18:04:19 RRSAgent has joined #apa 18:04:24 logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-apa-irc 18:04:24 agenda+ -> Well-known destinations https://github.com/w3c/adapt/blob/add-explainers/explainers/well-known-destinations.md - we would like your views on the best way to proceed with this spec: we currently have two potential routes to implementation. 18:04:27 nigel has joined #apa 18:04:30 agenda+ 👍 1 reaction 18:04:31 agenda+ 👍 1 reaction 18:04:33 agenda+ ❤️ 1 reaction 18:04:35 agenda+ 👍 2 reactions 18:04:38 agenda+ ❤️ 1 reaction 18:04:40 agenda+ zstd and brotli. Is it acceptable to add support only for decompression? 18:04:42 zakim, bye 18:04:42 leaving. As of this point the attendees have been matatk, PaulG, Roy, iali, gautierchomel, Dr_Keith, Fredrik, mike_beganyi, Angela, joncohn, present, MasakazuKitahara, 18:04:42 Zakim has left #apa 18:04:43 agenda+ Design of the options bag 18:04:45 ... AvneeshSingh, shiestyle, wendyreid, mgarrish, George, duga, CharlesL, ikkwong, jkamata, gpellegrino, Hadrien, hiroki_endo, toshiakikoike, tzviya, Daihei, JenStrickland, janina, 18:04:45 ... Sheri_B-H, jkline, Lionel_Wolberger, Fazio, jaunita_george, chaals, julierawe, Russell, past, Adam_Page 18:04:45 agenda+ Chris Wilson (Google) 18:04:47 agenda+ Panos Asthitas (Google) 18:04:50 agenda+ Simon Pieters (Mozilla) 18:04:52 agenda+ Jeremy Roman (Google) 18:04:54 agenda+ Vladimir Levin (Google) 18:04:57 agenda+ Anne van Kesteren (Apple) 18:05:00 agenda+ Sanket Joshi (Microsoft) 18:05:02 agenda+ Siye Liu (Microsoft) 18:05:04 agenda+ Daniel Clark (Microsoft) 18:05:06 agenda+ Kurt Catti-Schmidt (Microsoft) 18:05:09 agenda+ Noam Rosenthal (Google) 18:05:09 agendabot, bye 18:05:10 jyasskin has joined #apa 18:05:11 agendabot has left #apa 18:05:13 agenda+ Dominic Farolino (Google) 18:05:13 present+ 18:05:16 agenda+ Domenic Denicola (Google) 18:05:18 agenda+ Olli Pettay (Mozilla) 18:05:20 agenda+ Benjamin Lesh (Invited Expert) 18:05:21 Zakim has joined #apa 18:05:23 agenda+ Khushal Sagar (Google) 18:05:25 agenda+ Fernando Serboncini (Google) 18:05:28 agenda+ Ryosuke Niwa (Apple) 18:05:30 agenda+ Mason Freed (Google) 18:05:32 agenda+ Michael Smith (W3C) 18:05:35 agenda+ Chris Harrelson (Google) 18:05:37 agenda+ Rob Flack (Google) 18:05:39 agenda+ Joey Arhar (Google) 18:05:42 agenda+ Ethan Jimenez (Microsoft) 18:05:43 Roy has left #apa 18:05:44 agenda+ Kagami Rosylight (Mozilla) 18:05:47 agenda+ Di Zhang (Google) 18:05:49 Roy has joined #apa 18:05:49 agenda+ Lea Verou (Invited Expert) 18:05:51 agenda+ Many people potentially not logged here 18:05:54 agenda+ -> Terms https://docs.github.com/site-policy/github-terms/github-terms-of-service 18:05:57 agenda+ -> Privacy https://docs.github.com/site-policy/privacy-policies/github-privacy-statement 18:06:00 agenda+ -> Security https://github.com/security 18:06:02 agenda+ -> Status https://www.githubstatus.com/ 18:06:05 agenda+ -> Docs https://docs.github.com/ 18:06:07 agenda+ -> Contact https://support.github.com?tags=dotcom-footer 18:06:10 agenda+ Manage cookies 18:06:12 agenda+ Do not share my personal information 18:06:43 zakim, clear agenda 18:06:43 agenda cleared 18:06:49 agenda? 18:06:55 zakim, start meeting 18:06:55 RRSAgent, make logs Public 18:06:57 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Roy 18:07:14 meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group, WHATWG Joint Meeting 18:07:30 RRSAgent, make minutes 18:07:31 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-apa-minutes.html Roy 18:08:50 agenda? 18:09:16 scribenick: hdv 18:09:33 topic: ARIA attribute reflection 18:09:34 topic: ARIA attribute reflection 18:09:44 rrsagent, make minutes 18:09:45 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-apa-minutes.html matatk 18:11:06 annevk: there is this mismatch between ARIA and HTML because none of them are defined as enumerated attributes 18:11:07 fserb has joined #apa 18:11:13 present+ 18:11:31 annevk: tthere was a discussion on Monday, people involved probably already know next steps, can skip it here maybe 18:11:59 matatk: I thought quesiton would be about cross root referencing 18:12:21 https://github.com/w3ctag/gaps/issues/2 18:12:23 matatk: general problem with that issue, that Lea and Jeffrey raised, about