12:18:17 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #apa
12:18:22 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/07/17-apa-irc
12:18:22 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
12:18:23 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), janina
12:18:32 <janina> Meeting: APA Weekly Teleconference
12:18:53 <janina> Date: 17 Jul 2024
12:18:58 <janina> Chair: Janina
12:19:03 <janina> agenda+ Agenda Review &amp; Announcements
12:19:03 <janina> agenda+ TPAC 2024 Planning
12:19:03 <janina> agenda+ Interim update on WCAG2ICT reivew
12:19:03 <janina> agenda+ EPUB Fixed Layout
12:19:03 <janina> agenda+ Task Force &amp; Deliverables Updates
12:19:05 <janina> agenda+ [New Charters Review](https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22)
12:19:08 <janina> agenda+ [HR A11y Review Comment Tracker](https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review)
12:19:11 <janina> agenda+ [Explicit Review Requests](https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues)
12:19:14 <janina> agenda+ [New on TR](http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html)
12:19:16 <janina> agenda+ [CSS Update (Paul)](https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues)
12:19:19 <janina> agenda+ Actions check-in
12:19:21 <janina> agenda+ Other business
12:19:24 <janina> agenda+ Be done
12:19:30 <janina> zakim, clear agenda
12:19:30 <Zakim> agenda cleared
12:20:45 <janina> agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
12:20:45 <janina> agenda+ TPAC 2024 Planning
12:20:45 <janina> agenda+ Task Force & Deliverables Updates
12:20:45 <janina> agenda+ New Charters Review <https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22>
12:20:48 <janina> agenda+ HR A11y Review Comment Tracker <https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review>
12:20:51 <janina> agenda+ Explicit Review Requests <https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues>
12:20:53 <janina> agenda+ new on TR <http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html>
12:20:56 <janina> agenda+ CSS Update (Paul) <https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues>
12:20:58 <janina> agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) <https://github.com/issues/assigned>
12:21:01 <janina> agenda+ Other Business
12:21:03 <janina> agenda+ be done
12:34:10 <janina>  agenda?
13:07:54 <kirkwood> kirkwood has joined #APA
13:28:17 <roy__> roy__ has joined #apa
13:53:08 <janina> regrets: Jennifer Strickland, Alisa_Smith
13:55:13 <janina> present+
13:55:17 <janina> agenda?
13:59:57 <gautierchomel> gautierchomel has joined #apa
14:00:10 <janina> zakim, clear agenda
14:00:10 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:00:14 <janina> agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
14:00:14 <janina> agenda+ TPAC 2024 Planning
14:00:14 <janina> agenda+ Interim update on WCAG2ICT reivew
14:00:14 <janina> agenda+ EPUB Fixed Layout
14:00:14 <janina> agenda+ Task Force &&Deliverables Updates
14:00:17 <janina> agenda+ [New Charters Review](https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22)
14:00:20 <janina> agenda+ [HR A11y Review Comment Tracker](https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review)
14:00:23 <janina> agenda+ [Explicit Review Requests](https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues)
14:00:25 <janina> agenda+ [New on TR](http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html)
14:00:28 <janina> agenda+ [CSS Update (Paul)](https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues)
14:00:30 <janina> agenda+ Actions check-in
14:00:33 <janina> agenda+ Other business
14:00:35 <janina> agenda+ Be done
14:02:06 <roy__> agenda?
14:02:19 <Gottfried> Gottfried has joined #apa
14:02:42 <janina>  zakim, drop item 6, 7, 8, 9
14:02:42 <Zakim> I don't understand 'drop item 6, 7, 8, 9', janina
14:02:55 <janina>  zakim, drop item 6,7,8,9
14:02:55 <Zakim> I don't understand 'drop item 6,7,8,9', janina
14:03:25 <janina>  zakim, drop item 6 7 8 9
14:03:25 <Zakim> I don't understand 'drop item 6 7 8 9', janina
14:03:34 <roy__> zakim, drop item 6
14:03:34 <Zakim> agendum 6, [New Charters Review](https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22), dropped
14:03:34 <janina> zakim, drop item 6
14:03:36 <Zakim> agendum 6, [New Charters Review](https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22), dropped
14:03:41 <janina> zakim, drop item 7
14:03:43 <Zakim> agendum 7, [HR A11y Review Comment Tracker](https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review), dropped
14:03:46 <janina> zakim, drop item 8
14:03:46 <Zakim> agendum 8, [Explicit Review Requests](https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues), dropped
14:03:51 <janina> zakim, drop item 9
14:03:51 <Zakim> agendum 9, [New on TR](http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html), dropped
14:04:13 <roy__> agenda?
