14:56:42 RRSAgent has joined #smartcities 14:56:46 logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/09/25-smartcities-irc 14:56:46 RRSAgent, do not leave 14:56:47 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:56:48 Meeting: Web-based Digital Twins for Smart Cities 14:56:48 Chair: Kazuyuki Ashimura, Michael Koster 14:56:48 Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/tpac2024-breakouts/issues/62 14:56:48 Zakim has joined #smartcities 14:56:49 Zakim, clear agenda 14:56:49 agenda cleared 14:56:49 Zakim, agenda+ Pick a scribe 14:56:50 agendum 1 added 14:56:50 Zakim, agenda+ Reminders: code of conduct, health policies, recorded session policy 14:56:50 agendum 2 added 14:56:50 Zakim, agenda+ Goal of this session 14:56:51 agendum 3 added 14:56:51 Zakim, agenda+ Discussion 14:56:51 agendum 4 added 14:56:51 Zakim, agenda+ Next steps / where discussion continues 14:56:52 agendum 5 added 14:56:52 tpac-breakout-bot has left #smartcities 15:27:32 shiestyle has joined #smartcities 17:57:15 kaz has joined #smartcities 18:13:19 kaz has joined #smartcities 20:07:39 shiestyle has joined #smartcities 20:18:31 kaz has joined #smartcities 21:46:37 kaz has joined #smartcities 21:48:54 shiestyle has joined #smartcities 22:26:20 shiestyle has joined #smartcities 22:42:20 shiestyle has joined #smartcities 22:45:15 denkeni has joined #smartcities 22:54:03 ktoumura has joined #smartcities 22:59:50 shiestyle has joined #smartcities 22:59:52 McCool has joined #smartcities 22:59:53 mjwilson has joined #smartcities 23:00:23 sebastian has joined #smartcities 23:00:40 shiestyle has joined #smartcities 23:00:48 mjk has joined #smartcities 23:00:52 kasuya has joined #smartcities 23:00:56 kaz has joined #smartcities 23:01:21 ohmata has joined #smartcities 23:02:04 Rob-OGC has joined #smartcities 23:02:06 kaz: thank you for coming 23:02:14 ... team contact for smart cities ig 23:02:16 present+ 23:02:34 kaz: Michael Koster is chair of that IG 23:02:46 ... would like people here to self-introduce 23:03:03 koster: chair of smart city IG, also co-chair of WoT 23:03:06 hiroki_endo has joined #smartcities 23:03:17 masaki: IEC 23:03:30 atkinson: SDW IG co-chair, OGC 23:03:44 kasuya: from DADC 23:04:06 ege: WoT TD TF lead 23:04:19 satakagi: ... 23:04:48 hirakawa: roles in ITC, vmedia chair 23:05:00 matsuda: ECHONET 23:05:12 present+ Kaz_Ashimura 23:05:23 mizushima: WoT Use Case TF 23:05:32 present+ 23:05:51 endo: NHK 23:06:31 takamami: ? 23:06:48 shiohama: media gu, publishing BG 23:06:58 wilson: Google 23:07:10 s/takamami:/takami: KADOKAWA/ 23:07:31 present+ 23:07:35 present+ 23:07:38 present+ Hisayuki_Ohmata 23:07:42 present+ Michael_McCool 23:07:48 present+ 23:07:49 present+ Hiroki_Endo 23:07:55 present+ Kunihiko_Toumura 23:07:57 topic: history of smart cities activities in W3C 23:08:07 present+ Shinya_Takami 23:08:08 present+ Rob_Atkinson 23:08:08 EgeKorka_ has joined #smartcities 23:08:59 kaz: had workshop three years ago, then two followup discussions at TPAC 23:09:08 ... then updated a proposed IG charter 23:09:15 ... then IG has launched 23:09:29 ... now are discussing existing standards 23:09:36 ... and cross-cutting issues 23:10:07 ... and also input from SDOs on various topics, smart building standards 23:10:36 ... SDOs including ECHONET, ISO, ITU-T, IEC, OGC (geolocation) 23:10:51 ... W3C has been looking at related standard, e.g. WoT 23:11:01 ... but have identified some missing points 23:11:02 matsuda has joined #smartcities 23:11:12 ... guidelines for engineering, data governance, etc. 23:11:25 kaz: identified digital twin as a key concept 23:12:07 ... would like to consider using WoT, DID, and other W3C standards, such as VC, for Smart Cities applications 23:12:26 ... also would be good to have standardized vocabulary, e.g. based on RDF 23:12:41 ... use the W3C as a hub for collaboration 23:12:51 kaz: expected deliverables 23:12:52 Tomo has joined #smartcities 23:13:12 ... survey of existing technologies, document on best practices, identify gaps 23:13:17 present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima 23:13:55 ... also got input during review, such as working with US Ignite, ERIA, Digital City nation, etc. - basically regional organizations 23:14:14 ... and we should also consider potential harms to security, privacy, and user agency 23:14:55 kaz: would like to first ask for comments, then as SDOs for updates 23:15:46 ken: from NTT. understand you are focused on digital twin, but would like to understand some more specific use case cases 23:16:01 kaz: digital twin is a tools 23:16:10 Hi - I provided some updates from OGC here https://github.com/w3c/smartcities-workshop/issues/27 23:16:19 ... but can narrow to smart buildings, smart home, smart village 23:16:21 q+ 23:16:28 q+ 23:18:37 mm: lots of use cases already in WoT, but we should consider more, for example smart grid, accessibility, distributed grid, etc. 23:19:09 mm: but part of the deliverables should probably be a discussion of what use cases are most important 23:19:10 shiestyle has joined #smartcities 23:19:14 q? 23:19:20 ack mc 23:19:26 koster: thing we need to understand what problems are are solving, user stories 23:19:42 shiestyle has joined #smartcities 23:20:10 ... can also includes transportation 23:20:23 satakagi: disaster prevention and mitigation 23:21:00 ra: in the chat where I put a link to a number of activities in the OGC, and will also be discussing a number of things in the SDW tomorrow 23:21:23 ... two things of interest: development of ontologies for GML; 23:21:23 q+ 23:21:40 ra: no official status until a working group adopt them 23:21:55 ra: second thing is mapping JSON schemas to ontologies 23:22:07 ... opportunities around JSON-LD enablement 23:23:07 mm: some clarification on why we added "digital twins" 23:23:20 ... would narrow the scope 23:23:33 ... need to handle spatial model 23:23:47 ... also need to handle transportation within the city 23:23:59 ... all possible smart cities varies 23:24:17 ... so added "digital twins" for the target of the Smart Cities IG 23:24:26 ... on the other hand, WoT works on IoT in general 23:24:48 ... another thing is digitalization of smart cities 23:25:05 q? 23:25:09 thats the driver for the CityGML -> OWL to support planning rule assessment.. 