referencing to elements in general 18:12:43 q+ 18:12:50 matatk: with mix of people in the room you may have thoughts 18:13:26 ack JenStrickland 18:13:29 ack jyasskin 18:13:53 jyasskin: solution that was raised my solve it for ARIA too 18:13:58 matatk: ok we'll look at the minutes 18:14:01 RRSAgent, make minutes 18:14:02 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-apa-minutes.html Roy 18:14:16 topic: Symbols 18:14:44 The session I mentioned: https://github.com/w3c/tpac2024-breakouts/issues/30 18:14:50 matatk: problem we're trying to solve: some people want symbols to better understand what's on the page 18:15:21 janina: these people have used symbols for ages, before the internet 18:15:27 watch the Theory of everything. Stephen Hawking used them to communicate 18:15:35 janina: that are not intereropable… we're talking 100s of 1000s of people 18:15:43 q+ 18:15:52 janina: we probably can't markup everything on the web but probably can do procedures and signposts for general things 18:16:08 zcorpan has joined #apa 18:16:19 present+ 18:16:23 khush9 has joined #apa 18:16:27 Fazio: to understand how important this is… imagine Stephen Hawking not being able to communicate… when he got ill he learned how to communicate without speaking through physical symbols 18:16:57 janina: Cambridge University hired somebody to voice him because he was important 18:17:01 Fazio: and Intel sponsored him 18:17:32 Also known as Alternative Augmentative Communication (AAC) 18:17:50 matatk: the card [we just handed out] has symbols on both sides that signify the same concepts but they are different and people's preferences differ 18:18:11 matatk: the kind of killer app we're targeting to start with… people who need symbols to help them understand things will read text, but symbols give them context 18:18:22 matatk: they come to the web for video content as it is easier to take in in general 18:18:34 matatk: so the sorts of things we're looking to add symbols to is @@@ 18:18:42 s/.@@@/chapters 18:19:03 https://github.com/w3c/adapt/blob/add-explainers/explainers/symbols.md 18:19:04 https://www.w3.org/TR/adapt/ 18:19:29 matatk: our idea is to have an attribute that somehow authors use, they set the attribute to indicate the concept they're trying to show 18:19:39 matatk: the concept is how we'll map to different symbol sets 18:19:57 matatk: eg symbol for the concept of cooking is diffferent in different symbol sets 18:20:09 matatk: the number of symbols is 0 if target set doesn't have a symbol for it 18:20:18 janina: kind of like how a word is made up of letters 18:20:37 Most widely used AAC symbols: https://omazingkidsllc.com/2021/04/11/most-widely-used-aac-symbols/ 18:20:44 matatk: we're not experts on AAC but we work with an organisation whose dictionary of concepts we use 18:21:14 matatk: because they maintain this dictionary of concepts, which is more comprehensive than other symbol sets, we went to them… we're not using it in a language or translation sense 18:21:23 q+ 18:21:26 matatk: in the future we want it to be the symbol set that the user wants 18:21:28 q+ 18:21:52 matatk: we don't know the number of the symbol, only once we know which symbol set they use 18:22:19 matatk: we've had a number of approaches suggested 18:22:35 matatk: when we started this, we had an attribute… the thing is how to we key in to the dictionary that bliss gives us 18:22:43 matatk: originally we had their concept ID, which is just an integer 18:22:52 matatk: each concept has an id 18:23:20 matatk: we had a long running issue where people were suggesting that as a subset of bliss is going into Unicode we should use Unicode 18:23:35 matatk: bliss is also a well known organisation but not globally 18:23:50 q+ jyasskin to ask about word names for the concepts 18:23:53 matatk: bliss has about 1400 chars going to Unicode, but many more that aren't 18:24:08 matatk: if you want to represent some concept, you can't just look up the Unicode code point and look that up directly 18:24:21 matatk: at that point you're asking the author to know about bliss 18:24:23 noamr has joined #apa 18:24:37 present+ annevk 18:25:21 annevk: versions are an established thing in the Unicode world; eg if you have like a wavy hand, you can give it