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14:56:08 <tpac-breakout-bot> Meeting: Next actions for digital manga and comics
14:56:08 <tpac-breakout-bot> Chair: Shinya Takami, Hadrien Gardeur
14:56:08 <tpac-breakout-bot> Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/tpac2024-breakouts/issues/58
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14:56:09 <tpac-breakout-bot> Zakim, clear agenda
14:56:09 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:56:09 <tpac-breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Pick a scribe
14:56:11 <Zakim> agendum 1 added
14:56:11 <tpac-breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Reminders: code of conduct, health policies, recorded session policy
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14:56:11 <tpac-breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Goal of this session
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14:56:12 <tpac-breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Discussion
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14:56:12 <tpac-breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Next steps / where discussion continues
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20:11:40 <shiestyle> zakim, start the meeting
20:11:40 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
20:11:41 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), shiestyle
20:11:55 <shiestyle> Meeting: Next actions for digital manga and comics
20:12:14 <shiestyle> Chair: Shinya Takami
20:12:20 <shiestyle> Chair: Hadrien Gardeur
20:12:41 <shiestyle> Agenda: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1vep11WWx_gkRgZVaQmd6Rg_xa6mQiqoi/pub
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20:13:10 <shiestyle> rrsagent, draft minutes
20:13:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/25-manga-next-minutes.html shiestyle
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20:14:05 <shawn7> present+ ShawnLawtonHenry(part)
20:14:10 <shiestyle> Chair: Shinya Takami, Hadrien Gardeur
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20:18:49 <wendyreid> shiestyle: This session is about next actions for digital manga and comics
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20:19:01 <wendyreid> ... I am Shinya Takami from Kadokawa, and joined by Hadrien Gardeur from EDR Lab
20:19:10 <wendyreid> Hadrien: I've been interested in this topic for a long time
20:19:20 <wendyreid> ... done my best to gather information from European publishers
20:19:36 <wendyreid> ... hopefully this session will ba good mix of feedback from Japan, Europe, and more
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20:19:53 <wendyreid> shiestyle: We're going to stsrt with an overview of the situation in Japan, Europe, and NA
20:20:00 <wendyreid> ... then next steps for manga and comics
20:20:04 <wendyreid> ... four subtopics
20:20:15 <wendyreid> ... and then we will finish with any other business
20:20:17 <wendyreid> ... let's start
20:20:33 <wendyreid> [Shinya shares slides]
20:20:46 <wendyreid> s/stsrt/start/
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20:21:51 <wendyreid> shiestyle: The first presentation is from me, about EPUB in Japan
20:21:59 <wendyreid> ... [slide 1] ebook market in Japan
20:22:12 <wendyreid> ... 90% of the ebook market share is manga and comics
20:22:32 <wendyreid> ... $4bn USD in comics, 0.5b USD for everything else
20:22:45 <wendyreid> ... about 10% of the comics sold use the scrolled format
20:22:53 <wendyreid> ... it's not a small market for the Japanese industry
20:23:07 <wendyreid> ... the EPUB3 format is used mostly in Japan
20:23:17 <wendyreid> ... SVG wrapped image is used, and other formats
20:23:33 <wendyreid> ... many reading systems use only the images extracted from files
20:23:41 <wendyreid> ... and do not render the XHTML extracted from files
20:24:00 <wendyreid> ... SVG wrapped images to ensure images are scaled to the side of the screen
20:24:20 <wendyreid> s/side/size/
20:24:37 <wendyreid> shiestyle: [example on screen] we use SVG <image> to declare the image
20:24:54 <wendyreid> ... in current web browsers, our XHTML is not rendered properly
20:25:00 <wendyreid> ... example on the screen is from Chrome
20:25:15 <wendyreid> ... differences in expected behaviour from browsers vs what we need
20:25:43 <wendyreid> ... the current web technology and reading systems diverge
20:26:19 <wendyreid> ... Japanese style only works on reading systems in Japan, XHTML and SVG are not necessary for reading systems, we only need the images
20:26:36 <wendyreid> ... we can reduce the size of the files by eliminating the wrappers
20:26:49 <wendyreid> ... if we don't use XHTML we lose accessibility, and image map
20:26:59 <wendyreid> ... we use image maps in FXL for manga content in japan
20:27:18 <wendyreid> ... If we don't use XHTML/SVG, we'll lose the image map features
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20:27:38 <duga> q+
20:27:39 <wendyreid> ... that is the situation in Japan right now
20:27:45 <wendyreid> ack duga
20:27:50 <davidhall> q+
20:28:00 <wendyreid> duga: Question, you mentioned that markup is doubling the size of the files?
