02 [EgeKorkan]
wl: we want present our proposal for a federated learning API and new TF
22:44:43 [EgeKorkan]
ss: here is the motivation of our work
22:45:02 [EgeKorkan]
... security and privacy is a critical concern in centralized machine learning
22:45:22 [EgeKorkan]
... there is strict regulation of collection and processing of private data, mandated by GDPR
22:45:39 [EgeKorkan]
... centralized ML requires significant resources as well
22:45:40 [kaz]
i|we want pre|-> https://www.w3.org/community/federated-learning/ Federated learning CG|
22:45:53 [kaz]
i|we want pre|@@@ Slides tbd|
22:46:06 [EgeKorkan]
... these can be mitigated by doing federated learning
22:46:21 [EgeKorkan]
... it can learn from data in the client side, so not transmit the data
22:46:38 [EgeKorkan]
... and less burden on the server
22:47:04 [McCool]
(aside: this may be interesting: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ppm-dap/)
22:48:06 [EgeKorkan]
... you can see the architecture and the sequence diagram for the interactions
22:48:35 [EgeKorkan]
... server can update the aggregated parameters and make a new global model
22:48:52 [EgeKorkan]
... this can happen cyclically, thus many times
22:50:33 [EgeKorkan]
... we identified that some WoT use cases are relevant for FL
22:50:37 [McCool]
q+
22:50:56 [EgeKorkan]
... there are some issues we identified as well
22:51:41 [EgeKorkan]
mm: we can define a common interface via thing models
22:51:58 [EgeKorkan]
... for example entering a low power mode
22:51:59 [sebastian]
q+
22:52:05 [sebastian]
ack m
22:52:51 [kaz]
q+
22:53:30 [EgeKorkan]
sk: we should discuss this in a use case and possibly as an AI session
22:53:42 [EgeKorkan]
... we can also invite microsoft
22:53:49 [EgeKorkan]
mm: this can be a CG topic
22:54:26 [EgeKorkan]
ek: we can organize something in a next meeting
22:55:51 [EgeKorkan]
wl: this was one technology. We should consider other AI technologies as well
22:56:07 [EgeKorkan]
... we should create a TF to collect more information
22:56:39 [EgeKorkan]
mm: indeed. FL is one Thing. There are other technologies to consider
22:57:27 [EgeKorkan]
sk: this can be also a plugfest topic
22:58:02 [McCool]
q?
22:58:05 [McCool]
ack s
22:58:09 [McCool]
ack k
22:59:39 [EgeKorkan]
mm: the reason I said CG is because it seems like an incubation topic
23:00:05 [kaz]
q?
23:00:10 [EgeKorkan]
kaz: let's start with the use cases indeed
23:00:35 [EgeKorkan]
mm: we should close the meeting and make dinner plans
23:01:40 [kaz]
s/let's start with the use cases indeed/let's start further collaboration at the WoT CG first, then Use Cases and Requirements at the WoT IG, then concrete standardization at the WoT WG :)/
23:01:43 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
23:01:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-wot-minutes.html kaz
23:02:35 [gkellogg]
gkellogg has joined #wot
23:12:56 [gkellogg_]
gkellogg_ has joined #wot
23:25:56 [McCool]
scribenick: McCool
23:26:11 [McCool]
topic: JSON-LD/WoT Joint Call
23:29:35 [gkellogg]
gkellogg has joined #wot
23:31:47 [gkellogg]
gkellogg has joined #wot
23:32:14 [Rob-OGC]
Rob-OGC has joined #wot
23:32:23 [EricS]
EricS has joined #wot
23:32:27 [gkellogg]
present+
23:32:33 [Tomo]
Tomo has joined #wot
23:32:40 [EricS]
present+
23:32:54 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
23:32:56 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-wot-minutes.html kaz
23:33:06 [McCool]
seb: starting joint meeting between WoT and JSON-LD WG
23:33:12 [jets]
present+ Brian_McManus
23:33:14 [bigbluehat]
present+
23:33:33 [EgeKorkan]
present+ Ege_Korkan
23:33:42 [kaz]
present+ Ted_Thibodeau
23:33:51 [kaz]
present+ David_Lehn
23:33:54 [McCool]
seb: let's start with introductions
23:34:00 [TallTed]
present+
23:34:05 [ktoumura]
present+ Kunihiko_Toumura
23:34:10 [jthomas]
present+
23:34:10 [Rob-OGC]
present+
23:34:12 [bigbluehat]
present+ Benjamin_Young
23:34:15 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
23:34:16 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-wot-minutes.html kaz
23:34:22 [hirata]
present+ hirata
23:34:26 [McCool]
dl: digital bazaar
23:34:48 [sebastian]
sebastian has joined #wot
23:34:50 [McCool]
gk: indep, json-ld
23:34:50 [dlehn]
present+
23:35:02 [McCool]
hirata: hitachi, wot wg
23:35:20 [Tomo]
present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
23:36:02 [McCool]
jan: ie wot, research univ, constrained devices, coap, SDF
23:36:09 [gkellogg]
present+ Gregg_Kellogg
23:36:15 [McCool]
kaz: team contact w3c
23:36:41 [McCool]
mm: intel, iot, ai, accelerated computing, wot co-chair
23:36:48 [McCool]
koster: iot, wot co-chair
23:37:11 [McCool]
rob: sdw co-chair, ogc, json-ld to link to openapi specs
23:37:30 [McCool]
ted: coding in english
23:37:48 [McCool]
tomo: use case tf of wot
23:38:00 [McCool]
seb: wot co-chair, siemens
23:38:09 [McCool]
