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15:04:39 <dbooth> rrsagent, make logs public
15:04:48 <dbooth> Meeting: FHIR RDF
15:05:06 <dbooth> Topic: Next week
15:05:20 <dbooth> dbooth: I'll be out.  Erich Bremer offered to chair.
15:05:46 <dbooth> Topic:
15:06:26 <dbooth> Topic: DICOM
15:07:00 <dbooth> erich: Discussion about etting a namespace for mapping DICOM enums to URIs.  Grahame enquired from David Clooney.
15:07:22 <dbooth> detlef: There's an ont that defines thes URIs, though a few were not included.
15:07:39 <dbooth> ... Can use the official DICOM namespace?   Not possible.
15:07:50 <dbooth> ... Some are describing units.
15:08:07 <dbooth> ... Another list is of clinical terms.
15:08:37 <dbooth> ... E.g., "US" means two different things, so they cannot use the same URI.
15:09:11 <dbooth> ... Need to stick to what DICOM has defined.  If they defined URI we can use them, otherwise we use a string or your own URIs.
15:09:35 <dbooth> ... A few people think that David Clooney is right, and they'll have a hard time refactoring what DICOM has provided.
15:10:39 <dbooth> ... Clooney thinks the enums cannot just be turned into URIs.
15:11:03 <dbooth> erich: How much do we RDF-ize things?
15:11:40 <dbooth> erich: RDF work that was done on DICOM seems to be that one section, and then they stopped.
15:15:57 <dbooth> ACTION: Erich to email DBooth DICOM ont link, and DBooth to intro Dave Beckett
15:16:29 <dbooth> erich: Also David Clooney thinks if there isn't DICOM community push, nothing will happen.
15:18:27 <dbooth> ... Clooney shared his code w me.
15:21:37 <dbooth> ... I'm all for pushing this forward.
15:26:34 <dbooth> ... There was a group in California doing early DICOM work, and David Clooney was a part of it, but it stopped.
15:26:58 <dbooth> ... DICOM ont on bioportal keeps getting downloaded.
15:31:22 <dbooth> Meta issue for DICOM: https://github.com/w3c/hcls-fhir-rdf/issues/147
15:34:14 <dbooth> detlef: RDF lists are a problem in SPARQL for retaining the order of polygon segments.
15:34:32 <dbooth> erich: But they could now be represented as well-known text strings.
15:34:44 <dbooth> ... But they can't be indexed well.
15:35:17 <dbooth> erich: There's a binary version of well-known text, more array-like.
15:35:27 <dbooth> ... And could be sent in RDF.
15:35:49 <dbooth> ... But the problem: Unless your triplestore knows how to do spatial indexing, you want get the performance.
15:36:17 <dbooth> ... I developed my own way of dealing w things.  I sit on an image repo committee.  Got invited w NIH person, and David Clooney sits onthese mtgs.
15:36:58 <dbooth> ... My point: Although nice to do polygons in DICOM, they didn't think about spatial indexing.  I convert them to Hilbert polygons, which allows my SPARQL to go quickly.
15:37:39 <dbooth> ... Invited to talk about the spatial indexing problem.
15:38:02 <dbooth> dbooth: DICOM should deal w that.
15:38:31 <dbooth> erich: Would love a simple transfer syntax, but that won't be sufficient for efficient query.
15:44:17 <dbooth> erich: Re polygons, how about using well-known text?
15:44:28 <dbooth> detlef: It's an option.
15:47:12 <dbooth> erich: There is intrest in the geo SPARQL group.
15:47:47 <dbooth> ... Jena and virtuoso have spatial indexing.  Well-known text might be a better choice than other things.
15:48:24 <dbooth> ... There's also well-known binary.
15:48:40 <dbooth> ... Open Spatial added curved polygon.
15:48:55 <dbooth> ... Seems like there is a well-known rep of each of the polygon types.
15:49:22 <dbooth> ... Something like HDT binary RDF, when you store binhex strings, it stores it as a string, not binary.
15:49:52 <dbooth> ... Will systems actually take advantage of the binary?
15:50:22 <dbooth> detlef: What if it's bitmaps instead of polygons?  Lots are just huge blobs.
15:50:28 <dbooth> ... Gray scale values.
15:51:02 <dbooth> erich: Is it in RDF as a string, or as a file reference?
15:51:13 <dbooth> detlef: I prefer external http reference.
15:51:51 <dbooth> ... A JSON format offers both.
15:52:17 <dbooth> ... That one uses binary data.  What's the point of storing it as a string in RDF?
15:52:27 <dbooth> ... The point of RDF is to link w other data.
15:53:02 <dbooth> erich: Have you looked at complex datatypes work in RDF?  Might be  a way to reference it.
15:53:16 <dbooth> detlef: Available yet?
15:53:26 <dbooth> erich: It's a proposal from Amazon group.
15:53:47 <dbooth> ... I'd focus on today's tech.
15:55:07 <dbooth> erich: Can the sys take advantaage of the data?  Does well-known text help?
15:55:17 <dbooth> ... What about raster data?
15:55:34 <dbooth> ... But RDF lists will not a  useful form for it.
15:56:35 <dbooth> erich: In my processing, want to annotate images and link kthem spatially w other data.
15:57:05 <dbooth> dbooth: image processing is generally very specialized.  Most RDF linkage is of the metadata for the image.
15:57:15 <dbooth> eric: Agree.
15:57:41 <dbooth> ... Can we come up w concrete use cases we care about?  I think we don't want the the binary image data in RDF.
15:58:17 <dbooth> erich: Curious what a DICOM server does when asked for raster data?
15:58:33 <dbooth> detlef: I think there's a header for returning binary.
16:22:22 <dbooth> ADJOURNED
16:31:54 <dbooth> Present: David Booth, Erich Bremer, Detlef Grittner, Jim Balhoff, EricP (last 15 minutes)
16:32:00 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:32:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/15-hcls-minutes.html dbooth
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18:12:31 <dbooth> rrsagent, make logs public
18:12:36 <dbooth> Chair: David Booth
18:12:43 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:12:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/08/15-hcls-minutes.html dbooth