20:28:14 <wendyreid> Hadrien: Doublingthe number of resources, not file size
20:28:23 <wendyreid> shiestyle: Doubling the number of files in the EPUB
20:28:27 <wendyreid> q+
20:28:31 <kevin> q+
20:28:34 <wendyreid> ack davidhall
20:28:44 <wendyreid> davidhall: We seem to be using a few terms interchangeably
20:28:51 <wendyreid> ... digital manga, comics, webtooms
20:29:01 <wendyreid> ... I have a different idea in my head of that those are
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20:29:14 <wendyreid> ... for me manga/comics are the same, paginated FXL content
20:29:24 <wendyreid> ... webtoons is variable-height and scrolled
20:29:29 <Hadrien> q+
20:29:33 <wendyreid> ... we may use the same solutions but there are differences
20:29:40 <shiestyle> q?
20:29:50 <shiestyle> ack wendyreid
20:29:52 <wendyreid> shiestyle: We can discusss webtoons later
20:30:13 <LaurentLM> q?
20:30:30 <wendyreid> wendyreid: What is the issue with the number of resources listed in the OPF?
20:30:40 <wendyreid> shiestyle: Difference of cost to produce the EPUB files
20:30:48 <wendyreid> ... there's complexity
20:30:52 <shiestyle> ack kevin
20:30:59 <wendyreid> kevin: Thanks, interested in the problem in slide 5
20:31:03 <wendyreid> ... trying to work out what the problem is
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20:31:35 <CharlesL> q+
20:31:35 <wendyreid> ... from an accessibility perspective, more flexibility in layout options and settings would be more important than the image appearance in the viewport size
20:31:38 <wendyreid> ... want to understand the nature of the problem presented
20:31:43 <shiestyle> ?
20:31:46 <duga> q+
20:31:50 <shiestyle> ack Hadrien
20:32:01 <wendyreid> Hadrien: I can try answering
20:32:17 <wendyreid> ... one of the reasons bitmaps were wrapped in SVG was to achieve the accepted behaviour
20:32:26 <wendyreid> ... it was at one point required to get the dimensions contained
20:32:34 <LaurentLM> q+
20:32:43 <wendyreid> ... it's not necessarily needed, it's a practice that has been followed, even though the historical reasons are not there
20:32:53 <wendyreid> ... to reply to David, it is confusing the different formats
20:33:05 <wendyreid> ... some is cultural, different terms and cultural expression in the media
20:33:13 <wendyreid> ... Korean, Japanese traditions
20:33:23 <wendyreid> ... it can be confusing, we are just trying to point out the variations
20:33:28 <wendyreid> ... and some have variations in design
20:33:45 <shiestyle> ack CharlesL
20:33:49 <wendyreid> ... for example the requirement for bandes desinees are different, like resolution
20:34:14 <wendyreid> CharlesL: For SVG wrapped bitmap images, is there any thought from publishers to use SVG directly, to benefit low-vision users in zoom?
20:34:22 <wendyreid> shiestyle: No, we use it to fit to the screen
20:34:38 <wendyreid> Hadrien: I'll mention this relating to Europe, there are some SVG use cases for other reasons
20:34:46 <shiestyle> ack duga
20:34:46 <hiroshige> q+ does XHTML play key role here?
