12:31:01 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #matf
12:31:05 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/09/18-matf-irc
12:31:05 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
12:31:06 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Joe_Humbert
12:31:32 <Joe_Humbert> Zakim, this is MATF 18 September 2024
12:31:32 <Zakim> got it, Joe_Humbert
12:31:49 <Joe_Humbert> Meeting: MATF 18 September 2024
12:31:58 <Joe_Humbert> present+
12:32:26 <Joe_Humbert> regrets+ Gleidson Ramos
12:33:42 <Joe_Humbert> agenda+ 2.5.4 - Motion Actuation
12:34:04 <Joe_Humbert> agenda+ Review 2nd round of voting on SCs that required little or no modification from WCAG2ICT
12:34:26 <Joe_Humbert> agenda+ 2.4.11 - Focus Not Obscured (Minimum)
12:35:12 <Joe_Humbert> zakim, agenda?
12:35:12 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
12:35:12 <Zakim> 1. 2.5.4 - Motion Actuation [from Joe_Humbert]
12:35:12 <Zakim> 2. Review 2nd round of voting on SCs that required little or no modification from WCAG2ICT [from Joe_Humbert]
12:35:12 <Zakim> 3. 2.4.11 - Focus Not Obscured (Minimum) [from Joe_Humbert]
12:57:50 <julianmka> julianmka has joined #MATF
13:00:00 <AlainVagner> AlainVagner has joined #matf
13:00:06 <AlainVagner> present+
13:00:36 <quintinb> quintinb has joined #MATF
13:00:41 <quintinb> present+
13:01:03 <github-bot> github-bot has joined #matf
13:01:05 <Illai> Illai has joined #matf
13:01:22 <Joe_Humbert> scribe: quintinb
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13:01:33 <Aashutosh> present+
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13:01:55 <Joe_Humbert> move to next agendum
13:01:55 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- 2.5.4 - Motion Actuation -- taken up [from Joe_Humbert]
13:02:00 <RacheleD> present+
13:02:06 <Detlev> Detlev has joined #matf
13:02:06 <julianmka> present+
13:02:09 <quintinb> Please ensure I properly represent you - if you want to correct me I welcome the feedback!
13:02:13 <Detlev> present+
13:02:15 <Illai> present +
13:03:05 <Mick> Mick has joined #MATF
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13:03:15 <Jamie> present+
13:03:52 <Mick> present+
13:04:48 <quintinb> Joe_Humbert We may need to add some sections - he's going through it and will share it out with us on slack and email (action items in progress)
13:06:03 <julianmka> q+
13:06:15 <Joe_Humbert> ack julianmka
13:06:35 <Joe_Humbert> https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/40
13:06:38 <quintinb> julianmka: This one is refreshingly straightforward as it seems to have been made with mobile in mind
13:06:41 <quintinb> +1
13:06:55 <Illai> +1
13:07:02 <Jamie> +1
13:08:04 <Joe_Humbert> +1
13:08:08 <julianmka> !+
13:08:13 <julianmka> 1+
13:08:17 <AlainVagner> +1
13:08:18 <Detlev> +1
13:08:31 <Aashutosh> +1
13:08:57 <Mick> +1
13:09:20 <Joe_Humbert> move to next agendum
13:09:20 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Review 2nd round of voting on SCs that required little or no modification from WCAG2ICT -- taken up [from Joe_Humbert]
13:09:23 <julianmka> ACTION: Accept proposed language in 2.5.4 Github issue
13:09:50 <Devanshu> Devanshu has joined #matf
13:09:58 <Devanshu> present+
13:11:57 <Mick> +1
13:11:59 <AlainVagner> +1
13:12:01 <Jamie> +1
13:12:02 <julianmka> +1
13:12:06 <Illai> +1
13:12:07 <Joe_Humbert> +1
13:12:07 <RacheleD> +`
13:12:09 <quintinb> +1 to accept 2.5.3 as written from WCAG2ICT
13:12:10 <RacheleD> +1
13:12:15 <Detlev> +1
13:12:28 <quintinb> 2.5.4 sorry
13:12:46 <quintinb> ACTION: accept 2.5.4 as written from WCAG2ICT
13:12:47 <Jamie> 2.5.3 quintinb
13:12:59 <quintinb> accept 2.5.4 as written from WCAG2ICT
13:13:05 <Jamie> both
13:13:19 <quintinb> [ACTION] accept 2.5.3 as written from WCAG2ICT
13:13:26 <quintinb> ACTION: accept 2.5.3 as written from WCAG2ICT
13:16:40 <Detlev> q+
13:17:47 <Mick> My only concern with errors in dialogs is that they are generally removed once the user dismissing them. Ideally the error doesn't get removed until it's resolved. Hence I think inline provides more value.
