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15:01:49 <tpac-breakout-bot> RRSAgent, do not leave
15:01:50 <tpac-breakout-bot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:01:51 <tpac-breakout-bot> Meeting: Social Web and Fediverse Year in Review
15:01:51 <tpac-breakout-bot> Chair: Dmitri Zagidulin
15:01:51 <tpac-breakout-bot> Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/tpac2024-breakouts/issues/87
15:01:51 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #social-web-review
15:01:52 <tpac-breakout-bot> Zakim, clear agenda
15:01:52 <Zakim> agenda cleared
15:01:52 <tpac-breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Pick a scribe
15:01:53 <Zakim> agendum 1 added
15:01:53 <tpac-breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Reminders: code of conduct, health policies, recorded session policy
15:01:53 <Zakim> agendum 2 added
15:01:53 <tpac-breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Goal of this session
15:01:54 <Zakim> agendum 3 added
15:01:54 <tpac-breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Discussion
15:01:54 <Zakim> agendum 4 added
15:01:54 <tpac-breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Next steps / where discussion continues
15:01:55 <Zakim> agendum 5 added
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23:03:30 <koalie> present+ Coralie
23:03:37 <koalie> Zakim, agenda?
23:03:37 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
23:03:38 <Zakim> 1. Pick a scribe [from tpac-breakout-bot]
23:03:38 <Zakim> 2. Reminders: code of conduct, health policies, recorded session policy [from tpac-breakout-bot]
23:03:38 <Zakim> 3. Goal of this session [from tpac-breakout-bot]
23:03:39 <Zakim> 4. Discussion [from tpac-breakout-bot]
23:03:39 <Zakim> 5. Next steps / where discussion continues [from tpac-breakout-bot]
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23:03:59 <wseltzer> present+
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23:04:06 <wseltzer> scribenick: wseltzer
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23:04:18 <AramZS> present+
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23:04:24 <dmitriz> present+
23:04:26 <koalie> Zakim, drop item 1
23:04:26 <Zakim> agendum 1, Pick a scribe, dropped
23:04:34 <wseltzer> [introductions]
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23:06:46 <cpn> present+ Chris_Needham
23:07:25 <koalie> Zakim, who's on the call?
23:07:25 <Zakim> Present: Coralie, wseltzer, AramZS, dmitriz, Chris_Needham
23:07:59 <koalie> present+ Alan_Buxey, Lisa_Dussault
23:08:00 <bobwyman> present+
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23:08:19 <koalie> present+ Johannes_Ernst
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23:09:00 <koalie> present+ Ryan_Barrett
23:09:15 <koalie> present+ Sam_Goto
23:09:41 <snarfed> oooold school "fedsocweb" names
23:10:00 <koalie> present+ Tantek_Çelik
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23:10:30 <bumblefudge> present+
23:10:43 <koalie> present+ Evan_Prodromou
23:10:44 <bumblefudge> feel free to introduce yourself in irc if you are shy
23:10:48 <tantek> tantek has joined #social-web-review
23:10:52 <bumblefudge> or raise your hand in zoom if you are not shy
23:10:56 <tantek> present+
23:11:01 <koalie> present+ Rigo_Wenning
23:11:11 <koalie> present- Tantek_Çelik
23:11:19 <koalie> present+ Aaron_Parecki
23:12:07 <aaronpk> present+
23:12:15 <tantek> aaronpk is also an editor of several Social Web WG specs (Webmention, Micropub, IndieAuth, WebSub) and adjacent specs (Microsub etc.)
23:12:24 <wseltzer> dmitriz: SocialWebCG year in review
23:12:25 <tantek> q?
23:12:47 <wseltzer> ... Exec summary: we've done a lot, have a lot left to do
23:13:11 <bumblefudge> the social web is the shrinking subset of the web generated by hoomans 😬
23:13:14 <tantek> +1000 dmitriz The Web IS the Social Web
23:13:20 <wseltzer> ... The web is the social web
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23:13:40 <wseltzer> ... the fediverse is a corner of the social web using interoperable protocols and data models.