20:34:55 <wendyreid> duga: Wanted to come back to slide 5
20:35:00 <wendyreid> ... not sure why this is a problem
20:35:11 <wendyreid> ... rendering in the browser is different from reading system, yes it is
20:35:14 <hiroshige> q+
20:35:18 <wendyreid> ... the reading system has EPUB to tell it what to do
20:35:27 <wendyreid> ... the browser won't render EPUB as it is to be rendered
20:35:30 <wendyreid> ... why is this a problem?
20:35:40 <wendyreid> shiestyle: Many reading systems use browsers as their engines
20:35:51 <wendyreid> ... we need to customize the reading sytems to make this work
20:36:01 <wendyreid> duga: This is what HTML gives you, the viewport
20:36:16 <wendyreid> ... yes, for instance, Play Books uses the webview to display the content
20:36:29 <wendyreid> ... but we display it as a formatted EPUB, using web engines
20:36:34 <wendyreid> ... regardless of browser
20:36:41 <wendyreid> shiestyle: Depends on the reading system
20:36:45 <shiestyle> ?
20:36:49 <wendyreid> duga: There is a spec to follow
20:36:59 <shiestyle> q?
20:37:06 <LaurentLM> q-
20:37:06 <shiestyle> ack LaurentLM
20:37:07 <wendyreid> Hadrien: Let's move to Daihei's presentation
20:37:40 <wendyreid> hiroshige: How does the XHTML part play a role here?
20:37:54 <wendyreid> ... do we need to keep it?
20:38:01 <wendyreid> shiestyle: It's used by the EPUB format
20:38:52 <wendyreid> [switching slides]
20:39:50 <shiestyle> ack hiroshige
20:40:00 <wendyreid> Daihei: I'm Daihei Shiohama of MediaDO international and a co-chair of the publishing business group
20:40:18 <wendyreid> ... MediaDO is part of the Japanese market, and my part is based in the US digital publishing market
20:40:28 <wendyreid> ... I'm going to talk to you about the US manga and comics market
20:40:39 <wendyreid> ... manga dominates the comic and graphic novels market
20:40:59 <wendyreid> ... in 2023, manga was about 49% of units
20:41:12 <wendyreid> ... [stats on slides]
20:41:23 <wendyreid> ... the US market is dominated by print book sales
20:41:57 <wendyreid> ... the US manga market is projected to outpace the global manga market in growth
20:42:10 <wendyreid> ... global market is valued at 13.7 billion USD
20:42:31 <wendyreid> ... Japan, the US, and other regions will continue to grow
20:42:52 <wendyreid> ... digital books market are not accurately reported right now
20:43:13 <wendyreid> ... estimates are made, ebook sales are estimated at 10% of publisher sales
20:43:28 <wendyreid> ... several publishers launched proprietary apps in 2022-2024
20:43:42 <wendyreid> ... and several marketplace apps
20:43:56 <wendyreid> ... manga specialized app launches in the US
20:44:06 <wendyreid> ... ??? [which publishers?]