23:25:10 ack ro 23:25:12 q? 23:25:16 ack mc 23:25:29 kaz: anthing else to add from SDW viewpoint? 23:25:42 joshua: add note in chat 23:25:58 ... these days not so much getting a digital twin as having too many of them 23:26:29 ... so there is also the aspect of how to "use" the model, it should look and behave the same, but can also be used for "what if" questions 23:26:46 ... but most do have an essential spatial aspect 23:27:07 ... including distance in space and time 23:27:13 [[ 23:27:16 There are indeed any number of use cases distinguished by function, domain, scale, etc. The present challenge is more to enable digital twin solutions by uncovering the commonalities and interchanges that enable possibly myriad DT’s to be sustained. 23:27:17 ]] 23:27:34 ... these are tied to aspects of urban life 23:28:03 ... we also tend to think of them as twins of the physical world, but there is also the element of people - there is a "social" part 23:28:55 ... started working on digital twins 10 years ago; thought smart city was a temporary term - all cities would be smart 23:29:13 ... it would just be standard practice 23:29:22 ... it would just be the city 23:29:41 kaz: any updates from ECHONET 23:29:49 ... interested for example about smart grid? 23:30:07 matsuda: yes, ECHONET has been looking at demand-response 23:30:28 satakagi has joined #smartcities 23:30:28 ... but mostly focused on communication protocols, but not on energy management in particular 23:30:55 mm: any aspect of what you're working on that relates to digital twins 23:31:03 matsuda: not directly 23:31:23 ... but can deal with properties of a thing 23:31:26 q+ 23:31:46 mm: another implication of "digital twins" is "digital shadow" 23:31:50 ... querying offline 23:31:56 ... for maintenance purposes 23:32:12 ... may or may not have capability of identifying the devices are 23:32:18 ... might be just a cache 23:32:36 mm: we have also argued about whether digital shadows are "digital twins" or just caches 23:32:57 hirakawa: updates on ontologies 23:33:00 ... IE 23:33:19 ... IEC has established an advisory commitee on digital content management 23:33:33 ... based on CDD structure 23:33:44 ... ACBCD 23:33:53 ... first meeting Oct 3 23:34:29 ... not directly relevant to digital twin, but relates to background infrastucture, but to content standard 23:35:01 ... hoping that in future, will reach ISO standard 23:35:33 ... also on IEC, made desicion in june not to establish new cmtes for smart cities 23:35:50 ... instead have a joint ad-hoc group with SMD 23:36:15 (joint work with JTC1 on Smart Cities) 23:36:34 ... new subcommitee SMD-TMB joint for smart home 23:36:58 ... including transition plan from existing ISO activities 23:37:12 ... for CDD infrastructure 23:37:50 umejima: in charge of dev plan for smart energy 23:38:01 ... will publish and ontology 63017 23:38:23 ... can make a good tie between W3C and smart energy 23:38:40 ... regarding digital twins, are part of energy plan 23:38:51 ... will be generating a data model and interface design 23:39:25 ... definition of digital twin in quite big; after collecting use cases should identify data models 23:40:11 q? 23:40:15 kaz: formal definition of digital twins from ITU 23:40:30 umejima: yes, but there is a gap between definition 23:40:43 kasuya: working on smart buildings in japan 23:41:03 ... have developed a working group to study data models to build digital twins for buildings 23:41:16 ... to support BIM, building information models 23:41:25 q+ 23:41:28 ... working closely with W3C 23:41:38 ... specific use cases such as demand response 23:41:42 q- 23:42:14 satakagi: machine readability models needed 23:42:39 ... but can extract information from big data using analytics 23:42:40 q+ to talk about expectations from Media Content Metadata Japanese CG 23:43:08 ack sa 23:43:10 ack hi 23:43:10 hiroki_endo, you wanted to talk about expectations from Media Content Metadata Japanese CG 23:43:16 endo: from media content metadata group 23:43:31 present+ Jay_Kishigami, Michiko_Kuriyama 23:43:34 ... seek to improve interoperability of data across industries 23:43:40 ... for metadata in particular 23:43:55 q? 23:44:14 ... studying use cases to understand metadata requirements 23:45:08 koster: as some final comments, seems there is a lot to contribute, I think we should start a cadence of regular meetings, and see if we can better define and narrow the scope of what we have to deliver 23:45:15 ... let's set up some follow up 23:45:33 kaz: IG will organize a monthly call, and will seek to gather use cases and requirements 23:45:51 ... please continue to collaborate with us 23:50:02 rrsagent, draft minutes 23:50:03 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/25-smartcities-minutes.html shiestyle