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14:53:15 <tpac-breakout-bot> Meeting: Cloud Edge Client Coordination
14:53:15 <tpac-breakout-bot> Chair: maxpassion, Michael McCool
14:53:15 <tpac-breakout-bot> Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/tpac2024-breakouts/issues/39
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14:53:16 <tpac-breakout-bot> Zakim, clear agenda
14:53:16 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:53:16 <tpac-breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Pick a scribe
14:53:18 <Zakim> agendum 1 added
14:53:18 <tpac-breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Reminders: code of conduct, health policies, recorded session policy
14:53:18 <Zakim> agendum 2 added
14:53:18 <tpac-breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Goal of this session
14:53:19 <Zakim> agendum 3 added
14:53:20 <tpac-breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Discussion
14:53:20 <Zakim> agendum 4 added
14:53:20 <tpac-breakout-bot> Zakim, agenda+ Next steps / where discussion continues
14:53:22 <Zakim> agendum 5 added
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21:41:10 <Max> ?
21:41:13 <Max> q?
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21:46:44 <jyasskin> present+
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21:48:17 <dezell> present+
21:48:20 <angel> present+
21:48:37 <angel> present+Qing An, Max Liu, Song Xu
21:48:49 <kenji_baheux> present+
21:50:26 <angel> scribe: angel
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21:50:38 <angel> Max: first part is the use case discussion
21:50:40 <zolkis> present+ Zoltan_Kis
21:50:48 <angel> ...will give a brief intro
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21:51:00 <angel> ...there was a related breakout session today
21:51:11 <angel> ...about generative AI and Web
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21:51:37 <xfq> present+
21:52:04 <annette_g> present+
21:52:04 <angel> McCool: this is more about requirments for AI models
21:52:51 <angel> Max: sometimes the latency can be sensetive
21:53:12 <angel> ...we wont discuss solutions in this session, more on the use cases
21:53:56 <angel> Song: about cloud game, I presented the game use cases on the web Network IG
21:54:22 <angel> ...why I bring this case here is that, we have some web-based cloud game now
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21:55:11 <angel> ... with the commercial round of the cloud game, with 2 million users
21:55:32 <angel> ...the biggest consuming part is the keyboard events
21:55:37 <angel> ...to be translated
21:55:57 <angel> ...from end to end time we can see the translation will be the major part of the how process
21:56:20 <angel> ...we still talk about the ideal mechanism for that
21:56:27 <angel> ...we came up with 2 solutions
21:56:40 <angel> ...since the Web based solution is on top of the TCP IP network
21:56:49 <angel> ...hard to get better perf on that
21:57:09 <angel> ...so we ask if we can have @@1 network, with higher priority
21:57:42 <angel> ...2 solutions, 1 is to have MOQ, to be standardized in 3GPP, which will change the low latency situation
21:58:06 <angel> ...that one is a long term evolution
21:59:01 <angel> ...the 2nd one is the Cloud Edge Client Coordination
21:59:18 <angel> ...we had another case for the Paris Olympic game
21:59:23 <angel> ...we set up @@2
22:00:41 <angel> [Song is showing a game case of Black Myth]
22:01:06 <angel> ...the web based rending effect is good in this game case
22:01:23 <angel> ... the end ot end latenty is acceptable
22:01:44 <angel> McCool: how far are the servers and client?
22:02:36 <angel> Song: the edge is delpyed in each city
22:02:53 <angel> ... at least in east part of China
22:03:12 <angel> [Song showing the architecture of the game]
22:03:24 <angel> ...within 100km
22:06:17 <angel> McCool: reason this gourp is called Cloud Edge Client Coordination
22:06:55 <angel> ...is that there is interaction between Cloud Edge and Client
22:07:17 <angel> ...local network edge computing can also be done
22:08:04 <angel> ...next use case, a home system for smart house
22:08:44 <angel> ...people can give command by voice
22:08:55 <angel> ...a home server can do AI
22:09:24 <angel> ...one thing I try is can we have a web paltfrom in distributed fashion to handle distributed wokers
22:09:46 <angel> ...not much standards around this
22:10:33 <angel> ...cool things can be done, like people recognization
22:10:50 <angel> ... this kind of thing can also be provided by 3th party
22:10:57 <angel> ...can be a new business model
22:11:31 <angel> ...or for security as well, as intruder detection
22:11:53 <angel> Max: for this use case, all the computing is happening on edge?
22:11:57 <angel> McCool: yes
22:12:14 <angel> Max: anything on the cloud to control it?