a skin tone 18:25:34 matatk: taking that idea; if it was rendered as a character it could look like that character 18:25:45 annevk: I wonder if that can be addressed through fonts 18:25:56 matatk: lots of symbol sets are pictures 18:26:03 Keep in mind, to be useful users wouldn't use individual symbols they would combine symbols to illustrate a though or sentence or action 18:26:15 annevk: fonts these days are pictures too 18:27:07 matatk: but sometimes a symbol is one thing to the user but @@@ 18:27:15 jyasskin: can do with fonts but depends 18:27:18 Adam_Page: yes with ligatures 18:27:30 jyasskin: so they can combine multiple things 18:27:50 jyasskin: so is technically possible, not necessarily best way but is possible 18:28:25 Fazio: user would not necessarily press a button with symbol on a website but would sometimes press the button on their AAC device… ideally would use a number of symbols to convey an action 18:28:41 Fazio: I don't know if that's possible with what we're talking about 18:28:46 annevk: that's more like an input method 18:28:59 matatk: good context of how folks communicate, we're doing the other way around 18:29:04 q+ 18:29:09 matatk: they want to know what each is about 18:29:22 janina: i think we'll get that when we talk to rtc 18:30:10 annevk: this illustrates to me how important it is to get this into Unicode, given how widespread Unicode is and how core it is to how we communicate 18:30:30 q- 18:30:32 annevk: if we don't take it to Unicode and do it in markup, you get the same problem as @@@ eg with Japanese 18:30:47 annevk: given how vital it is to this community it is important to make sure it is in Unicode 18:30:56 janina: it's on its way into Unicode 18:31:07 annevk: but only a subset 18:31:34 matatk: effort to get bliss into Unicode has been mostly building blocks for making bliss symbols… some are in there because they are simple 18:31:41 matatk: what goes into Unicode is not the whole dictionary 18:31:46 janina: enough to communicate the concepts for rendering 18:31:49 q? 18:32:10 matatk: we looked at this, from authoring perspective is possible to use Unicode 18:32:32 matatk: let me show an indication of what an authoring tool may be like. W3C made a registry of what this could look like 18:32:36 https://www.w3.org/TR/aac-registry/ 18:32:56 [shares authoring tool on screen] 18:33:14 q? 18:33:26 annevk: this could be solved with an input method, eg just like how you enter Japanese on a phone 18:33:28 ack Fazio 18:33:36 ack zcorpan 18:33:58 zcorpan: Unicode is the correct layering in my opinion, should focus your efforts to get everything into Unicode and not HTML 18:34:17 zcorpan: if Unicode is too slow, use custom elements or a polyfill or something. I think it doesn't make sense to add it into HTML as well as into Unicode 18:34:19 annevk: I agree 18:34:29 ack jyasskin 18:34:29 jyasskin, you wanted to ask about word names for the concepts 18:34:36 zcorpan: as far as I can tell it supports technically what you want to do 18:35:09 jyasskin: agree Unicode is the right place… feel it's similar to ruby but not exactly… the attribute that says whicih one it is… I think I'd suggest to allow the input, for things that aren't in Unicode, use strings rather than number 18:35:13 s/number/numbers 18:35:24 jyasskin: the registry has strings 18:35:28 q? 18:35:28 q? 18:36:08 matatk: if we did that and we have a way to key into dictionary of concepts that exists… but how do we turn that into the right symbol for the user? 18:36:20 q+ 18:36:29 matatk: if we don't want to add that to HTML… are we saying we don't need an attribute to mark up the concepts? where do we put the key? 18:36:42 q+ janina 18:37:10 annevk: if you have one of these characters… what you're asking for… there are two users where one would want to see one symbol and the other multiple… is that what we're trying to cater for? 18:37:38 anenvk: I think it could be as simple as using a diferent font to display specific Unicode code points 18:38:04 matatk: practical thing is… how symbols industry works, they produce PNGs or SVGs… how do we cater to the fact that the format they're using is not fonts…  18:38:11 maryjom has joined #apa 18:38:14 annevk: you can take the SVGs and put them into a font files 