20:44:23 <wendyreid> ... webtoons market is projected to be worth 7.63 billion USD in 2024
20:44:34 <wendyreid> ... and reach 13.04 billion in 2032
20:44:39 <wendyreid> ... webtoons is a huge market too
20:44:57 <wendyreid> ... the top two webcomic platforms are owned by large asian companies, Naver and Kakao
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20:45:09 <wendyreid> ... different business models
20:45:26 <wendyreid> ... print books are distributed and sold through different channels
20:45:36 <wendyreid> ... stores, direct, physical and online stores, crowdfunding
20:46:17 <wendyreid> ... manga is sold in Barnes and Noble, and ???? stores from Japan in the US
20:46:29 <wendyreid> ... online retailers, subscription and a la carte sales
20:46:29 <garykac> ????? = Kinokuniya
20:46:45 <wendyreid> s/????/Kinokuniya/
20:47:15 <wendyreid> Daihei: Webcomics are primarily distributed through speciality apps like Webtoon
20:47:34 <wendyreid> ... digital books are in EPUB 3 or PDF
20:47:55 <wendyreid> ... different formats in different streams
20:48:44 <wendyreid> Hadrien: Go quickly, to give a few numbers, in France comics and manga takes up about 16% of the market share
20:48:50 <wendyreid> ... driven by large growth in manga
20:48:57 <wendyreid> ... drop in 2023, but growth overall
20:49:08 <wendyreid> ... comics have been driving growth in the book market in France
20:49:13 <wendyreid> ... mainly print
20:49:21 <wendyreid> ... digital about 506%
20:49:31 <wendyreid> s/506%/5-6%/
20:49:51 <wendyreid> Hadrien: Webtoons is growing, driven from apps but small overall
20:50:05 <wendyreid> ... production, for large publishers production is in-house and automated
20:50:20 <wendyreid> ... different from what you see in EPUB production for reflowable content like novels
20:50:27 <wendyreid> ... it's completely automated with bitmaps
20:50:39 <wendyreid> ... big part is following the output from the automation
20:50:43 <wendyreid> ... smaller publishers are different
20:50:56 <wendyreid> ... unlike japan, there is no standard style
20:51:09 <wendyreid> ... some publishers do bitmaps in XHTML, others use SVG
20:51:23 <wendyreid> ... other examples of the visuals in bitmap, but the text is part of the SVG
20:51:37 <wendyreid> ... the text was selectable and available to screenreaders or TTS
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20:51:50 <Daihei> present+
20:51:54 <wendyreid> ... even seen bitmaps in spine with fallbacks to XHTML
20:52:19 <wendyreid> ... it's uncommon, but specialized platforms don't care about XHTML/SVG as long as they can get to the bitmap content
20:52:27 <wendyreid> ... the requirements are driven by large retailers
20:52:43 <wendyreid> ... many publishers mention Apple, their requirements for resolution drive their output
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20:52:58 <wendyreid> ... happy to have maximum resolution improved, and influenced by that
20:53:12 <wendyreid> ... something that comes up a lot is the European Accessibility Act
20:53:23 <wendyreid> ... we've discussed this in the publishing maintenance working group
20:53:37 <wendyreid> ... they are concerned with the lack of information about FXL accessibility
20:53:44 <shiestyle> q?
20:54:04 <wendyreid> Hadrien: I'll take us to the next topic
20:54:18 <wendyreid> ... it's been 10 years since EPUB for comics became common
20:54:24 <wendyreid> ... we now see what is working, what is not
20:54:35 <wendyreid> ... in the context of a future revision of EPUB, we have an opportunity
20:54:48 <wendyreid> ... concept of spread, spread placement
20:54:56 <wendyreid> ... placement is considered useful to publishers
20:54:58 <wendyreid> ... happy to have it
20:55:10 <wendyreid> ... it's fairly well implemented in reading systems
20:55:17 <wendyreid> ... at the spine level
20:55:25 <wendyreid> ... for each resource in the book, you can align it
20:55:33 <wendyreid> ... what we see is 2 patterns
20:55:42 <wendyreid> ... production workflows with 0 use of this property