14:04:27 <Gottfried> present+
14:05:07 <Gottfried> scribe: Gottfried
14:05:13 <Roy> present+
14:05:16 <gautierchomel> present+
14:05:43 <Gottfried> zakim, open item 1
14:05:43 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from janina]
14:06:35 <NehaJ> NehaJ has joined #apa
14:06:55 <NehaJ> present+
14:09:26 <Gottfried> discussion on joining the #apa channel on https://webirc.w3.org/#/connect
14:09:52 <Gottfried2> Gottfried2 has joined #apa
14:10:00 <Angela> Angela has joined #apa
14:10:20 <PaulG> PaulG has joined #apa
14:10:28 <PaulG> present+
14:11:27 <Gottfried> Round of introduction
14:11:34 <Gottfried> s/introduction/introductions
14:12:44 <janina> zakim, who's here?
14:12:44 <Zakim> Present: janina, Gottfried, Roy, gautierchomel, NehaJ, PaulG
14:12:46 <Zakim> On IRC I see PaulG, Angela, Gottfried2, NehaJ, Gottfried, gautierchomel, Roy, kirkwood, RRSAgent, Zakim, janina, bkardell_, gb, jcraig, Rachael, slightlyoff, cwilso, tink,
14:12:46 <Zakim> ... agendabot, ada
14:16:57 <Gottfried> Angela: Background in education and accessibility. Transitioned from education to siteimprove. Joined EA wg in Dec, but now discontinued. Disability advocate. Also on LinkedIn.
14:17:22 <Gottfried> ... Living accessibility every day.
14:17:44 <janina> present+
14:17:49 <Angela> present+
14:18:01 <Roy> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:18:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/17-apa-minutes.html Roy
14:18:11 <Gottfried> https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-angela-young/
14:18:50 <Gottfried> zakim, next item
14:18:50 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- TPAC 2024 Planning -- taken up [from janina]
14:19:26 <Gottfried> janina: A lot of meetings are scheduled - more to come.
14:19:27 <Gottfried> https://www.w3.org/news-events/w3c-tpac/
14:19:42 <Gottfried> ... Request this week: Propose breakouts
14:20:04 <Gottfried> ... If you propose a break-out, please copy me and Matthew
14:20:31 <Gottfried> zakim, next item
14:20:31 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Interim update on WCAG2ICT reivew -- taken up [from janina]
14:21:17 <Gottfried> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wcag2ict/
14:21:20 <NehaJ> NehaJ has joined #apa
14:21:38 <NehaJ> present+
14:21:53 <Roy> https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues/88
14:22:21 <Roy> https://www.w3.org/TR/wcag2ict-22/
14:22:22 <Gottfried> Note: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wcag2ict/ is the old one.  The new one is at https://w3c.github.io/wcag2ict/
14:23:47 <Gottfried> NehaJ: My team is reviewing this currently.
14:23:52 <Gottfried> janina: And Dr. Keith, and Matthew.
14:24:52 <Gottfried> This document originally was created on the request of the US Access Board, and also by the European Commission.
14:25:26 <Gottfried> ... Group working on it has almost finished. Now requesting review.
14:26:36 <Gottfried> Gottfried: Important piece for the next version of EN 301 549 v4.1.1. Please add me to the reviewing group.
14:26:48 <Gottfried> NehaJ: I will add you to the Google doc.
14:27:12 <Gottfried> zakim, next item
14:27:12 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- EPUB Fixed Layout -- taken up [from janina]
14:28:10 <Gottfried> janina: Note track document - no formal review process
14:28:28 <Gottfried> https://www.w3.org/TR/epub-fxl-a11y/
14:28:36 <Gottfried> janina: Concerns about accessibility
14:29:28 <Gottfried> janina: A fixed layout EPUB doc will not achieve the level of accessibility as in a regular EPUB doc.
14:29:39 <gautierchomel> q+
14:30:17 <Gottfried> janina: Calling it "accessibility" (title) is not useful.
14:30:52 <janina> q?
14:30:53 <Gottfried> janina: APA can create a draft comment expressing these concerns.
14:31:12 <janina> q+
14:31:22 <janina> ack g
14:31:25 <janina> ack j
14:31:55 <Gottfried> gautierchomel: I participated in the writing of this document.
14:32:21 <Angela> Angela has joined #apa
14:32:41 <Gottfried> gautierchomel: First XML, then HTML, then HTML5. Publishing industry now part of W3C.
14:32:55 <Gottfried> ... EPUB3 is the gold standard for accessible ebooks.
14:33:18 <janina> q?
14:33:24 <Gottfried> ... There is a need in the publishing industry for fixed layout.
14:34:14 <Gottfried> ... Print equivalents, academic contexts
14:35:07 <Gottfried> ... Need for more resilient version of fixed layout.
14:35:17 <Gottfried> ... Problem: You cannot reflow text.
14:35:44 <Gottfried> ... Like in PDF.
14:36:49 <Dr_Keith> Dr_Keith has joined #apa
14:37:21 <Gottfried> Two perspectives: (1) Screenreader receives reflowable content. (2) Changes on visual layout possible??