18:38:30 PaulG: only works if there are no heteronyms… how can a ligature font tell the diff between life and live? 18:38:43 PaulG: eg which word is it 18:38:51 annevk: the font counts on the unicode code points for bliss 18:39:04 annevk: so the font doesn't tell a difference 18:39:16 zcorpan: user could then even use CSS to override 18:39:31 PaulG: ah ok so author would author the code points 18:39:35 annevk: yes and then it's just a setting in the font somewhere 18:39:46 q? 18:39:49 PaulG: we have to hide that from AT as screenreaders or braille display would have garbage 18:40:19 annevk: presumably operating systems could add support for these code points just like they support emoji now 18:40:41 janina: are we suggesting that all these symbol sets should get their symbols into bliss? 18:40:48 annevk: no just get bliss into Unicode and map to that 18:40:56 q+ 18:41:01 zcorpan: the symbols don't need to be standardised 18:41:08 q+ 18:41:12 ack jyasskin 18:41:21 Ideally images would be universal (standardized) as much as possible 18:41:24 jyasskin: one thing I think I'm hearing… these symbols are alternate representations for things that are on the page 18:41:33 think internationalization 18:41:44 jyasskin: you need some way to tell screenreaders that @@@ 18:41:50 ack janina 18:41:51 q? 18:41:52 q+ 18:41:58 jyasskin: either that's ruby or we're missing an element 18:42:13 s/@@@/they should probably skip reading the symbolic representation/ 18:42:14 Fazio: I know it's not our job to standardise what these look like, but ideally we would try to harmonise 18:42:21 matatk: we think we're covering that by using bliss as the basis for the concept 18:42:28 ack Fazio 18:42:32 q+ 18:42:43 matatk: and then we can have symbols rendered in appropriate cultural context 18:43:05 matatk: so we've talked about alternative representation 18:43:14 q+ 18:43:16 matatk: it would be difficult for symbol producers to put their symbols in a font 18:43:31 q+ jyasskin to mention alternatives to "fonts" 18:43:33 matatk: it sounds like we could what we want with a font… want to make a proof of concept 18:43:50 matatk: we can prototype it with a data attribute… but we still need a place to put it for authors 18:43:56 we have an accessible sag expert if that's a prototype route we want to go 18:44:07 ?SVG not sag 18:44:10 matatk: ruby has been suggested and unsuggested by various people… i18n folks have said probably not use ruby 18:44:18 q? 18:44:33 annevk: it sounds like ruby to me… would suggest use ruby 18:44:43 Zakim, close the queue 18:44:43 ok, hdv, the speaker queue is closed 18:44:56 @@@: what's the argument against ruby? 18:45:22 q? 18:45:27 matatk: see the issue… what I remember from it… it was something like that ruby is meant for Asian script and using it for this was like using it for something it was not meant for 18:45:39 ack matatk 18:46:24 janina: appreciate fazio's input as you lived through this 18:46:27 https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/240 18:46:41 q+ 18:46:52 explainer (draft): https://github.com/w3c/adapt/blob/add-explainers/explainers/symbols.md 18:46:57 q? 18:47:03 fazio: yes it can very much slow people down if they cannot communicate through AAC… it's not just single images or icons, it's an active picture of what's going on 18:47:19 ack Adam_Page 18:47:29 annevk has joined #apa 18:47:45 Adam_Page: probably implicit in this discussion… can see use cases where this is additional and not just alternative 18:47:59 ack CharlesL 18:48:06 Adam_Page: we have lots of icons on the HIlton website… but then allow people to swap our branded icons with these bliss icons 18:48:25 CharlesL: another use case is when symbols are all by themselves, not how ruby works as it is attached to specific words 18:48:47 CharlesL: because, like images, there might be an alt text, but in other cases there is already text there so that an alt text is not needed 18:49:32 annevk: right but if it's in Unicode, like with emojis, there would already be a well defined alternative 18:49:56 q? 18:50:32 annevk: when I look at the discussion with Richard Ishida I don't see, from quick look, things that would stop us from using ruby 18:50:51 ack jyasskin 18:50:51 jyasskin, you wanted to mention