20:55:54 <wendyreid> ... or another workflow where every resource has it
20:55:56 <wendyreid> ... I've seen many
20:56:07 <wendyreid> ... and we don't see cases where it's only partially used
20:56:16 <wendyreid> ... page-spead-centre is a bit strange, but useful
20:56:27 <wendyreid> ... it's useful as its aliased to spread:none
20:56:32 <wendyreid> ... good to avoid having a spread
20:56:43 <wendyreid> ... or for content creators to put entire spread in a single image
20:56:48 <wendyreid> ... it's used for covers
20:56:59 <wendyreid> ... it makes properties like rendition:spread redundant
20:57:10 <wendyreid> ... there's a disconnect between what the spec says and usage
20:57:33 <wendyreid> ... EPUB creators should use the page-spread properties when they want to ensure a spread
20:57:39 <wendyreid> ... we don't see this in practice
20:57:51 <wendyreid> ... the spec is advocating to use the properties sporadically
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20:57:55 <Rain> present+
20:58:04 <wendyreid> ... they are used all the time, or none of the time, because of workflows
20:58:18 <wendyreid> ... when it's never used, authors expect the behaviours we see in apps like Apple Books
20:58:33 <wendyreid> ... there's an expectation of a behaviour that is not clear in the spec
20:58:37 <wendyreid> .... people seem happy and it's well-implemented
20:58:42 <wendyreid> ... it's useful
20:59:01 <wendyreid> ... there's another property, rendition-spread, for the entire publicatrion
20:59:20 <wendyreid> ... have a value at the publication level that is overridden at the spine level
20:59:47 <wendyreid> ... publishers use a template that uses "both" or "none", they hint at spread usage but it's not useful
20:59:58 <wendyreid> ... another miss is that the values are unclear
21:00:17 <wendyreid> ... auto is useless, landscape is weird
21:00:25 <wendyreid> ... gives content creators the illusion of content
21:00:31 <wendyreid> s/content/control/
21:00:43 <wendyreid> Hadrien: It's always the user that decides what is best for them
21:00:55 <wendyreid> ... users view one page at a time
21:00:56 <wendyreid> ... scrolled
21:01:06 <wendyreid> ... there is a need for something different than what is needed in the spec
21:01:24 <wendyreid> ... I think what is needed is region-based navigation
21:01:40 <wendyreid> ... in comics, there are use cases where the reading order crosses the fold
21:01:47 <wendyreid> ... or usage where you need to see the entire spread
21:01:56 <wendyreid> ... there are elements that cross the fold
21:02:06 <wendyreid> ... [example shown]
21:02:17 <shiestyle> q?
21:02:21 <wendyreid> ... what is needed is the ability to display a spread when it is essential to the reading experience
21:02:26 <wendyreid> ... important to accessibility
21:02:35 <wendyreid> ... and let reading systems do smarter auto modes
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21:03:03 <wendyreid> ... there are readers that scroll, but when you encounter a specific spread, it changes the interaction to side-to-side scroll
21:03:06 <duga> q+
21:03:11 <wendyreid> ... the expression of information we do not currently have
21:03:25 <wendyreid> ... spread is hit and miss right now
21:03:40 <wendyreid> duga: You talked about the illusion of control
21:03:49 <shiestyle> ack duga
21:04:05 <wendyreid> ... I believe PLay Books used to start with publisher said, but it was not beneficial to the user
21:04:13 <wendyreid> ... so we deferred to the usrr
21:04:26 <wendyreid> ... and in your example, that's a case where they needed to go together
21:04:46 <wendyreid> ... how do we make something that works here, publishers can tell us when it is meaningful
21:04:55 <wendyreid> ... how do we get the information when we really do need it
21:05:05 <wendyreid> Hadrien: I don't think we need publication-level spread settings
21:05:10 <wendyreid> ... this is where abuse most often happens
21:05:17 <wendyreid> ... only allow at the spine
21:05:23 <wendyreid> ... and we should change the values
