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13:34:04 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/09/06-pmwg-irc
13:34:04 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:34:05 <Zakim> Meeting: Publishing Maintenance Working Group
13:34:37 <ivan> chair: wendy
13:34:56 <ivan> date: 2024-09-06
13:35:12 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing Maintenance Working Group Telco
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13:56:29 <rickj> present+
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13:59:53 <ivan> present+
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14:00:13 <ivan> present+ avneesh, brady,
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14:00:22 <ivan> present+ wendy, charles
14:00:30 <toshiakikoike> present+
14:00:31 <ivan> present+ tzviya
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14:02:01 <gpellegrino> present+
14:02:13 <duga> present+
14:02:15 <ivan> present+ dhall
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14:02:22 <shiestyle> present+
14:02:33 <ivan> present+ matt
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14:04:29 <duga> scribe+
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14:04:44 <wendyreid> https://github.com/w3c/pm-wg/wiki/TPAC-2024-Agenda-(Draft)
14:04:49 <duga> wendyreid: Meeting is coming up!
14:04:52 <MasakazuKitahara> present+
14:04:58 <davehall> present+
14:05:02 <Hadrien> present+
14:05:29 <CharlesL> CharlesL has joined #pmwg
14:05:36 <duga> ... there are pointers to some topics, but want feedback (on existing items and missing items)
14:05:38 <gautierchomel> present+
14:05:39 <CharlesL> present+
14:06:12 <wendyreid> https://www.w3.org/2024/09/TPAC/registration.html
14:06:30 <duga> ... Also please register if you plan to attend - even if remote!
14:06:31 <ivan> present+ gautier
14:07:05 <ivan> present+ laurent
14:07:21 <duga> ... we will start with scrolled content/webtoons
14:07:49 <duga> ... would like to get as much implementation stuff as possible
14:08:07 <duga> ... next is substantive changes to epub
14:08:19 <duga> ... mostly xhtml stuff
14:08:21 <duga> q+
14:08:38 <wendyreid> ack duga
14:09:26 <wendyreid> scribe+
14:09:54 <wendyreid> duga: I asked for the making changes discussion to be first because it might impact the web toons discussion
14:10:05 <CharlesL> q+
14:10:05 <wendyreid> ... depending on the direction we choose and the type of change it is
14:10:28 <duga> CharlesL: Having webtoons first might push the next meeting
14:10:41 <Hadrien> +1 for substantive changes as the first item
14:11:02 <ivan> q?
14:11:19 <ivan> q+
14:11:26 <wendyreid> ack CharlesL
14:11:29 <wendyreid> ack ivan
14:12:21 <duga> ivan: Order is due to timing concerns
14:12:37 <shiestyle> q+
14:13:05 <wendyreid> duga: We did discuss that at the last meeting, we asked, we got a lot of "that's a bad time but we'll be there"
14:13:31 <wendyreid> ack shiestyle
14:13:39 <AvneeshSingh> q+
14:13:54 <duga> shiestyle: Asking about timezone in Japanese
14:14:13 <LaurentLM> LaurentLM has joined #pmwg
14:14:19 <LaurentLM> present+ Laurent
14:14:20 <wendyreid> wendyreid: Alternate proposal: do webtoons at the end of the day, early morning Japan time
14:14:45 <wendyreid> ack AvneeshSingh
14:15:28 <duga> AvneeshSingh: Maybe discuss at TPAC but not make a final decision
14:15:43 <duga> ... Gives us some wiggle room to discuss at the WG meeting
14:16:23 <duga> wendyreid: Agreed, we don't have to decide
14:16:31 <duga> ... But it would be great to decide on webtoons
14:16:34 <ivan> q+
14:16:44 <wendyreid> ack ivan
14:17:11 <duga> ivan: Would prefer to make a final decision at TPAC
14:17:19 <duga> ... this has been dragging for too long
14:17:59 <duga> wendyreid: If we open the issues and we have pre-discussion
14:18:06 <duga> ... would that help?
14:18:17 <duga> ivan: Yes, but we should aim to close at TPAC
14:18:49 <ivan> q+
14:19:08 <duga> wendyreid: [continues to review current agenda]
14:19:24 <wendyreid> ack ivan
14:19:24 <duga> ... [missed some] Then on to legistlation
14:19:42 <duga> ivan: Back to annotations, I wonder if Laurent can talk more about their project
14:19:56 <duga> LaurentLM: No, not too early
14:20:04 <wendyreid> s/[missed some]/if there are any links missing for annotations please let me know,/
14:20:18 <duga> ... we will be able to put it on github and discuss before TPAC
14:21:26 <duga> ... Main issue is identifiers and locators
14:22:11 <duga> wendyreid: EU a11y act, and ADA was updated (Title 2 requires WCAG 2.1 stuff)
14:22:41 <duga> ... Title 3 will likely also be updated
14:23:05 <duga> ... then audio book a11y and text to speech
14:23:22 <duga> ... Hadrien, maybe you can talk to this?
