14:53:55 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #coga
14:54:00 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/08/19-coga-irc
14:54:00 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:54:01 <Zakim> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:54:02 <lisa> agenda?
14:54:10 <lisa> regrets+ EA
14:54:25 <lisa> RRSAgent, publish minute
14:54:25 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'publish minute', lisa.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:54:45 <lisa> RRSAgent, publish minutes
14:54:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/19-coga-minutes.html lisa
14:59:32 <lisa> Q?
15:01:57 <lisa> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Cu_qVP1WBz2TbsrAjLbbeb55RAlJmu9kfHamriL1Ocs/edit?gid=1686096268#gid=1686096268
15:02:39 <LenB> LenB has joined #coga
15:02:46 <LenB> present+
15:03:18 <Jennie> Jennie has joined #COGA
15:03:29 <Jennie> present+
15:03:35 <Becca_Monteleone> Becca_Monteleone has joined #coga
15:03:45 <Jennie> * I can scribe if one is still needed.
15:04:03 <Jennie> scribe: Jennie
15:04:04 <Becca_Monteleone> present+
15:04:51 <lisa> next item
15:05:04 <lisa> thank you Jennie
15:05:23 <Jennie> Lisa: There will be a working meeting for supported decision making after this call
15:05:23 <tburtin> tburtin has joined #coga
15:05:29 <tburtin> present+
15:05:34 <lisa> next item
15:05:36 <Jennie> ...If we finish this call's agenda early, we can start at that point
15:06:06 <lisa> next item
15:06:15 <Jennie> Lisa: general updates
15:06:28 <Jennie> ...We are taking 2 weeks off
15:06:36 <Jennie> ...Next week and the week after
15:06:50 <Jennie> ...David shared an email about CTAUR
15:07:11 <Jennie> ...This is the work by APA - Janina's group on collaborative environments
15:07:22 <Jennie> ...This includes Google docs, Github...where people work together
15:07:32 <Jennie> ...They have put together user needs, which some vendors will be reviewing
15:07:36 <Jan> Jan has joined #coga
15:07:43 <Jan> present+
15:07:48 <Jennie> ...They (APA) made some changes, which they feel should address our needs
15:07:54 <lisa> ctaur document is at https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2024Aug/0040.html
15:08:07 <Jennie> ...That is David's email
15:08:17 <lisa> I've put together a Google Doc for this purpose. Please leave any comments about CTAUR here:
15:08:17 <lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dFjMfobPdWUz0a-wm6NQKN_nRXVjSLvJlHcgFF0SnHc/edit?usp=sharing
15:08:33 <Jennie> ...David would like us to comment on the latest draft
15:08:55 <lisa> regrets+ david
15:08:56 <Jennie> ...Does anyone feel they will have time to review in the next 2 weeks?
15:09:00 <Jennie> Len: I can help
15:09:10 <Jennie> Lisa: I will try as well.
15:10:09 <lisa> regrets+ julie
15:10:25 <Jennie> Jan: Accessibility Guidelines Working Group (AG) is working on sprints
15:10:45 <Jennie> ...Julie is leading one group - and shared with the group the card sort
15:11:13 <Jennie> ...AG is trying to determine write an assertion, and see what that could look like
15:11:31 <Jennie> ...the subgroup sprints is not during the main group - they are at their own times
15:11:39 <Jennie> ...The implied meaning is the group Julie is leading
15:11:48 <Jennie> ...The assertions work is during the main AG group
15:12:02 <Jennie> Lisa: Joining the meetings is good if people are available.
15:12:07 <Jennie> ...They meet tomorrow
15:12:30 <Jennie> Jan: Internationalization - the community group, had been working on feedback on the WCAG 3.0 outcomes
15:12:42 <Jennie> ...They came up with a few additional methods for feedback for plain language
15:12:53 <Jennie> ...This is their primary concern - the language is difficult to understand.
15:13:04 <Jennie> ...Especially for people which speak different languages
15:13:18 <Jennie> ...We will send information to AG chairs to ask if the feedback methodology is sufficient
15:13:32 <Jennie> ...And to ask if they would like us to give feedback in this way
15:13:44 <Jennie> Lisa: What happened to our request to make a note?
15:13:59 <Jennie> Jan: I sent it over to Rain, and I thought it was going to be included, based on our last meeting.
15:14:10 <Jennie> ...But I have not been at the structure meeting
15:14:16 <Jennie> ...I will forward the email to you
15:14:33 <Jennie> Len: Who leads the internationalization group?