alternatives to "fonts" 18:51:07 It's important to not make it too complicated, or people won't do it. 18:51:41 jyasskin: I think there are different semantics these symbols can used with… as a primary representation, or as text in a flow, or as an explanation (that might be ruby)… it sounded like there is a third semantic too… I'd encourage you to list the semantis adn that can drive what we'd pick 18:52:13 jyasskin: we have a mechanism in fonts that drive type of font, pre defined font setes like italics/bold… operating systems have ways to configure those 18:52:21 jyasskin: if it's not fonts maybe it can be something font-like 18:52:47 jyasskin: there is also the author use case… where the website wants to pick the font, eg icons that are part of the branding 18:52:58 q? 18:53:20 +1 to JenStrickland 18:53:34 matatk: sorry that queue is closed, I'd love us to talk before the next TPAC 18:53:49 matatk: with some prototyping we can look at some things to see how technically feasible they are 18:53:58 matatk: we'd like to keep talking…  18:54:08 s/like italics/like monospace/ 18:54:19 s/bold.../fantasy/ 18:54:33 topic: Well-known destinations 18:54:45 Draft explainer: https://github.com/w3c/adapt/blob/add-explainers/explainers/well-known-destinations.md 18:54:55 RRSAgent, draft minutes please 18:54:56 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-apa-minutes.html hdv 18:55:20 matatk: problem from the user's perspective… at the AC meeting earlier in the year, we proposed a technical solution for it that we knew at the time 18:55:37 matatk: in terms of implementation, we thought of two ways that are in the explainer 18:56:09 matatk: the presentation is linked from the explainer 18:56:23 matatk: btw this is still under construction 18:56:48 matatk: the Adapt TF proposes a way for a site to define popular pages they offer, this allows UA to discover which popular pages a site provides 18:57:11 matatk: we're talking about things like home page, product page, contact page etc 18:57:39 matatk: one reason we want to do this is that sites vary in what terms they use 18:58:39 matatk: the central thing to this is that we'd standardise a set of tokens that correspond to popular destinations that exist on a site 18:59:11 matatk: what might this look like from a user perspective? I made a browser extension that did this 18:59:28 matatk: it gives you a menu with links to these specific destination 18:59:36 s/destination/destinations 18:59:42 q+ 18:59:51 q+ to point out this already exists in theory and used to exist in practice (Opera did it first!) 18:59:56 matatk: the destinations vary per site 19:00:07 Zakim, please reopen the queue 19:00:07 ok, fserb, the speaker queue is open 19:00:24 q+ 19:00:24 q+ to point out this already exists in theory and used to exist in practice (Opera did it first!) 19:00:33 q- later 19:00:52 matatk: looking for your suggestions on how to implement it, and querstions re the use case 19:00:54 q? 19:00:58 q+ 19:01:00 ack annevk 19:01:00 annevk, you wanted to point out this already exists in theory and used to exist in practice (Opera did it first!) 19:01:28 annevk: this already exists in HTML today, the element has a specified list 19:01:34 annevk: Opera used to have an implementation of this 19:01:58 annevk: similar to the UI you shared 19:02:07 fserb: Firefox had it as well, but with shortcuts 19:02:28 annevk: so maybe this is more about getting it adopted again, and maybe not a need for a new solution 19:02:32 annevk: the other problem is adoption 19:03:05 matatk: both advised solutions require rel attrs and link types, we very much try to build on what's there with both approaches we look at 19:03:15 ack zcorpan 19:03:18 q+ 19:03:19 zcorpan: wanted to say the same thing as Anne said 19:03:52 zcorpan: also… if you want to provide this UI and have it work, even if the web developer didn't use the link tag, we could still figure it out with heuristics 19:04:12 q? 19:04:41 annevk: I saw you did consider some existing implementation 19:04:50 ack fserb 19:05:40 fserb: how important is it that you'd have these specific well known places with always the same semantics or that it is the most popular? 