14:23:41 <duga> Hadrien: yes, I will be remote, but I will attend and discuss
14:23:57 <duga> wendyreid: Last bit is any other business
14:24:18 <ivan> q+
14:24:27 <wendyreid> ack ivan
14:25:15 <duga> ivan: Depends on Matt being there, since he knows what has changed
14:25:37 <duga> matt: I will be there
14:25:41 <duga> q+
14:25:45 <wendyreid> ack duga
14:26:08 <wendyreid> duga: For webtoons, homework for people is to look at the existing issue and the proposals
14:26:13 <wendyreid> https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/pull/2602
14:26:28 <ivan> q+
14:26:38 <wendyreid> duga: Precomment before TPAC, is there any homework for the changes to EPUB topic
14:26:45 <wendyreid> ... what are the process requirements?
14:26:51 <tzviya_> q+
14:26:53 <Hadrien> q+
14:26:57 <wendyreid> ... is there any documentation we need before Anaheim
14:26:59 <wendyreid> ack ivan
14:27:31 <AvneeshSingh> q+
14:28:46 <wendyreid> ack tzviya_
14:29:12 <wendyreid> ivan: I won't make you read the process doc, but for any major changes we need to recharter
14:29:30 <wendyreid> ... we're close-ish to the end of our charter, so we may be helping ourselves
14:29:43 <wendyreid> ... we need to define what we want to do clearly
14:30:11 <wendyreid> tzviya_: We met back in 2019 in Toronto where we talked about this, we may need to dig up the minutes
14:30:15 <wendyreid> ... serializing HTML
14:30:33 <ivan> q+
14:30:34 <wendyreid> ... many of us were there, we talked a lot about the pros and cons
14:31:01 <wendyreid> ... we don't need to repeat ourselves, so we should review ahead
14:31:21 <wendyreid> ... I don't know if it's good or bad to review them, things have changed, but it may give people perspective
14:31:31 <wendyreid> ... the question now is what can reading systems handle
14:31:36 <wendyreid> ... publishers will adapt
14:31:46 <wendyreid> ack Hadrien
14:31:57 <duga> Hadrien: Want to mention something else
14:32:36 <duga> ... I have been working in accessible comics, how it is produced today and what could be done to make them truely accessible
14:32:47 <duga> ... right now it is just a script and no more
14:33:08 <duga> ... created some alternate examples, what is different about comics, etc
14:33:19 <duga> ... may apply to fixed layout content and a11y
14:33:31 <duga> ... may also apply to webtoons
14:34:05 <duga> ... could also apply to regulation, depending on what happens with legistlation around a11y and comics
14:34:09 <CharlesL> q+
14:34:15 <wendyreid> ack AvneeshSingh
14:34:51 <duga> AvneeshSingh: Commenting on charter - before we even think about the charter we have to tackle the problem Tzviya mentioned
14:35:26 <duga> ... We need to discuss strategy so we don't end up writing a spec and no one comes
14:35:40 <wendyreid> ack ivan
14:35:43 <duga> ... we should figure out what the plan is for epub next, which should be the focus
14:35:55 <duga> ivan: I agree, and as part of the charter this is necessary
14:36:14 <duga> ... But under the current charter, our hands are very tied
14:36:58 <duga> ... back to html5 - it became a little more urgent because the XHTML is no longer going forward
14:37:16 <wendyreid> ack CharlesL
14:37:54 <duga> CharlesL: I am testing a bunch of fixed layout books and found some interesting results
14:38:05 <duga> ... Looking at several readers
14:38:27 <duga> ... would love to get this example comic and share results
14:40:29 <duga> tzviya_: We had a website that had all the minutes from the IG
14:40:35 <duga> ... I will look for the minutes
14:40:40 <AvneeshSingh> q+
14:40:41 <duga> ivan: I will look as well
14:41:00 <duga> ... maybe it was the Digital Publishing Working Group
14:41:02 <wendyreid> ack AvneeshSingh
14:41:19 <duga> AvneeshSingh: And it was discussed in the epubwg
14:42:50 <duga> ... Would it be possible to create an xhtml->html task force headed by someone who understands the problems
14:43:21 <gpellegrino> q+
14:43:22 <duga> wendyreid: There are two issues - impact to RS and publishers
14:43:29 <wendyreid> ack gpellegrino
14:43:29 <duga> ... Mostly the tooling side
14:43:52 <tzviya_> https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/publ-wg/Meetings/Minutes/2018/2018-05-30-pwg.html
14:43:58 <tzviya_> https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/publ-wg/Meetings/Minutes/2018/2018-05-31-pwg.html
14:44:21 <duga> ivan: We need something like that even for the recharter
14:44:49 <duga> wendyreid: Other side is, what version of epub do we mean? Probably not 3.3
14:46:06 <duga> ivan: Introducing the new and improved Tzviya!
14:46:21 <duga> ... She has a new job and she is now on W3C staff
14:46:39 <duga> ... staff can't chair, which is why she is no longer a chair
14:47:01 <duga> ... Thank you Tzviya for everything, and we hope you will stay in the group!
14:47:35 <duga> tzviya_: I am the Sustainability Lead, working on member engagement in NA
14:47:58 <duga> ... And I will be sticking around the group
14:48:48 <wendyreid> https://www.w3.org/2024/09/TPAC/registration.html
14:49:06 <duga> wendyreid: We can end a little early, but *please* register for TPAC if you are coming
14:49:18 <duga> ... Also please do the survey
14:49:21 <wendyreid> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/2AWUdzTO/
14:50:06 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:50:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/09/06-pmwg-minutes.html ivan
14:50:57 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
14:50:57 <RRSAgent> I see no action items