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14:56:48 <tpac-breakout-bot> Meeting: Web-based Digital Twins for Smart Cities
14:56:48 <tpac-breakout-bot> Chair: Kazuyuki Ashimura, Michael Koster
14:56:48 <tpac-breakout-bot> Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/tpac2024-breakouts/issues/62
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14:56:49 <tpac-breakout-bot> Zakim, clear agenda
14:56:49 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:56:49 <tpac-breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Pick a scribe
14:56:50 <Zakim> agendum 1 added
14:56:50 <tpac-breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Reminders: code of conduct, health policies, recorded session policy
14:56:50 <Zakim> agendum 2 added
14:56:50 <tpac-breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Goal of this session
14:56:51 <Zakim> agendum 3 added
14:56:51 <tpac-breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Discussion
14:56:51 <Zakim> agendum 4 added
14:56:51 <tpac-breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Next steps / where discussion continues
14:56:52 <Zakim> agendum 5 added
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23:02:06 <McCool> kaz: thank you for coming
23:02:14 <McCool> ... team contact for smart cities ig
23:02:16 <shiestyle> present+
23:02:34 <McCool> kaz: Michael Koster is chair of that IG
23:02:46 <McCool> ... would like people here to self-introduce
23:03:03 <McCool> koster: chair of smart city IG, also co-chair of WoT
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23:03:17 <McCool> masaki: IEC
23:03:30 <McCool> atkinson: SDW IG co-chair, OGC
23:03:44 <McCool> kasuya: from DADC
23:04:06 <McCool> ege: WoT TD TF lead
23:04:19 <McCool> satakagi: ...
23:04:48 <McCool> hirakawa: roles in ITC, vmedia chair
23:05:00 <McCool> matsuda: ECHONET
23:05:12 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura
23:05:23 <McCool> mizushima: WoT Use Case TF
23:05:32 <Rob-OGC> present+
23:05:51 <McCool> endo: NHK
23:06:31 <McCool> takamami: ?
23:06:48 <McCool> shiohama: media gu, publishing BG
23:06:58 <McCool> wilson: Google
23:07:10 <shiestyle> s/takamami:/takami: KADOKAWA/
23:07:31 <mjwilson> present+
23:07:35 <McCool> present+
23:07:38 <ohmata> present+ Hisayuki_Ohmata
23:07:42 <McCool> present+ Michael_McCool
23:07:48 <denkeni> present+
23:07:49 <hiroki_endo> present+ Hiroki_Endo
23:07:55 <ktoumura> present+ Kunihiko_Toumura
23:07:57 <McCool> topic: history of smart cities activities in W3C
23:08:07 <shiestyle> present+ Shinya_Takami
23:08:08 <Rob-OGC> present+ Rob_Atkinson
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23:08:59 <McCool> kaz: had workshop three years ago, then two followup discussions at TPAC
23:09:08 <McCool> ... then updated a proposed IG charter
23:09:15 <McCool> ... then IG has launched
23:09:29 <McCool> ... now are discussing existing standards
23:09:36 <McCool> ... and cross-cutting issues
23:10:07 <McCool> ... and also input from SDOs on various topics, smart building standards
23:10:36 <McCool> ... SDOs including ECHONET, ISO, ITU-T, IEC, OGC (geolocation)
23:10:51 <McCool> ... W3C has been looking at related standard, e.g. WoT
23:11:01 <McCool> ... but have identified some missing points
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23:11:12 <McCool> ... guidelines for engineering, data governance, etc.