13:17:49 <quintinb> Jamie: There was a question raised about the words "in text" - does the error need to be in the same location (as opposed to a dialog)?
13:18:38 <quintinb> Joe_Humbert indicated from the intent page seems to show that the mechanism of display is not covered
13:20:03 <julianmka> q+
13:20:11 <quintinb> +1 Mick - although persistant error messages may not update if they are repeated
13:20:14 <Joe_Humbert> ack julianmka
13:21:44 <Jamie> The SC is about the content itself
13:21:47 <Detlev> q+
13:21:48 <quintinb> julianmka: We do need to consider that we are used to nuances. We should probably advocate for multiple mechanisms of showing errors (if we are going to do it)
13:21:55 <Joe_Humbert> ack Detlev
13:21:58 <Jamie> +1 to julianmka
13:23:54 <quintinb> Detlev: The "in text" statement probably means that  the error should be more than just an image - that it could be detectable by different assistive technologies as text.
13:24:33 <Jamie> q+
13:24:51 <Illai> +1 to julianmka , but it is probably should be a part of a document like the "Understanding" part not a part of the SC
13:25:13 <Mick> I interoperate the same as Joe
13:25:16 <julianmka> Agreed, Illai
13:25:36 <Jamie> +1 Illai, no variation needed in this moment
13:25:47 <Joe_Humbert> ack Jamie
13:27:35 <quintinb> Jamie This is in the understanding section and is about the content of the error. It can look like that some of the errors are identified by it's location. The content may not need to have specific placement. Focus is on the understanding section. Location is not in the criteria
13:29:07 <quintinb> Jamie placement could be an additional SC - it's a different angle to consider. I'm suggesting to not make any changes to the SC as is
13:29:58 <Illai> +1
13:29:59 <RacheleD> +1
13:30:00 <julianmka> +1
13:30:01 <AlainVagner> +1
13:30:01 <Detlev> +1
13:30:02 <Jamie> +1
13:30:05 <quintinb> +1
13:30:06 <Joe_Humbert> +1
13:30:09 <Aashutosh> +1
13:30:10 <quintinb> ACTION: accept 3.3.1 as written from WCAG2ICT
13:30:41 <Detlev> q+
13:31:07 <Joe_Humbert> ack detlev
13:32:10 <quintinb> Detlev If you have a multi-field form with an error message - to identify the error you would need to describe which field. In this case it would not just be location. Perhaps by label or something. This would come from the general understanding
13:33:19 <Jamie> q+
13:33:28 <Joe_Humbert> ack Jamie
13:34:45 <quintinb> Jamie Question of functionality in native: "If an input error is automatically detected" - could there be a mechanism to "bypass" the intention of the criteria because it was not automatically detected
13:36:18 <quintinb> Joe_Humbert An error message would not display if it was not automatically detected
13:37:33 <quintinb> Detlev if there is no automation, then this probably isn't a reason for the SC
13:38:03 <quintinb> +1 to accept 3.3.3 as is
13:38:07 <AlainVagner> +1
13:38:10 <Joe_Humbert> +1
13:38:11 <Detlev> +1
13:38:12 <Illai> +1
13:38:15 <julianmka> +1
13:38:17 <Aashutosh> +1
13:38:25 <Mick> +2
13:38:27 <Mick> +1
13:38:38 <quintinb> ACTION: accept 3.3.3 as written from WCAG2ICT
13:38:59 <Mick> Very enthusiastic I am, lol
13:39:02 <Jamie> +1
13:39:45 <julianmka> q+
13:40:06 <Joe_Humbert> ack julianmka
13:40:39 <quintinb> julianmka no question!
13:41:06 <quintinb> +1 to accept 3.3.4 as is (save the "web" word) from WCAG2ICT
13:41:17 <Jamie> +1
13:41:18 <AlainVagner> +1
13:41:18 <Mick> +1
13:41:18 <Illai> +1
13:41:19 <Joe_Humbert> +1
13:41:21 <RacheleD> +1
13:41:23 <Detlev> +1
13:41:28 <quintinb> Who does web anyway?
13:41:29 <julianmka> +1
13:41:37 <Jamie> lol
13:41:40 <quintinb> ACTION: accept 3.3.4 as written (save the word "Web") from WCAG2ICT
13:42:13 <quintinb> Joe_Humbert new labels will be added when permissions are given
13:42:33 <Jamie> FYI I'm having zoom issues so now entirely IRC
13:42:47 <quintinb> Any comments on 3.3.7?
13:43:26 <quintinb> Happy to accept 3.3.7 as is from WCAG2ICT?
13:43:30 <Jamie> not to do WCAG 2.3 yet?