21:05:31 <wendyreid> ... none is handled by centre for example
21:05:36 <Rain> q+
21:05:42 <wendyreid> ... we need more a boolean, "this spread matters"
21:05:51 <wendyreid> ... if we had that, we could have modes that respect that
21:06:02 <wendyreid> ... but still work with user preference
21:06:13 <wendyreid> ... different information that is simplified to drive better defaults
21:06:24 <wendyreid> ... like if you detect it's used everywhere
21:06:35 <wendyreid> ... if we head off the abuse opportunities
21:06:35 <shiestyle> ack Rain
21:06:47 <wendyreid> Rain: I'm curious about anchoring on the spread as a publisher input
21:07:03 <wendyreid> ... I'm not sure how the spread is useful, if someone is zoomed in, the spread could be problematic
21:07:15 <wendyreid> ... I'm wondering if anchoring on the spread, you anchor on the cells
21:07:20 <wendyreid> ... "here's the cell of meaning"
21:07:29 <wendyreid> ... spread is outdated
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21:07:45 <wendyreid> Hadrien: I fully agree, and I can touch on it later
21:07:46 <wendyreid> q+
21:07:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/25-manga-next-minutes.html fantasai
21:08:00 <wendyreid> q-
21:08:01 <wendyreid> shiestyle: Let's move to bitmap and accessibility
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21:08:23 <hober> present+
21:08:50 <wendyreid> Hadrien: What we see in practice is that HTML/SVG as containers is not often used
21:08:54 <wendyreid> ... we've seen image maps
21:09:02 <wendyreid> ... examples where text is in the SVG
21:09:10 <wendyreid> ... vast majority is a bitmap
21:09:17 <wendyreid> ... and container is there because it must be
21:09:36 <wendyreid> ... for specilzed reading systems that just rasterize everything
21:09:50 <wendyreid> ... SVG/XHTML was done for good reason
21:10:00 <wendyreid> ... but it's not moving the needle for accessibility
21:10:20 <wendyreid> ... one reason, unlike the rest of the EPUB ecosystem, there are a lot of specialized comics readers
21:10:28 <wendyreid> ... and they just display comics
21:10:45 <wendyreid> ... I think we cannot talk about that without talking about accessibility
21:11:08 <wendyreid> ... what we see right now in terms of EPUB capabilities, all we can do is create a script per page
21:11:15 <wendyreid> ... few EPUB out there that do it
21:11:30 <wendyreid> ... the content creator creates a script, they provide that as a description of the image
21:11:37 <wendyreid> ... and even that is inconsistent
21:11:48 <wendyreid> ... what do we need to create accessible comics?
21:11:58 <wendyreid> ... we need reading order at the fragment level
21:12:06 <wendyreid> ... fragment of an image, of multiple images
21:12:14 <wendyreid> ... useful to identify a unit of content
21:12:17 <wendyreid> ... like a panel
21:12:18 <garykac> present+
21:12:19 <garykac> q+
21:12:27 <wendyreid> ... another need is to have transcription of each fragment
21:12:33 <shiestyle> q+
21:12:40 <wendyreid> ... in comics there are a lot of captions, speech, sound effects
21:12:46 <wendyreid> ... it is often handwritten
21:12:58 <wendyreid> ... having it as real text is needed
21:13:02 <wendyreid> ... image description also needed at the fragment level
21:13:20 <wendyreid> ... there is a lot of content within a page
21:13:30 <wendyreid> ... we need to identify different areas
21:13:43 <wendyreid> ... if there is a panel, and the speech bubble, you need to know who is speaking and what
21:13:49 <wendyreid> ... there is a lot of visual information in comics
21:14:07 <wendyreid> ... how they are speaking, lots of contextual information communicated through visual means
21:14:22 <wendyreid> ... how to make all that conform to accessibility act requirements
21:14:48 <wendyreid> ... if we had a method, we could do more to serve readers, resize text, change fonts, speak aloud
21:14:56 <wendyreid> ... [gives example]
21:15:40 <wendyreid> ... [example of serialization of this]
21:15:52 <shiestyle> q?