14:37:50 <Gottfried> ... Screenreader users were not missing anything.
14:38:07 <PaulG> q+
14:38:11 <janina> q?
14:38:24 <janina> ack p
14:38:25 <Gottfried> ... Better semantics than PDF. Same issues with visual layout as PDF.
14:38:58 <Gottfried> PaulG: PDF allows for programmatic reading order. But this document does not address author-controlled reading order.
14:39:31 <janina> q?
14:39:42 <Gottfried> ... Not convinced that this is better than PDF.  PDF would handle reading order.
14:40:04 <Gottfried> ... PDFs have a feature "touchup reading order".
14:40:24 <Gottfried> gautierchomel: Reading order is included in this document.
14:40:49 <Gottfried> https://www.w3.org/TR/epub-fxl-a11y/#reading-order
14:41:30 <Dr_Keith> present+
14:42:14 <Gottfried> PaulG: I don't see a recommendation about author-controlled reading order here.
14:42:46 <Gottfried> ... How does this doc recommend what to do about reading order. I cannot find this here.  Only problems are stated.
14:43:26 <Gottfried> gautierchomel: There is no "programmatic reading order" in EPUB.
14:44:08 <Gottfried> PaulG: If fixed layout breaks the default order of elements in how they are presented visually, there should be a way to define the reading order.
14:44:19 <Gottfried> janina: The question is what does this doc achieve.
14:44:37 <Gottfried> PaulG: No recommendation on what to do in these problematic cases.
14:45:18 <Gottfried> ... We should have the technology of programmatic reading order. What does EPUB bring onto the table here?
14:46:05 <Gottfried> gautierchomel: EPUB 3.3 has this.
14:47:00 <Gottfried> s/EPUB 3.3 has this/Not a problem in EPUB since it is HTML5.
14:47:28 <Gottfried> janina: There is no guidance as to how to achieve accessibility how we expect it.
14:47:36 <Gottfried> ... Change title to "Accessibility challenges"?
14:48:07 <Gottfried> ... Or create a spec with normative requirements.
14:48:44 <Gottfried> ... Since it is a note, there are no recommendations, only issues. It is an exploratory document. But call it different.
14:49:19 <gautierchomel> q+
14:49:26 <Gottfried> ... There is a way to have fixed layout and have reflow - but different topic.
14:49:26 <janina> q?
14:50:24 <Gottfried> PaulG: If EPUB 3.3 has a technical solution of defining a reading order, this doc needs to hint at this solution.
14:50:43 <gautierchomel> there an attached techniques document: https://w3c.github.io/epub-specs/epub33/fxl-a11y-tech/
14:50:45 <NehaJ> NehaJ has joined #apa
14:51:27 <Gottfried> PaulG: Doc is readable, but not necessarily helping to make docs more accessible.
14:51:52 <Gottfried> ... The techniques document has useful content here.
14:52:07 <Gottfried> zakim, next item
14:52:07 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Gottfried
14:52:13 <Gottfried> q?
14:52:46 <Gottfried> janina: We need to discuss this further in APA.
14:53:14 <Gottfried> q- gautierchomel
14:53:20 <Gottfried> zakim, next item
14:53:20 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Task Force &&Deliverables Updates -- taken up [from janina]
14:53:28 <Gottfried> zakim, close this item
14:53:28 <Zakim> agendum 5 closed
14:53:29 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:53:29 <Zakim> 10. [CSS Update (Paul)](https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues) [from janina]
14:53:32 <PaulG> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6517
14:53:33 <Gottfried> zakim, open next item
14:53:33 <Zakim> agendum 10 -- [CSS Update (Paul)](https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues) -- taken up [from janina]
14:54:05 <Gottfried> PaulG: CSS Media Queries Level 5. Win for user preferences.
14:54:56 <Gottfried> zakim, next item
14:54:56 <Zakim> agendum 11 -- Actions check-in -- taken up [from janina]
14:55:02 <Gottfried> zakim, close this item
14:55:02 <Zakim> agendum 11 closed
14:55:03 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:55:03 <Zakim> 12. Other business [from janina]
14:55:05 <Gottfried> zakim, next item
14:55:06 <Zakim> agendum 12 -- Other business -- taken up [from janina]
14:55:15 <Gottfried> janina: Meeting adjourned
14:55:39 <Gottfried> zakim, bye
14:55:39 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been janina, Gottfried, Roy, gautierchomel, NehaJ, PaulG, Angela, Dr_Keith
14:55:39 <Zakim> Zakim has left #apa
14:55:44 <NehaJ> NehaJ has left #apa
14:55:53 <Roy> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:55:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/07/17-apa-minutes.html Roy
15:14:27 <kirkwood> kirkwood has joined #APA
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17:05:02 <kirkwood> kirkwood has joined #APA
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19:12:46 <janina> rrsagent, bye
19:12:46 <RRSAgent> I see no action items