15:14:48 <Jennie> Jan: Julie leads the implied meaning and clear language subgroups
15:15:00 <Jennie> ...Lisa and I co-chair the internationalization community group
15:15:21 <Jennie> Lisa: I am a placeholder
15:15:35 <Jennie> Len: I have someone who may want to join. I will send the name to Jan by email
15:15:50 <Jennie> Jan: currently most of our members are from Japan
15:15:58 <Jennie> ...The meeting time will switch in October
15:16:03 <lisa> next item
15:16:24 <Jennie> Lisa: We are taking 2 weeks off
15:16:35 <Jennie> ...1st editor's draft is for user testing - a structured proposal
15:16:42 <Jennie> ...It will be finished in the next few days
15:16:46 <lisa> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/coga/Roy-prototype/usable-prototype/index-prototype2.html
15:16:53 <Jennie> ...It will get feedback on the new structure
15:16:59 <Jennie> ...It will start in August
15:17:04 <Jennie> ...There are still a few changes
15:17:15 <Jennie> ...I would like feedback from the group - ok moving forward with user testing?
15:17:21 <Jennie> ...We are looking for findability
15:17:45 <Jennie> ...Rain is heading the group having users review this new structure for the document (user testing)
15:18:47 <Jennie> ...We are working on the remaining issues to address the "look and feel"
15:19:04 <lisa> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/coga/Roy-prototype/usable-prototype/index-prototype2.html#use-icons-that-help-the-user
15:19:44 <Jennie> ...Do we feel we need (as a group) to review before it goes to user testing?
15:20:14 <Jennie> ...I think it would be difficult to change at this point in time, even if we had feedback.
15:20:24 <Jennie> ...Are we comfortable letting Rain progress to the next stage?
15:20:26 <lisa> +1
15:20:30 <Jennie> Jennie: +1
15:20:31 <Becca_Monteleone> +1 to move to user testing
15:20:33 <tburtin> +1
15:20:36 <LenB> +1
15:20:39 <Jan> +1
15:20:47 <lisa> any objections?
15:20:52 <lisa> next item
15:21:10 <Jennie> Lisa: Issue papers
15:21:29 <Jennie> ...Context: we write issue papers on sub-topics like Supported Decision Making
15:21:37 <Jennie> ...We were to have an editor's draft
15:21:52 <Jennie> ...Editor's draft: not a wide publication. We don't have to show people if we are not ready.
15:22:08 <Jennie> ...We have a module up
15:22:16 <lisa> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/coga/issue-papers-v2/issue-papers/index.html
15:22:50 <Jennie> Lisa: We would like 1. For those we are publishing as new modules to be in a slightly better state
15:23:02 <Jennie> ...They have had a lot of changes which make it easier to read
15:23:13 <Jennie> ...And 2. We would like to add Supported Decision Making to this list
15:23:20 <Jennie> ...It won't be edited
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15:23:56 <Jennie> ...I don't know what is possible if we want to keep to the deadline
15:24:14 <Jennie> ...Deadline rationale: to show people in September - have breakout sessions at TPAC
15:24:26 <Jennie> ...We  might decide it is not ready, at the 1st meeting in September
15:24:51 <lisa> Ed note: This is an early draft The task force intends to add
15:24:52 <lisa> -more research
15:24:52 <lisa> -increased and improved discussion
15:24:52 <lisa> -significant editorial changes including for citations and to be inline with our style guided
15:24:53 <lisa> Please feel free to let us know any research we should be looking at as well as other comments etc.
15:24:55 <Jennie> ...I think we should publish them as an editor's draft and get an editor's note ready - to put at the beginning
15:25:32 <Jennie> ...Edits to this editor's note are welcome
15:25:52 <Jennie> ...I think we should try to do what we can by the end of the week, add the note, then start the process
15:26:07 <Jennie> ...getting it onto people's agenda to look at it (APA and AG)
15:26:20 <Jennie> ...and get approval to publish as an editor's draft
15:26:34 <Jennie> ...The process to updating it, if this was the path, would be easier
15:26:45 <lisa> Q?
15:26:47 <Jennie> ...Option 2: is say we are not ready, and get it out at a later stage
15:26:53 <Jennie> ...What do you think?
15:26:56 <Becca_Monteleone> q+
15:27:00 <Jennie> ...I would also send this out
15:27:02 <lisa> ack next
15:27:15 <Jennie> Becca: Can you clarify what the pros and cons of having it ready for TPAC?
15:27:37 <Jennie> ...What is the consequence for holding back?