19:06:17 q+ 19:06:22 matatk: what's important on this page is a really important question, not necessarily what we look at here 19:06:42 matatk: DOM order, landmarks, headings also provide ways to navigate 19:07:02 matatk: what we're trying to provide is sign posts to particular destination, to help people who struggle with that fundamental navigation 19:07:15 matatk: say you go to the contact us page, for those to be highlighted 19:07:23 janina: and everything else greyed 19:07:46 janina: complexity management is a game changer for people with intellectual disabilities 19:08:17 ack Adam_Page 19:08:33 matatk: what I was on queue for… I want to build on existing tech… but what we didn't find is in one HTTP request, to have a way to get that list 19:08:50 matatk: it's knowing that this is the definitive list that is very useful 19:09:01 matatk: we couldn't just do that with link elements 19:09:11 annevk: XML sitemaps is kind of what you're after 19:10:06 zcorpan: with the solution you proposed you still need the web developer to define the destination? eg we could give guidance to provide links to all pages 19:10:17 zcorpan: don't affect rendering because they are not visible 19:10:23 matatk: wouldn't that be a bit bloaty? 19:10:40 annevk: probably not, HTML is least significant part of page load in most cases 19:11:45 matatk: two things we were looking at… a special well known URI is that you can provide the list… that has the drawback that the extra bit is not in the spec… the second drawback is that well known URIs that relate to an origin, you might have sites with subsites where the scope may be tricky 19:11:52 matatk: we also got feedback about link@@@ 19:12:04 matatk: these allow you to give relationships between pages 19:12:18 matatk: it's like as if you put the link elements on each page… but you can just refer to a single document 19:12:22 s/link@@@/linksets 19:13:13 matatk: both approaches are in the explainer, we wondered which one is better and think the second probably is 19:13:34 matatk: there is also the approach of putting all the links on all pages 19:13:43 matatk: challenge probably is encouraging people to do it 19:14:00 q+ janina 19:14:03 ack matatk 19:14:05 chrishtr has joined #apa 19:14:13 q+ 19:14:15 annevk: I would start out with using the link attr, and then if we want to make it easier you can talk to the web manifest people 19:14:26 q+ 19:14:43 matatk: the advantage of how we were proposing to interpret link sets was to make it easier to deal with subsits 19:15:14 annevk: feel like UI you want is the things relevant to that document… can't really convey UI that make sense across documents 19:15:30 matatk: understand where you are coming from, from user perspective, they visit a site and want to know it for that site 19:16:02 annevk: trying to convey that info beforehand user would need to go to sitemap and explore how it is built 19:16:17 q? 19:16:21 matatk: we can ask the COGA TF 19:16:25 ack jyasskin 19:16:27 q- 19:16:30 ack janina 19:16:58 q+ 19:17:07 q+ to ask about highlighting the relevant bit on the page (semantically) 19:17:19 annevk: we have link rel accessibility 19:17:26 ack zcorpan 19:17:45 RDF+json (similar to linksets) seems like a good match for the semantics and extensibility but asking authors to generate/maintain a second sitemap seems problematic. Shoving the metadata into the sitemap seems to break the "single use" doctrine because it's main focus is SEO and not helping users find resources. 19:17:50 zcorpan: I think sitemaps are actually used by sites 19:18:19 zcorpan: don't know if websites typically link to sitemaps from markup or if it is a well known location 19:19:24 matatk: if we do something some way and it only uses standard, we can make it more efficient 19:19:33 q? 19:19:39 ack hdv 19:19:51 scribe+ 19:20:06 hdv: One of the goals of EU regs is for sites to include an accessibility statement 19:20:22 ... Helps people know where to go for the info or to file the complaint. 19:20:27 ... This is a good use case 19:20:35 q+ 19:20:50 ack me 19:20:50 matatk, you wanted to ask about highlighting the relevant bit on the page (semantically) 19:20:51 matatk: one of our TF participant did say to include a11y statements 19:21:05 matatk: so far everything we talked about we can actually do 19:21:48 matatk: if I've gone to the login page and I want to highlight that page, some of our users would need that type of direction, would we need an attribute, that we can prototype with `data-*`, is that feasible to prototype? 