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14:50:56 <tpac-breakout-bot> Meeting: HTML Model Element Discussion
14:50:56 <tpac-breakout-bot> Chair: Ada Rose Cannon, Marcos Caceres, Brandel Zachernuk
14:50:56 <tpac-breakout-bot> Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/tpac2024-breakouts/issues/33
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14:50:57 <tpac-breakout-bot> Zakim, clear agenda
14:50:57 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:50:57 <tpac-breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Pick a scribe
14:50:59 <Zakim> agendum 1 added
14:51:00 <tpac-breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Reminders: code of conduct, health policies, recorded session policy
14:51:00 <Zakim> agendum 2 added
14:51:00 <tpac-breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Goal of this session
14:51:01 <Zakim> agendum 3 added
14:51:01 <tpac-breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Discussion
14:51:01 <Zakim> agendum 4 added
14:51:01 <tpac-breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Next steps / where discussion continues
14:51:02 <Zakim> agendum 5 added
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15:32:05 <ada> Hello!
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15:33:51 <zcorpan> present+
15:33:54 <lgombos8> present+ Laszlo Gombos
15:34:01 <ada> present+
15:34:20 <sabidussi_marco> present+
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15:34:27 <matatk> present+
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15:35:03 <atsushi> present+
15:35:16 <atsushi> rrsagent, make log public
15:35:19 <atsushi> scribe+
15:35:47 <atsushi> meeting: HTML Model Element Discussion
15:35:50 <atsushi> chair: Ada
15:38:07 <atsushi> topic: introduction to model element
15:38:21 <atsushi> bajones: presentation of 3D objectts
15:38:33 <atsushi> ... using WebGL or else
15:39:03 <atsushi> ... presenting immersive objects could have high bar, incl. JS scripts
15:39:22 <atsushi> ... model element concept is to support 3D object rendering natively
15:39:30 <alcooper> present+
15:39:43 <atsushi> ... without burdening site creaters on performance etc.
15:39:58 <atsushi> ... explainer is on immersive web CG site
15:41:04 <atsushi> ... 3D object on DOM plate on immersive context, cannot be presented from backside or else, since it is rendered as 2D plate
15:43:16 <atsushi> ... in addition to auto fitting to environment, turntable view and so on are enabled by model element with 3D context
15:45:54 <atsushi> ... on supported system, 3D objects could be extracted from 2D plate, and could be shown in environment
15:46:53 <atsushi> ... if a model has animation, it could be presented also
15:47:21 <atsushi> ... BBbox is accessible to author
15:47:56 <atsushi> ... for initial implementation of model element, asset will be shown in blackbox, but will be updated
15:49:27 <atsushi> ... easier to capture HTML presentation feature for 3D assets, and also offer interactions with e.g. hand input, also consideration to a11y or permissions
15:50:05 <atsushi> topic: whether model itself is media element?
15:50:20 <atsushi> ada: many properties on media element, like animation, exists
15:50:26 <atsushi> ... could have relationship with them
15:50:49 <atsushi> ... it doesn't have association with audio, but open for question
15:51:13 <atsushi> ... whether model element is with media element or its own
15:51:29 <atsushi> bajones: values to authors, with blackbox, like a11y or privacy
15:52:04 <atsushi> ... with media, many features could be imposed
15:52:31 <atsushi> ... for like video games, animations could be used over 3D asset via model eelement
15:52:44 <atsushi> ... whether model should be media like element or not
15:52:50 <zcorpan> q+
15:52:58 <atsushi> ack z
15:53:10 <alcooper> s/bajones/Brandel
15:53:20 <atsushi> zcorpan: page could manipulate model element or not?
15:53:46 <atsushi> Brandel: currently not, themself is atomic or could be used via DOM are unclear
15:54:21 <atsushi> ... need to see requests on model element for expanding features
15:54:49 <atsushi> ??: if model is media element, how it will look? concept of basic state, like network state
15:55:16 <tidoust> s/??:/Jean-Yves:/
15:55:30 <atsushi> ... if media is unique, need to define things. like video there is placeholder for state, incl. pause
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15:56:42 <atsushi> brandel: at this point, Apple is loading asset with static
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15:57:16 <atsushi> ... there are unique features, like shaders, exist, and needs consideration. also take time to load byte streams
15:57:33 <atsushi> ... no answer for now, on as image or video
15:57:47 <MikeW9> q+
15:57:58 <atsushi> ada: not necessary to have animation, and could be both image or video
15:58:13 <atsushi> ... people would want to seek if animation is included
15:59:52 <atsushi> Brandel: could have video like features, pause timed-text
16:00:42 <atsushi> ???: reasonalbe to have playback for animations, but not really clear
16:01:07 <zcorpan> s/???/Brandon Jones/
16:01:44 <atsushi> ... for media control or not, not clear but could be more like video frame
16:01:59 <ada> ack MikeW9
16:02:04 <ada> ack MikeW9
16:02:06 <ada> ack MikeW
16:02:28 <atsushi> Mike: wondering if model element could have these features
16:03:38 <atsushi> brandel: different from 2D frame
16:03:57 <atsushi> ... looking from different view points
16:05:09 <atsushi> marcos: text track of media element, more like timing thing
16:05:42 <ada> q+
16:05:45 <ada> ack ada
16:05:47 <atsushi> ... if we make as media element, we could gain from existing
16:06:02 <atsushi> ada: whether we need to add audio feature?