23:11:25 <McCool> kaz: identified digital twin as a key concept
23:12:07 <McCool> ... would like to consider using WoT, DID, and other W3C standards, such as VC, for Smart Cities applications
23:12:26 <McCool> ... also would be good to have standardized vocabulary, e.g. based on RDF
23:12:41 <McCool> ... use the W3C as a hub for collaboration
23:12:51 <McCool> kaz: expected deliverables
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23:13:12 <McCool> ... survey of existing technologies, document on best practices, identify gaps
23:13:17 <Tomo> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
23:13:55 <McCool> ... also got input during review, such as working with US Ignite, ERIA, Digital City nation, etc. - basically regional organizations
23:14:14 <McCool> ... and we should also consider potential harms to security, privacy, and user agency
23:14:55 <McCool> kaz: would like to first ask for comments, then as SDOs for updates
23:15:46 <McCool> ken: from NTT.  understand you are focused on digital twin, but would like to understand some more specific use case cases
23:16:01 <McCool> kaz: digital twin is a tools
23:16:10 <Rob-OGC> Hi - I provided some updates from OGC here https://github.com/w3c/smartcities-workshop/issues/27
23:16:19 <McCool> ... but can narrow to smart buildings, smart home, smart village
23:16:21 <McCool> q+
23:16:28 <Rob-OGC> q+
23:18:37 <McCool> mm: lots of use cases already in WoT, but we should consider more, for example smart grid, accessibility, distributed grid, etc.
23:19:09 <McCool> mm: but part of the deliverables should probably be a discussion of what use cases are most important
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23:19:14 <kaz> q?
23:19:20 <kaz> ack mc
23:19:26 <McCool> koster: thing we need to understand what problems are are solving, user stories
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23:20:10 <McCool> ... can also includes transportation
23:20:23 <McCool> satakagi: disaster prevention and mitigation
23:21:00 <McCool> ra: in the chat where I put a link to a number of activities in the OGC, and will also be discussing a number of things in the SDW tomorrow
23:21:23 <McCool> ... two things of interest: development of ontologies for GML;
23:21:23 <McCool> q+
23:21:40 <McCool> ra: no official status until a working group adopt them
23:21:55 <McCool> ra: second thing is mapping JSON schemas to ontologies
23:22:07 <McCool> ... opportunities around JSON-LD enablement
23:23:07 <kaz> mm: some clarification on why we added "digital twins"
23:23:20 <kaz> ... would narrow the scope
23:23:33 <kaz> ... need to handle spatial model
23:23:47 <kaz> ... also need to handle transportation within the city
23:23:59 <kaz> ... all possible smart cities varies
23:24:17 <kaz> ... so added "digital twins" for the target of the Smart Cities IG
23:24:26 <kaz> ... on the other hand, WoT works on IoT in general
23:24:48 <kaz> ... another thing is digitalization of smart cities
23:25:05 <kaz> q?
23:25:09 <Rob-OGC> thats the driver for the CityGML -> OWL to support planning rule assessment..
23:25:10 <kaz> ack ro
23:25:12 <mjk> q?
23:25:16 <kaz> ack mc
23:25:29 <McCool> kaz: anthing else to add from SDW viewpoint?
23:25:42 <McCool> joshua: add note in chat
23:25:58 <McCool> ... these days not so much getting a digital twin as having too many of them
23:26:29 <McCool> ... so there is also the aspect of how to "use" the model, it should look and behave the same, but can also be used for "what if" questions
23:26:46 <McCool> ... but most do have an essential spatial aspect
23:27:07 <McCool> ... including distance in space and time
23:27:13 <kaz> [[
23:27:16 <kaz> There are indeed any number of use cases distinguished by function, domain, scale, etc. The present challenge is more to enable digital twin solutions by uncovering the commonalities and interchanges that enable possibly myriad DT’s to be sustained.
23:27:17 <kaz> ]]
23:27:34 <McCool> ... these are tied to aspects of urban life
23:28:03 <McCool> ... we also tend to think of them as twins of the physical world, but there is also the element of people - there is a "social" part
23:28:55 <McCool> ... started working on digital twins 10 years ago; thought smart city was a temporary term - all cities would be smart
23:29:13 <McCool> ... it would just be standard practice
23:29:22 <McCool> ... it would just be the city
23:29:41 <McCool> kaz: any updates from ECHONET
23:29:49 <McCool> ... interested for example about smart grid?