19:22:03 janina: so highlight the login portion of page and grey out everything else 19:22:35 Adam_Page: so more than a deeplink you highlight the part of the page? 19:22:44 annevk: what if you have single long document? 19:22:56 q+ 19:22:56 annevk: would you set it dynamically? 19:23:08 Chrome's text fragment linking seems like the right path forward. I'd push back against "supressing" a portion of the UI 19:23:18 matatk: destination would take avalue 19:23:18 q? 19:23:22 ack nathan 19:24:00 nathan: I understand the use case of an extention as how people interact with it, eg voiceover rotor, would be cool if you could navigate that in the AT you're already using 19:24:21 Fazio has joined #apa 19:24:22 matatk: love the idea, a lot of people with cognitive barriers don't use an AT, so can't be the only way 19:24:22 ack zcorpan 19:24:25 Lookup doorway effect and how it effects short term memory 19:24:29 q+ 19:24:34 zcorpan: for highlighting the destination… do you envision the website providing that? 19:24:46 matatk: website would provide the landing ozne? 19:24:52 s/ozne?/zone 19:24:53 fserb has joined #apa 19:25:01 zcorpan: could the website also be responsible for the highlight thing 19:25:04 vmpstr has joined #apa 19:25:23 zcorpan: if so we could have link targets, and use the target pseudo class in CSS, incl graying out everything else 19:25:37 The doorway effect is a phenomenon that occurs when people forget information after passing through a doorway or when switching between contexts, such as opening a new tab on a computer. The effect is caused by the brain's tendency to discard information when it encounters a change in context, and is thought to be a subconscious 19:25:42 q? 19:25:50 zcorpan: we started with looking at well known links, but with fragments, you're absolutely right we can do that 19:25:52 ack Fazio 19:25:58 Zakim, close the queue 19:25:58 ok, fserb, the speaker queue is closed 19:25:58 Fazio: important because of the doorway effect 19:26:04 Fazio: when you forget what you've just odne 19:26:15 q? 19:26:19 Fazio: also happens when you go from one web page to another or between screens, see also the link I poseted 19:26:23 s/poseted/posted 19:26:43 matatk: thanks everyone, this is super helpful. How do we keep talking to you? 19:27:07 annevk: variety of ways, always good to start with an issue, generally html repo or if it is very generic our meta repo 19:27:18 annevk: then we have a pointer 19:27:27 annevk: we also have a weekly call that you are welcome to join 19:28:00 annevk: if there are many issues we can also do a dedicated people. 19:28:10 CharlesL has left #apa 19:28:26 annevk: we can also join your meeting provided timing works out 19:28:48 annevk: can be a bit trickier to get timing to work out for all of the WHATWG folks 19:29:20 annevk: we also have a matrix instance where you can ask questions and have a mostly asynchronous convo, sometimes synchronous 19:29:23 q? 19:29:53 RRSAgent, make minutes 19:29:55 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-apa-minutes.html Roy 19:41:31 nigel has joined #apa 20:22:42 nigel has joined #apa 20:22:53 Francis_Storr has joined #apa 20:39:13 nigel has joined #apa 20:42:56 past has left #apa 20:48:21 nigel has joined #apa 20:55:39 jamesn has joined #apa 21:00:30 Adam_Page has joined #apa 21:01:55 spectranaut_ has joined #apa 21:04:22 nigel has joined #apa 21:12:17 kirkwood has joined #APA 21:20:21 janina1 has joined #apa 21:20:37 nigel has joined #apa 21:22:14 fserb has joined #apa 21:23:40 nigel has joined #apa 21:24:06 nigel has joined #apa 21:24:27 nigel has joined #apa 21:29:34 Zakim has left #apa 22:11:29 Adam_Page has joined #apa 22:47:54 Francis_Storr has joined #apa 22:54:45 kirkwood has joined #APA 23:00:51 fserb has joined #apa 23:09:34 Adam_Page has joined #apa 23:12:18 Francis_Storr has joined #apa 23:16:57 nigel has joined #apa 23:33:29 fserb has joined #apa 23:39:47 nigel has joined #apa 23:40:01 nigel has joined #apa 23:40:46 fserb has joined #apa 23:52:14 Francis_Storr has joined #apa