15:27:37 <Jennie> Lisa: If we have the editor's draft, we can do that
15:27:49 <Jennie> ...Then we can talk about it in breakout sessions
15:28:04 <Jennie> ...We may decide we don't want to if the papers don't look serious enough yet
15:28:19 <Jennie> ....I think the deadline for breakouts is the 15th of September
15:28:24 <Jennie> ...about 2 weeks before TPAC
15:28:33 <Jennie> ...We can decide the first week of September
15:28:41 <LenB> q+
15:29:04 <Jennie> Lisa: We can also just do editor's draft for the 3 documents we have
15:29:16 <Jennie> ...Only the safety one will change significantly
15:29:24 <Jennie> ...We can work on that one during the editor's call
15:29:37 <lisa> ack next
15:29:41 <Jennie> Len: Which documents are we discussing?
15:30:24 <Becca_Monteleone> I actually can't attend the editor's meeting this week due to travel for work. My thought is that the drafts will not be ready in time for TPAC, given the conversation from last editor's meeting.
15:31:11 <Jennie> Lisa: "Cognitive Accessibility Issue Papers" gets a lot of views, but is out of date
15:31:26 <Jennie> ...In the modules section - these are the papers we are workin gon
15:31:36 <Jennie> ...We not the old ones here as well, clearly  labeled
15:32:10 <Jennie> ...We want to add (potentially) supported, online, decision making, but that is the least mature
15:32:20 <Jennie> ...The 3 listed are in Github
15:32:30 <Jennie> ...We can add an improved editor's note
15:33:00 <Becca_Monteleone> Google doc version of Safety and Wellbeing paper currently being edited: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VxJ0X8dC6dtL3Fm26_8XsuscGaSRR2Hr2YFgMaQeD0k/edit?usp=drive_web&ouid=102321809599068419955
15:33:17 <Jennie> ...If we decide to publish we would ask Roy to publish it, publish it to TR - provides one web address
15:33:26 <Jennie> ...Right now: we are discussing this cover document
15:34:05 <Jennie> ...Editor's notes are for early stage comments from AG, APA, anyone else inside the WAI who wants to look at it
15:34:27 <Jennie> ...proposal: get in the changes we can
15:34:39 <Becca_Monteleone> q+
15:34:40 <Jennie> ...I can add the editor's notes when necessary
15:34:44 <Jennie> ...Send to Roy on Friday
15:34:54 <Jennie> ...Then ask APA and AG to get it on their agendas
15:35:07 <Jennie> ...Other option: wait until it is better, and take our time
15:35:10 <Jennie> ...Maybe in a month
15:35:19 <lisa> ack next
15:35:30 <Jennie> Becca: I won't be at the call on Thursday
15:35:49 <Jennie> Lisa: Could you put your changes into Github? Or would we leave it as is for now
15:35:57 <Jennie> Becca: I don't know how
15:36:18 <Jennie> ...and may need to have a conversation about potential changes
15:36:30 <Jennie> ...We need to have this before the changes were implemented
15:36:52 <Jennie> Lisa: There are substantive changes and editorial changes
15:37:13 <Jennie> ...We could ask to publish with those changes
15:37:54 <Jennie> ....We could say including moving sentences so it reads better
15:38:13 <Jennie> ...Then we can have an editor's call when you get back
15:38:28 <Jennie> ...Do we want to try to push forward with these 3 papers?
15:38:33 <lisa> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/coga/issue-papers-v2/issue-papers/index.html#modules
15:38:44 <Jennie> Jennie: 0, and I won't be able to attend the first few meetings in September
15:39:25 <lisa> +1
15:39:36 <LenB> +1
15:39:44 <tburtin> +1
15:39:56 <lisa> any objections?
15:39:58 <Becca_Monteleone> +1 with caveat that there is a note about editorial v. substantive changes
15:40:16 <Jan> 0 - same as Jennie, I won't have bandwidth until October 1
15:40:47 <Jennie> Lisa: Note re the concern: we would ask for approval, but let them know there will be editorial changes
15:40:53 <Jennie> Becca: thank you for clarifying
15:41:04 <Jennie> Lisa: I see a consensus, but not a strong consensus
15:41:10 <Jennie> ...I will also send this to the list
15:42:05 <lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g9N-_3l-d6t0ppZcIIZ98k00x7ZE7h3ayq0OCX9Ycu4/edit
15:42:11 <Jennie> Lisa: Next - decide what to do with supported decision making
15:42:43 <Jennie> ...There won't be time to have done even the 1st editorial pass
15:42:51 <Jennie> ...I can put it into Github
15:43:12 <Jennie> ... Option 1: We could leave it out, and it won't be in TPAC break out sessions
15:43:27 <Jennie> ...Option 2: say these are in early stages, and you can review in Google docs
15:44:01 <Jennie> ...Option 3: changes that are achieved by the end of week could get into Github with a note - "This is a very early draft" and put it in editor's note for sections needing discussion
15:44:18 <Jennie> ...I can send this to the list on Thursday, then on Tuesday move it into Github
15:44:53 <Jennie> ...I like to get things out there so people can start saying why they agree or disagree
15:45:06 <Jennie> ...What do you think?