josh: ignite, retail
23:38:19 [McCool]
jets: ignite retail
23:38:21 [bengo]
bengo has joined #wot
23:38:28 [McCool]
eric:
23:38:29 [bengo]
present+
23:38:32 [jets]
jthomas: ignite retail
23:38:38 [McCool]
ben: digital bazaar
23:38:47 [McCool]
toumura: hitachi
23:39:00 [McCool]
bengar: social wg
23:39:20 [McCool]
rigo: w3c team ld, legal counsel
23:39:23 [bigbluehat]
s/bengar/bengo
23:39:30 [bigbluehat]
s/ben/bigbluehat
23:39:57 [McCool]
subtopic: Current Status of JSON-LD
23:40:04 [TallTed]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
23:40:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-wot-minutes.html TallTed
23:40:11 [McCool]
seb: update on status of topics relevant to WoT
23:40:22 [Rob-OGC]
bigbluehat lets take this offline for a deep dive... some initial work https://modern-json-schema.com/your-path-from-openapi-30-to-31-and-beyond
23:40:34 [rigo]
rigo has joined #wot
23:41:52 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
23:41:54 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-wot-minutes.html kaz
23:42:00 [TallTed]
s/ben: digital/bigbluehat: digital/
23:42:00 [TallTed]
s/bigbluehatgo/bengo
23:42:00 [TallTed]
s/ted: coding in/TallTed: primary coding language is/
23:42:14 [TallTed]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
23:42:15 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-wot-minutes.html TallTed
23:42:30 [McCool]
gk: have some slides we have been using in other meetings...
23:42:33 [McCool]
seb: please
23:42:45 [bigbluehat]
JSON-LD Star https://json-ld.github.io/w3c-tpac-2024-presentations/json-ld-star/#
23:43:19 [bigbluehat]
CBOR-LD, YAML-LD, and the JSON-LD Recharter: https://json-ld.github.io/w3c-tpac-2024-presentations/json-ld-recharter/
23:43:25 [kaz]
s/EricS/Eric_Schuh/
23:43:26 [McCool]
gk: json-ld cg has been working on RDF-Star
23:43:52 [McCool]
... notable change rather than quoted triples, now have added an indirection though a reifier
23:44:03 [TallTed]
s/TallTed: primary/TallTed: OpenLink Software. W3C WG/CG/XG/IG involvement since 200x. Primary/
23:44:27 [McCool]
... slide 10
23:44:33 [kaz]
s/bengo/Ben_Goering/
23:44:41 [kaz]
present+ Rigo_Wenning
23:44:43 [McCool]
... now have rdf:reifies relationship
23:44:44 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
23:44:45 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-wot-minutes.html kaz
23:44:59 [McCool]
... json does not have special syntax for quoted values
23:45:10 [McCool]
... so use the @triple tag
23:45:43 [McCool]
seb: so there is an additional annotation
23:45:45 [McCool]
q+
23:46:15 [McCool]
gk: opaque term that has the form of a triple, can talk about it without claiming it is true
23:46:43 [McCool]
ack m
23:46:43 [kaz]
present+ Pierre-Antoine_Champin, Alexandre_Bertails
23:47:00 [McCool]
mm: summary is syntax exists, but we need to understand the use cases
23:47:08 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
23:47:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-wot-minutes.html kaz
23:47:16 [McCool]
gk: many use cases can be handled in other ways
23:47:56 [McCool]
mm: may be useful for property graphs
23:48:12 [McCool]
gk: in my opinion, only real good use is to support property graphs
23:48:33 [McCool]
seb: could also be used for versioning
23:48:50 [McCool]
gk: one use is when a triple was added
23:49:06 [McCool]
... named graphs were used for this
23:50:20 [McCool]
gk: the @reifies keyword can also be used to give a more compact syntax, can reify more than one triple
23:51:21 [dezell]
dezell has joined #wot
23:51:30 [dezell]
present+ David_Ezell
23:51:58 [McCool]
gk: there is also an annotation style, using @annotation
23:52:30 [McCool]
... annotates set of triples
23:53:10 [McCool]
... means there are three reserved keywords, all starting with the @ sign
23:53:23 [bigbluehat]
q+
23:53:31 [McCool]
gk: we are working on rechartering to include these
23:53:49 [McCool]
... so at this point this only a non-normative proposal
23:54:16 [McCool]
... but we also have to wait until RDF-Star is normative, JSON-LD syntax follows
23:54:48 [bigbluehat]
CBOR-LD, YAML-LD, and the JSON-LD Recharter: https://json-ld.github.io/w3c-tpac-2024-presentations/json-ld-recharter/
23:54:57 [McCool]
... the above was developed in the CG, when we charter will need support
23:55:16 [EgeKorkan]
EgeKorkan has joined #wot
23:55:22 [McCool]
ben: next is CBOR-LD
23:55:31 [pchampin]
pchampin has joined #wot
23:55:36 [McCool]
... this is a semantic compression format for JSON-LD
23:55:52 [McCool]
... maps terms into numbers using context
23:57:17 [McCool]
... have a registry that maps context files to numbers
23:57:47 [McCool]
... every term associated with context gets assigned a number when the context becomes active
23:58:20 [McCool]
q+
23:58:46 [McCool]
... (works through examples in slides)
23:59:08 [McCool]
ack b