21:16:07 <wendyreid> ... we identify a region, role, character, description, children
21:16:15 <wendyreid> ... there are other units of content
21:16:20 <wendyreid> ... speech versus shouting
21:16:24 <wendyreid> ... just an example
21:16:40 <ivan> q+
21:16:59 <wendyreid> garykac: So I had a question about ordering and serialization
21:17:02 <shiestyle> ack garykac
21:17:17 <wendyreid> ... sound effects may not be in order, but things like furigana that need to be in order
21:17:27 <wendyreid> ... in the example, how would I select a section or region of text
21:17:38 <wendyreid> ... I want to select at the character level
21:17:46 <florian_webirc> q+
21:17:48 <wendyreid> ... doesn't seem useful for making the text accessible
21:17:58 <wendyreid> Hadrien: I think you could define sub-regions
21:18:06 <wendyreid> ... even in the context of adapted content
21:18:10 <shiestyle> zakim, close the queue
21:18:10 <Zakim> ok, shiestyle, the speaker queue is closed
21:18:11 <wendyreid> ... no one is doing this
21:18:21 <wendyreid> ... at the granular level, it's complex
21:18:27 <florian_webirc> q?
21:19:04 <wendyreid> shiestyle: For accessibility, as a publisher, it's not easy to prepare the pop-up text
21:19:13 <wendyreid> ... the description for each image is hard to prepare
21:19:25 <ivan> ack shiestyle
21:19:25 <wendyreid> ... XHTML or SVG for EPUB is not valid in Japan for now
21:19:30 <shiestyle> ack me
21:19:48 <wendyreid> Hadrien: Publishers are concerned about the cost, especially in markets where comics are the fraction
21:19:49 <shiestyle> ack ivan
21:20:09 <wendyreid> ivan: Very practical question, we had the working group call
21:20:13 <wendyreid> ... we discussed areas to explore
21:20:35 <wendyreid> ... do you think what you described today, or part, is on the maturity level to be considered for EPUB 3 or needs more?
21:20:39 <wendyreid> ... where are we with this?
21:20:55 <wendyreid> Hadrien: I think the spread stuff is ready to discuss, pragmatic revision
21:21:04 <wendyreid> ... if we're talking about accessible comics, it's very immature
21:21:10 <wendyreid> ... at best, this is a CG project
21:21:16 <wendyreid> ... way too early for the WG
21:22:19 <wendyreid> Kamata: As a publisher, there was a significant cost to producing a frame-by-frame content view
21:22:19 <shiestyle> ack florian_webirc
21:22:50 <wendyreid> florian_webirc: To get the full benefits of what garykac described, it seems to be is to realize is to not enrich the meta information
21:22:55 <wendyreid> ... but to have the text on the page
21:23:08 <wendyreid> ... the cost of producing such a thing, and the workflow is considerable
21:23:17 <wendyreid> ... vs text as markup on the page
21:23:29 <wendyreid> ... there is considerations of changes to the workflow
21:23:44 <duga> q+
21:23:45 <wendyreid> garykac: My assumption is its not possible due to how the content is produced, fonts, workflows, etc
21:23:57 <wendyreid> ... my assumption was it was not possible, but maybe?
21:24:21 <wendyreid> florian_webirc: I'm uncertain we can realize the benefits of what you describe without doing the work to put the text on the page
21:24:53 <wendyreid> duga: I saw a Japanese publisher show me a folio of the letterers and the fonts they developed for each one
21:25:08 <wendyreid> ... perfectly reproduced the style of each letterer with a font
21:25:45 <wendyreid> rrsagent, please draft minutes
21:25:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/25-manga-next-minutes.html wendyreid
21:29:15 <shiestyle> zakim, end the meeting
21:29:15 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Hadrien, davidhall, CharlesL, ShawnLawtonHenry(part), shiestyle, MasakazuKitahara, wendyreid, toshiakikoike, ikkwong, duga, ivan, jkamata,
21:29:18 <Zakim> ... Daihei, Rain, hober, garykac
21:29:18 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
21:29:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/25-manga-next-minutes.html Zakim
21:29:24 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, shiestyle; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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21:31:15 <fantasai> \
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22:19:24 <shiestyle> Agenda slides on W3C: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2024Sep/att-0010/W3C_Breakout_Session_at_TPAC_2024__Next_actions_for_digital_manga_and_comics_-_2024-09-25.pptx
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