15:47:23 <Jennie> Jennie: I have concerns that others may find the document on the internet and not notice or understand that the language is not totally agreed upon, and this may impact other related areas
15:47:37 <Jennie> Becca: I agree with Jennie - I think having more consensus around it is probably the best call
15:48:03 <Jennie> Lisa: Those aren't strong -1s but some suggestions to wait for publishing it
15:48:27 <Jennie> ...This and the safety paper would be the interesting ones to bring to TPAC
15:48:51 <Jennie> ...Do we want a note in the issue paper, saying that early drafts can be seen in the Google docs?
15:49:07 <Jennie> ...It does not look authorative
15:49:25 <Jennie> ...People would be welcome to add comments
15:49:30 <Jennie> ...Or, should we just leave it
15:50:35 <lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g9N-_3l-d6t0ppZcIIZ98k00x7ZE7h3ayq0OCX9Ycu4/edit
15:50:36 <Jennie> Jennie: It could be put into a different format, like a PowerPoint, might be a way to distinguish it's state
15:50:43 <Jennie> ...That could be presented at TPAC
15:51:47 <Jennie> ....If sharing the Google doc broader, just make sure nothing should be included that is identifiable
15:52:05 <Jennie> Lisa: Sounds like we should remove the appendix
15:52:16 <Jennie> ...Sounds like we should wait on this
15:52:36 <Jennie> ...Decision: let's wait on this
15:53:13 <Jennie> ...We will try to publish in the next editor's draft - scheduled for October
15:53:17 <lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XBu9OhGoMG4lLDBRaRFZZxGoNWW-aDkKkVKrypfPvVc/edit#heading=h.ykqwx9vsxdya
15:53:35 <Jennie> Lisa: So we are on schedule, by moving forward with 3 papers
15:53:59 <Jennie> ...The July 2024 section - this is what we are doing right now
15:54:26 <Jennie> ...In September (which will most likely move to October) we are to have 4-5 papers to review, feedback on structure
15:54:43 <Jennie> ...end of September, but probably October
15:55:24 <Jennie> ...So we will make the editor's draft with 3 papers
15:55:34 <Jennie> ...And maybe tidy it up
15:55:44 <Jennie> ...And ask that we can incrementally make editorial changes
15:55:50 <Jennie> ...Any objections?
15:56:23 <Jennie> ...I may put in to the editor's note that more papers will be coming in the next editor's draft (without naming or linking to them)
15:56:26 <lisa> +1
15:56:40 <Jennie> +1
15:56:50 <Becca_Monteleone> +1
15:57:17 <lisa> next item
15:57:53 <Jennie> Lisa: structure, editor's, and mental health - all on Thursday
15:58:01 <Jennie> ...Also the standard AG meeting on Tuesday (tomorrow)
15:58:12 <Jennie> Jan: Will you send out the new schedule for subgroup meetings?
15:58:16 <Jennie> Lisa: Yes, I will do that
15:58:40 <Jennie> ...Please send dates for the next quarter through end of year, that would be great.
15:58:58 <Jennie> Jan: I can start a thread with subgroup leaders to ask for that
15:59:03 <lisa> RRSAgent, publish minutes
15:59:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/19-coga-minutes.html lisa
15:59:19 <Jennie> Lisa: Thank you Jan!
15:59:24 <lisa> next item
15:59:35 <lisa> close item 6
15:59:51 <Becca_Monteleone> I also have to drop for another meeting!
16:00:03 <lisa> RRSAgent, publish minute
16:00:03 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'publish minute', lisa.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:00:16 <lisa> next item
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16:07:08 <lisa> q?
16:09:39 <lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wu0WYcvCpp-zIz2NzPk2AuTJOrzgh3T4sKQgzCa10ps/edit
16:10:41 <lisa> reserch plan at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wu0WYcvCpp-zIz2NzPk2AuTJOrzgh3T4sKQgzCa10ps/edit
16:10:58 <lisa> litary review instuctions and apendix of sear terms used
16:19:21 <lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g9N-_3l-d6t0ppZcIIZ98k00x7ZE7h3ayq0OCX9Ycu4/edit#heading=h.e3xgrrovlb45
16:44:44 <lisa> lisa has joined #coga
16:44:51 <lisa> RRSAgent, publish minutes
16:44:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/19-coga-minutes.html lisa
17:29:17 <LenB> LenB has left #coga