22:12:17 <angel> McCool: nop
22:12:29 <angel> ...I can run the network dowm
22:12:35 <angel> ...like a local network
22:12:41 <angel> s/dowm/down
22:14:26 <angel> @@3: in same domain, easy to solve the trust issue
22:14:46 <angel> ...media server is easy to discover
22:15:03 <angel> McCool: HP is local, which is nice
22:16:54 <angel> @@2: what is the split between the work
22:17:11 <angel> s/@@2/@@3
22:17:49 <angel> McCool: either breaking down the pieces or sandboxing
22:19:02 <angel> Max: we can discuss the details in the CG meeting
22:19:20 <angel> ...we have a document, a W3C group note for the use cases
22:19:30 <xfq> https://www.w3.org/TR/edge-cloud-reqs/
22:19:38 <angel> ...let's move to the demo part, provided by Alibaba Could
22:19:54 <angel> ...the demo is to do the website acceleration
22:20:09 <angel> [Max showing the demo]
22:22:06 <angel> McCool: purely functional, server-less
22:22:10 <angel> Max: yes
22:22:17 <angel> s/purely functional, server-less/purely functional, server-less?
22:22:33 <angel> Max: we have done the first 2 parts
22:23:02 <angel> ...the 3rd part is to discuss the gap and how we can prioritize the work
22:23:21 <angel> @@2: how does the server determin that there is an offload opportunity for edge?
22:23:32 <angel> Max: this is triggered by the user
22:24:17 <angel> ... it's called central cloud control
22:24:30 <kenji_baheux> q+
22:24:30 <angel> ...the central controls the cloud resources
22:24:52 <angel> McCool: this is a different model
22:25:26 <angel> ...the appraoch I take, is move the client app and @@4
22:25:56 <angel> ...how something is up and run is independent to the service
22:27:09 <angel> @@2: where W3C needs to be involved?
22:28:09 <zolkis> q+
22:28:34 <angel> McCool: web workers let you offload the work
22:28:45 <angel> ...what if the webwork can run different machines
22:29:31 <jyasskin> q+ jyasskin to ask about commonalities between the client-controlled and server-controlled edge models
22:30:32 <angel> Max: like what in the game use case, the cloud and edge can do the rending, the user side can receive the rended content
22:31:14 <angel> McCool: I might discover a computing resouce nearby when I try to run an demanding app
22:33:13 <angel> ...for game use case, maybe I can download the video and offload the other pieces
22:33:27 <angel> @@2: the big question is who has relationship with who
22:35:18 <angel> ...and which I do I trust and the business model for it
22:35:59 <angel> McCool: there are gaps, how to discover the service, how to trust them, how to do communicaiton, etc
22:36:16 <xfq> q?
22:36:27 <angel> ack ken
22:36:41 <angel> ack zol
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22:36:55 <kenji_baheux> q?
22:36:55 <angel> Zolkis: what is mission in the space
22:37:50 <angel> ...s/mission in the space/is missing in the space?
22:38:03 <angel> ...can we use the existing things like Web bluetooth?
22:38:23 <angel> ...we need to verify what we actually want to achieve
22:38:37 <angel> McCool: I think we are talking browser APIs here
22:38:48 <zolkis> q?
22:38:51 <angel> Max: the edge run time is related to winter CG
22:39:15 <angel> ...we need some cooperation with them
22:39:48 <angel> McCool: need to work on things like what kind of library is available
22:40:28 <angel> Max: 5 min left, we can do through the gaps and see if we have consensus for them
22:40:43 <angel> ...this can be the base to start the CG work
22:41:46 <angel> McCool: we need to identity which gap we need to focus on
22:41:59 <angel> Max: the plan is to launch the CG after the CG
22:42:08 <angel> ...and then start the incubation work in the CG
22:42:20 <angel> ...we will not go the gaps one by one
22:42:47 <angel> Jeffery: 2 different kinds of use cases, one is the servers know each other
22:43:15 <angel> ...how to combine them
22:43:23 <kenji_baheux> this reminds me of https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/03/chrome-experiment-turns-your-smartphone-into-web-based-game-controller/ but with less friction (iirc, you had to scan a qrcode or some other manual step to connect the mobile and desktop to the same user experience).
22:43:53 <Max> q?
22:44:20 <kenji_baheux> q+
22:44:27 <xfq> ack jyasskin
22:44:27 <Zakim> jyasskin, you wanted to ask about commonalities between the client-controlled and server-controlled edge models
22:44:34 <angel> McCool: we have multi-stakeholders in the CG, with different prospectives
22:45:26 <angel> ...e.g. China Mobile can run a service on their cloud tower, it can be chosen by the client
22:45:50 <angel> ...you dont have to tell the app what to do, it can scan for the resources available
22:46:08 <angel> ...dont need to tell the app how to do it
22:46:21 <zolkis> q?
22:46:40 <jyasskin> s/@@2/DanDruta/g
22:48:20 <kenji_baheux> q-
22:48:23 <angel> McCool: the CG will be launched soon, welcome to join
22:48:31 <angel> Max: thank you all for the discussion!
22:48:34 <angel> rrsagent, draft minutes
22:48:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/25-cloud-coordination-minutes.html angel
22:48:43 <angel> rrsagent, make log public
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