23:14:15 <bumblefudge> social and/or media 😎
23:14:40 <wseltzer> ... open ecosystems, lots of interesting technical problems
23:14:57 <wseltzer> ... ActivityPub is one of those protocols. Standardized by W3C in 2019
23:15:31 <wseltzer> ... protocol for distributing a series of events, featuring push and pull
23:15:57 <snarfed> 2M MAU?!
23:16:32 <wseltzer> ... about 30,000 serviers, 20M registered users, 2M MAU
23:16:49 <wseltzer> ... implementations includ partial support from Meta's Threads
23:17:15 <snarfed> 1M MAU afaik. https://fediverse.observer/stats , https://fedidb.org/
23:17:24 <wseltzer> ... SocialWeb CG as steward
23:17:48 <wseltzer> ... continuing momentum, focused on task forces (pain points)
23:18:19 <wseltzer> ... before the CG spun up, most of the focus was on experimentation elsewhere
23:18:55 <wseltzer> ... so issues were piling up on GitHub. Kudos to Evan for triaging those issues
23:19:09 <wseltzer> ... via weekly calls
23:19:50 <wseltzer> ... accumulating errata, clarification to devs, primer
23:20:11 <wseltzer> ... coordination with other communities
23:20:28 <wseltzer> ... FEP (fediverse enhancement proposals)
23:20:50 <wseltzer> ... shout out to Aaron for OAuth coordination
23:20:56 <bumblefudge> dynamic client registration rfc wen
23:21:09 <wseltzer> dmitriz: Main focus of the CG has been TFs
23:21:27 <wseltzer> ... completed: ActivityPub and HTTP Signatures, thanks to Ryan and a and others
23:21:42 <wseltzer> ... Webfinger TF published a report
23:22:08 <wseltzer> ... pain point for devs, how do we make authenticated API calls? HTTP signatures
23:22:15 <tantek> q?
23:22:33 <wseltzer> ... first implementations targeted a particular draft and got stuck
23:22:56 <wseltzer> ... now HTTP signatues is an RFC
23:23:07 <snarfed> good ol' cavage-12
23:23:14 <wseltzer> ... report lays the groundwork for upgrading the community
23:23:20 <wseltzer> ... Now have 7 active TFs
23:23:59 <wseltzer> ... including forums and threaded discussions TF
23:24:20 <wseltzer> ... data portability TF, since common user pain point is migration
23:24:48 <wseltzer> ... e2e encryption
23:25:23 <wseltzer> ... HTML discovery
23:25:58 <wseltzer> ... Moderation TF
23:26:58 <wseltzer> ... Website TF
23:27:56 <wseltzer> dmitriz: Fediverse Enhancement Proposals community has really influenced and enhanced our work
23:28:05 <wseltzer> ... microspecs, non-consensus
23:28:54 <wseltzer> ... lots of good implementation and experimentation
23:29:08 <wseltzer> dmitriz: Next steps
23:29:46 <wseltzer> ... governance and incubation process in CG; continuing conversation about chartering WG
23:30:08 <wseltzer> ... continue TF work and coordinaton with others inside and outside W3C
23:30:14 <tantek> +1 dmitriz all the next steps mentioned. awesome summary
23:30:28 <tantek> q?
23:30:30 <wseltzer> ... Share your questions and your highlights
23:30:39 <dmitriz> q?
23:30:53 <snarfed> props to dmitriz for tirelessly herding all of us cats for so long!
23:30:55 <snarfed> (and others!)
23:31:04 <wseltzer> ... Special shout-out to Johannes for fediforum
23:31:16 <tantek> q?
23:31:31 <tantek> ack j12t
23:31:36 <tantek> q+ aaronpk
23:32:06 <wseltzer> Johannes_Ernst: With Fediforum, want to call attention to things happening in experimentionat
23:32:19 <wseltzer> ... e.g someone demonstrating playing chess over activityPub
23:32:36 <wseltzer> ... with test hat, we saw 94 implementations of the spec
23:33:03 <bumblefudge> q+ to mention candidate ref impls and evolving concept of profiles and test suites
23:33:10 <wseltzer> ... we need to work on developer experience
23:33:33 <wseltzer> ... need to get more of the implementers in this room
23:34:10 <wseltzer> dmitriz: one of the common pain points of devs: this spec alone doesn't let me code up a social network
23:34:20 <tantek> q?