16:06:26 <atsushi> marcos: issue on audio, lots of complexity to sync and interaction
16:07:12 <zcorpan> q+
16:07:13 <atsushi> brandel: usd has audio inside, also feature to trigger scene
16:07:30 <atsushi> ... model element could concentrate on view
16:07:41 <atsushi> ... usd also include physics simulations, incl kinematics
16:07:59 <atsushi> ... these should be accessible from JS, but might be extension
16:08:33 <atsushi> marcos: CG/WG does not handle format itself
16:09:19 <atsushi> brandon: how these features could be excluded or not
16:09:34 <atsushi> ... like for glTF
16:09:56 <atsushi> ... what should be included in core spec, and also which extensions are associated for what aspect
16:10:17 <ada> ack zcorpan
16:11:17 <atsushi> zcorpan: could not have sync from multiple files like video and audio, so having in one fomat for all audio etc could be useful
16:11:17 <tidoust> q+
16:11:27 <ada> ack tidoust
16:11:48 <atsushi> francois: specifying usd properties in the Web or not?
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16:13:06 <atsushi> brandel: necessity to specify reasonable capability to be supported by model
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16:14:08 <tidoust> s/francois: specifying usd properties in the Web or not?/Where would be the group that specifies what USD for the web look like?/
16:14:14 <atsushi> ada: safe to say model like video, sometimes could have audio or sometimes not
16:14:44 <atsushi> zcorpan: media element could have infinite span
16:15:09 <tidoust> s/brandel: necessity/brandel: Ongoing discussions within the Apache Software Foundation with plan to create a group within the Alliance for Open USD afterwards. Necessity/
16:15:46 <zcorpan> s/span/duration/
16:17:05 <atsushi> zcorpan: API added to media element could be a question, although currently it is complex or buggy
16:17:07 <Brandel> s/Apache/Academy/
16:17:18 <Brandel> https://www.aswf.io
16:17:20 <atsushi> ... could vary with supported format by model
16:20:08 <lgombos> q+
16:20:17 <atsushi> ???: media has its specific requirement and presentation, like smooth display, and not sure whether it fits with model
16:20:44 <atsushi> marcos: depends on format, usd glTF or byte stream like
16:21:25 <bajones> q+
16:21:25 <atsushi> brandel: in 3D, poster like presentation in distance plate are used
16:22:04 <atsushi> ... smaller asset like jpeg snapshot could be presented as poster frame, like that
16:22:26 <atsushi> ... simple 2D element could not be the replacement ideally
16:23:15 <atsushi> ???: media element doing all, building up media display, and now moving to have web codecs
16:23:33 <atsushi> ... could build up player with multiple components currently
16:23:56 <atsushi> ... you could have components, download assets, display
16:24:09 <zcorpan> q+
16:24:16 <atsushi> ... model have similar concept to media, but whether it supports site developers
16:25:01 <atsushi> brandel: monolythic could be sufficient for model, first place
16:25:34 <atsushi> ... part of apple.com use 3D asset, with downloading and showing assets
16:26:38 <ada> ack lgombos
16:26:49 <atsushi> ???: implementation side, what model element could present is question
16:27:14 <atsushi> lgombos: user agent could factor out some part of specs
16:28:08 <atsushi> zcorpan: could refactor media element building block and could bulid for model
16:28:37 <ada> ack bajones
16:29:29 <atsushi> brandel: discussion on what media element should be, more question of whether two could work
16:30:11 <atsushi> ... need to dive into media element, and capture some part for our use
16:30:34 <atsushi> ... evaluate whether existing element could fit within or not
16:31:48 <atsushi> ... give access to data stream could also be question, for protection like MSE
16:32:10 <atsushi> ... could have polifill with low level features to examine
16:33:28 <atsushi> zcorpan: for bulding blocks, important consideration on how web developer could customize feature, not to rebuild from scratch, for this kind of high level features
16:33:42 <ada> ack zcorpan
16:33:55 <atsushi> ... providing building blocks rather than high level feature, could be one option
16:34:02 <bajones> q+
16:34:09 <bajones> q-
16:34:43 <atsushi> marcos: will seek options and coordinate with forks incl HTML
16:34:57 <atsushi> rrsagent, publish minutes
16:34:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/25-iwcg-model-minutes.html atsushi
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