13:43:35 <Jamie> 2.2 i mean
13:43:35 <Joe_Humbert> +1
13:43:38 <julianmka> +1
13:43:39 <quintinb> +1
13:43:39 <AlainVagner> +1
13:43:46 <Detlev> +1
13:43:46 <Illai> +1
13:43:46 <Aashutosh> +1
13:43:46 <Mick> +1
13:43:50 <Jamie> +1
13:43:54 <quintinb> ACTION: accept 3.3.7 as written from WCAG2ICT
13:46:37 <quintinb> q+
13:46:47 <Joe_Humbert> ack quintinb
13:47:17 <julianmka> q+
13:47:42 <Jamie> summary quintinb?
13:48:28 <Jamie> topic Joe_Humbert?
13:48:29 <Detlev> q+
13:48:44 <quintinb> quintinb with custom versions of Android (AOSP) this may present problems? Does this apply to the operating system?
13:49:45 <quintinb> Joe_Humbert we can't apply this to operating systems
13:49:51 <quintinb> quintinb +1
13:50:00 <Jamie> which SC are we discussing?
13:50:05 <quintinb> 3.3.8
13:50:08 <Aashutosh> +1 quintinb
13:50:55 <quintinb> Sorry I meant to +1 Joe_Humbert, not myself, lol
13:51:03 <quintinb> Nothing more from me
13:51:05 <julianmka> q?
13:51:13 <julianmka> q-
13:51:16 <Joe_Humbert> ack julianmka
13:51:22 <Joe_Humbert> ack detlev
13:51:48 <quintinb> Detlev I think we should focus on the author and not the OS, we should focus on the app developer and not the OS
13:52:08 <Illai> +1 Detlev
13:52:22 <quintinb> +1 Detlev
13:52:45 <Joe_Humbert> +1 Detlev
13:53:04 <quintinb> +1 to accept 3.3.8 as written from WCAG2ICT, with leaving out the notes
13:53:06 <Jamie> change from "web" in the WCAG2ICT language proposal
13:53:48 <Joe_Humbert> +1
13:53:49 <Detlev> +1
13:53:51 <Jamie> +1
13:53:51 <Illai> +1
13:53:54 <julianmka> +1
13:53:55 <quintinb> +1
13:53:56 <Mick> +1
13:53:57 <Aashutosh> +1
13:54:06 <quintinb> ACTION: accept 3.3.8 as a first draft from WCAG2ICT, with leaving out the notes and removing "web" references
13:55:13 <Aashutosh> End early! its already late in Singapore!
13:55:21 <Detlev> let's have it next meeting
13:55:32 <quintinb> Or we could spend 10 minutes discussing whether to end early
13:55:39 <Jamie> 2.4.11
13:55:39 <quintinb> :D
13:55:42 <julianmka> We can always start discussing in the comments :D
13:56:08 <quintinb> ACTION: add 2.4.11 to agenda for next time
13:56:38 <Aashutosh> Aashutosh has left #matf
13:57:27 <Joe_Humbert> Zakim, list participants
13:57:27 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Joe_Humbert, AlainVagner, quintinb, Aashutosh, RacheleD, julianmka, Detlev, Jamie, Mick, Devanshu, `
13:58:02 <Joe_Humbert> rrsagent, make minutes
13:58:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/18-matf-minutes.html Joe_Humbert
13:59:31 <Joe_Humbert> rrsagent, bye
13:59:31 <RRSAgent> I see 9 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2024/09/18-matf-actions.rdf :
13:59:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Accept proposed language in 2.5.4 Github issue [1]
13:59:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2024/09/18-matf-irc#T13-09-23
13:59:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: accept 2.5.4 as written from WCAG2ICT [2]
13:59:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2024/09/18-matf-irc#T13-12-46
13:59:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: accept 2.5.3 as written from WCAG2ICT [3]
13:59:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2024/09/18-matf-irc#T13-13-26
13:59:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: accept 3.3.1 as written from WCAG2ICT [4]
13:59:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2024/09/18-matf-irc#T13-30-10
13:59:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: accept 3.3.3 as written from WCAG2ICT [5]
13:59:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2024/09/18-matf-irc#T13-38-38
13:59:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: accept 3.3.4 as written (save the word "Web") from WCAG2ICT [6]
13:59:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2024/09/18-matf-irc#T13-41-40
13:59:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: accept 3.3.7 as written from WCAG2ICT [7]
13:59:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2024/09/18-matf-irc#T13-43-54
13:59:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: accept 3.3.8 as a first draft from WCAG2ICT, with leaving out the notes and removing "web" references [8]
13:59:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2024/09/18-matf-irc#T13-54-06
13:59:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: add 2.4.11 to agenda for next time [9]
13:59:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2024/09/18-matf-irc#T13-56-08