23:34:20 <wseltzer> ... we're daling with an interlocking ecosystem of specs
23:34:47 <wseltzer> aaronpk: re interactiong with other communities and groups
23:35:03 <wseltzer> ... I've been involved with FedCM discussions
23:35:17 <wseltzer> ... think there's a huge opportunity to solve lots of the challenges with federated login
23:35:33 <wseltzer> ... esp where there are no prior relationships among the parties
23:35:42 <wseltzer> ... we need to find people willing to experiment
23:36:06 <wseltzer> ... Sam and I both have test implementations on our websites
23:36:09 <dmitriz> I wonder if we could do like a FedCM + Fediverse hackathon?
23:36:29 <wseltzer> ... they help show the browser is in a good spot to smooth some of the interactions
23:36:58 <wseltzer> dmitriz: to the browser makers, so many of our next steps depend on key management
23:37:11 <wseltzer> ... we need your help
23:37:34 <wseltzer> aaronpk: the feature is in the browser now, we need people to build with it.
23:37:37 <dmitriz> q?
23:37:42 <wseltzer> ack aaronpk
23:38:00 <dmitriz> q+ evan
23:38:04 <dmitriz> q+
23:38:11 <koalie> ack bumblefudge
23:38:11 <Zakim> bumblefudge, you wanted to mention candidate ref impls and evolving concept of profiles and test suites
23:38:29 <wseltzer> bumblefudge: things I'm happy about compared with a year ago: we're collectively getting better about thinking about the problems at multiple levels
23:38:50 <wseltzer> ... we have TFs coordinating with one another, across layers, complementary
23:38:57 <aaronpk> for the notes, the particular feature I am talking about is the IdP registration feature of FedCM: https://github.com/w3c-fedid/idp-registration
23:38:59 <wseltzer> ... Fedify just hit v1, onepagepub
23:39:31 <aaronpk> with current implementations in webmention.io, my website, sam's website, and lastlogin.net
23:39:52 <koalie> [FYI: https://w3c.social/@timbl ]
23:39:55 <wseltzer> ... I'm seeing FEPs written by lots of people borrowing ideas from others, bluesky, Leaf,
23:40:05 <wseltzer> ... their work might help us with byoIDP
23:40:36 <bumblefudge> q-
23:40:42 <bumblefudge> ack evan
23:40:56 <wseltzer> evanP: I wrote the first book about ActivityPub, out this week
23:41:08 <AramZS> I was very impressed by your work aaronpk - I am very interested in that concept. Great demo earlier this week
23:41:10 <wseltzer> ... Started a non-profit, Social Web Foundation
23:41:22 <AramZS> What was the "leaf"(sp?) thing mentioned?
23:42:08 <aaronpk> thanks AramZS
23:45:26 <snarfed> afaik most of it is dual licensed MIT/Apache
23:47:44 <tantek> q?
23:47:45 <tantek> q+
23:47:48 <tantek> ack dmitriz
23:49:14 <wseltzer> ack t
23:49:38 <wseltzer> tantek: one of the things I've learned about the way distributed search has evolved
23:50:01 <wseltzer> ... diff communities have very different social norms about permissions and opting in
23:50:02 <wseltzer> ... some important human-centric lessons
23:50:34 <wseltzer> ... more we can learn to do better
23:50:52 <wseltzer> ... be a vehicle for championing those values of W3C
23:50:54 <AramZS> +1 to that tantek
23:51:01 <bumblefudge> https://erinkissane.com/fediverse-governance-drop
23:51:08 <wseltzer> dmitriz: thanks, I'll post a link to the slides
23:51:09 <alanbuxey> thanks all!
23:51:10 <dmitriz> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1QSeOmrpazT7k5uDatWXKErqqfCK0-jLYIWD7M6ogBjg
23:51:15 <bumblefudge> ^ to tantek's point this year in review banger should probably get minuted
23:51:22 <wseltzer> rrsagent, draft minutes
23:51:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/25-social-web-review-minutes.html wseltzer
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23:52:21 <AramZS> That doc is locked down dmitriz