23:30:07 <McCool> matsuda: yes, ECHONET has been looking at demand-response
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23:30:28 <McCool> ... but mostly focused on communication protocols, but not on energy management in particular
23:30:55 <McCool> mm: any aspect of what you're working on that relates to digital twins
23:31:03 <McCool> matsuda: not directly
23:31:23 <McCool> ... but can deal with properties of a thing
23:31:26 <McCool> q+
23:31:46 <kaz> mm: another implication of "digital twins" is "digital shadow"
23:31:50 <kaz> ... querying offline
23:31:56 <kaz> ... for maintenance purposes
23:32:12 <kaz> ... may or may not have capability of identifying the devices are
23:32:18 <kaz> ... might be just a cache
23:32:36 <McCool> mm: we have also argued about whether digital shadows are "digital twins" or just caches
23:32:57 <McCool> hirakawa: updates on ontologies
23:33:00 <McCool> ... IE
23:33:19 <McCool> ... IEC has established an advisory commitee on digital content management
23:33:33 <McCool> ... based on CDD structure
23:33:44 <McCool> ... ACBCD
23:33:53 <McCool> ... first meeting Oct 3
23:34:29 <McCool> ... not directly relevant to digital twin, but relates to background infrastucture, but to content standard
23:35:01 <McCool> ... hoping that in future, will reach ISO standard
23:35:33 <McCool> ... also on IEC, made desicion in june not to establish new cmtes for smart cities
23:35:50 <McCool> ... instead have a joint ad-hoc group with SMD
23:36:15 <kaz> (joint work with JTC1 on Smart Cities)
23:36:34 <McCool> ... new subcommitee SMD-TMB joint for smart home
23:36:58 <McCool> ... including transition plan from existing ISO activities
23:37:12 <McCool> ... for CDD infrastructure
23:37:50 <McCool> umejima: in charge of dev plan for smart energy
23:38:01 <McCool> ... will publish and ontology 63017
23:38:23 <McCool> ... can make a good tie between W3C and smart energy
23:38:40 <McCool> ... regarding digital twins, are part of energy plan
23:38:51 <McCool> ... will be generating a data model and interface design
23:39:25 <McCool> ... definition of digital twin in quite big; after collecting use cases should identify data models
23:40:11 <mjk> q?
23:40:15 <McCool> kaz: formal definition of digital twins from ITU
23:40:30 <McCool> umejima: yes, but there is a gap between definition
23:40:43 <McCool> kasuya: working on smart buildings in japan
23:41:03 <McCool> ... have developed a working group to study data models to build digital twins for buildings
23:41:16 <McCool> ... to support BIM, building information models
23:41:25 <satakagi> q+
23:41:28 <McCool> ... working closely with W3C
23:41:38 <McCool> ... specific use cases such as demand response
23:41:42 <McCool> q-
23:42:14 <McCool> satakagi: machine readability models needed
23:42:39 <McCool> ... but can extract information from big data using analytics
23:42:40 <hiroki_endo> q+ to talk about expectations from Media Content Metadata Japanese CG
23:43:08 <kaz> ack sa
23:43:10 <kaz> ack hi
23:43:10 <Zakim> hiroki_endo, you wanted to talk about expectations from Media Content Metadata Japanese CG
23:43:16 <McCool> endo: from media content metadata group
23:43:31 <kaz> present+ Jay_Kishigami, Michiko_Kuriyama
23:43:34 <McCool> ... seek to improve interoperability of data across industries
23:43:40 <McCool> ... for metadata in particular
23:43:55 <kaz> q?
23:44:14 <McCool> ... studying use cases to understand metadata requirements
23:45:08 <McCool> koster: as some final comments, seems there is a lot to contribute, I think we should start a cadence of regular meetings, and see if we can better define and narrow the scope of what we have to deliver
23:45:15 <McCool> ... let's set up some follow up
23:45:33 <McCool> kaz: IG will organize a monthly call, and will seek to gather use cases and requirements
23:45:51 <McCool> ... please continue to collaborate with us
23:50:02 <shiestyle> rrsagent, draft minutes
23:50:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/25-smartcities-minutes.html shiestyle