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14:50:40 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/06/27-pcg-a11y-irc
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14:50:58 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, this will be pcg-a11y
14:50:58 <Zakim> ok, AvneeshSingh
14:51:17 <AvneeshSingh> present+
14:51:20 <AvneeshSingh> chair: AvneeshSingh
14:51:59 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Next steps for Issue #280: Do we want to display Reason why the publication does not claim to meet the standards
14:52:16 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ All the accessibility metadata displayed are the claims made by the publisher. How should we convey this fact in our guide.
14:52:29 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Review of further progress in techniques documents.
14:52:45 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Any other business.
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15:01:08 <gpellegrino> present+
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15:05:18 <CharlesL2> CharlesL2 has joined #pcg-a11y
15:05:29 <CharlesL2> present+
15:05:32 <CharlesL2> scribe+
15:05:42 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:05:43 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Next steps for Issue #280: Do we want to display Reason why the publication does not claim to meet the standards -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
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15:06:03 <AvneeshSingh> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/issues/280
15:06:18 <CharlesL2> Do we want to display Reason why the publication does not claim to meet the standards]
15:06:28 <Madeleine> present+
15:06:38 <CharlesL2> Avneesh: some publishers may not want this type of information displayed.
15:07:17 <CharlesL2> ... Editors call, Gautier suggested separate Conformance Section and Legal Discloser section which could be optional.
15:07:53 <CharlesL2> ... Gregorio suggested FAP which is meeting on July 5 to ask them about this topic.
15:08:42 <gpellegrino> q+
15:08:50 <CharlesL2> George: this exemption information is not a conformance claim, we put it there inadvertently. Current draft 3 examples of conformance and removed the example of company claiming a hardship claim.
15:09:08 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:09:17 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:09:38 <CharlesL2> gpellegrino: I agree, and lets way for legal, and when we get input we can improve it.
15:10:08 <Hadrien> q+
15:10:15 <CharlesL2> ..., statement ONIX 09 = inaccessible or known accessibility issues.
15:10:26 <CharlesL2> ..., where do we place this information?
15:10:53 <CharlesL2> George: if 09 is present is there the possibility the publisher could have put in other a11y features?
15:11:05 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:11:15 <CharlesL2> ... or a valid onix means those other features would not be present.
15:11:24 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
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15:12:04 <rickj> present+
15:12:35 <CharlesL2> Hadrien: exemptions - I should have access to this information. if a publication is not accessible I may want to file a report to the regulator. having this information could influence my decision.  I agree it doesn't need to be next to other metadata
15:12:39 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:13:23 <CharlesL2> George, is 09 same as accessibilityFeatures = none.
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15:13:34 <Hadrien> q+ for code 09 and none in schema.org
15:13:55 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:13:57 <Zakim> Hadrien, you wanted to discuss code 09 and none in schema.org
15:13:58 <CharlesL2> ..., is accessmodesufficient textual is a property not a feature.
15:14:53 <CharlesL2> Hadrien: I haven't see that type of information. Publisher felt confident enough to add to summary but not in conformance or not accessible.  Could change, and this was a large set of data I reviewed.
15:14:59 <rickj> Q+
15:15:16 <AvneeshSingh> ack ric
15:15:19 <gpellegrino> q+
15:15:20 <CharlesL2> ... distributors / aggregators for small publishers.
15:15:44 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:15:45 <CharlesL2> rickj: I agree we don't see any publishers not saying they are inaccessible.  but do see some information in the Summary.
15:16:22 <CharlesL2> gpellegrino: digital comic books of images, accessibility is challenging, Have seem some PDFs with that code for inaccessible.
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15:16:45 <gpellegrino> q+
15:16:58 <CharlesL2> AvneeshSingh: do we need to worry about it? not interpret 09 at this time for the first draft. if publishers want it we could include it.
15:17:02 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:18:18 <gautierchomel> present+
15:18:24 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:18:24 <CharlesL2> gpellegrino: we can skip code 09 comic book for example 09 with our guidelines we will end up with "Unknown" for all required fields.  since 09 can add free text can include in the accessiblitySummary section. from the free text in 09 as well as the accessibilitySummary.
15:18:32 <CharlesL2> Charles: works for me.
15:19:27 <Hadrien> q+
15:20:10 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:20:32 <CharlesL2> AvneeshSingh: so this is the ONIX techniques : AccessibilitySummary (addendup, summary and free text from 09)
15:20:50 <CharlesL2> Hadrien: I have never seen anything useful in those text fields.
15:21:21 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:21:26 <CharlesL2> AvneeshSingh: lets include it in first draft.  this is a compromised instead of leaving it out 09 completely.  if they start using it a lot we can revise this.
15:21:28 <rickj> +1
15:21:48 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:21:48 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- All the accessibility metadata displayed are the claims made by the publisher. How should we convey this fact in our guide. -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
15:23:18 <CharlesL2> gpellegrino: should we add "claim" to each item, but everything in metadata is a claim, even the title, subtitle and all a11y metadata, they could claim mathML but there is none in the file itself (copy/paste)
15:23:33 <gautierchomel> q+
15:23:42 <CharlesL2> ... maybe we can add a note that this metadata is from the publisher and in all claims made by them.
15:23:42 <AvneeshSingh> ack gaut
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15:24:08 <rickj0> q+
15:24:20 <CharlesL2> gautierchomel: difference with conformance, claiming could be from a 3rd party certifier.
15:24:37 <CharlesL2> ... or from a service provider / aggregator etc.
15:24:53 <gpellegrino> q+
15:24:55 <CharlesL2> ... we don't need to specify claim.
15:25:00 <CharlesL2> rickj
15:25:01 <AvneeshSingh> ack irck
15:25:42 <AvneeshSingh> ack rick
15:25:58 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:25:58 <CharlesL2> rickj: we add a badge "Accessibility claims" for each title with a11y metadata.
15:26:35 <rickj> q+
15:26:45 <CharlesL2> gpellegrino: I like Rick's approach that they whole section is claims made by the publisher.  this book claims to be accepted conformance etc.
15:26:51 <AvneeshSingh> ack rick
15:27:24 <CharlesL2> rickj: we like the short wording is made localization much easier in 37 languages they support. we are using compact statement but if you hover over it shows the full statement.
15:27:45 <CharlesL2> AvneeshSingh: what about screen readers?
15:27:51 <gautierchomel> q+
15:28:00 <gautierchomel> q-
15:28:00 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:28:09 <CharlesL2> rickj: this is just internal currently but yet we will do that testing.
15:28:21 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:28:33 <CharlesL2> AvneeshSingh: Accessibility Claims then simplify.
15:29:49 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:30:04 <CharlesL2> gautierchomel: Claim translated in french doesn't work but "statement" does work well. "Accessibility Decoration" good for French / Italy
15:30:18 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:30:18 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Review of further progress in techniques documents. -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
15:30:40 <CharlesL2> AvneeshSingh: Onix / EPUB
15:30:53 <AvneeshSingh> https://w3c.github.io/publ-a11y/UX-Guide-Metadata/draft/techniques/onix-metadata/index.html
15:31:14 <CharlesL2> gpellegrino: nothing to update we have a PR on conformance but we wanted to wait for the decision about conformance / legal.
15:31:54 <CharlesL2> ... Waiting for Chris to finalize the draft and then we can finalize the PR for ONIX. most of the work has been done.
15:32:06 <AvneeshSingh> https://w3c.github.io/publ-a11y/UX-Guide-Metadata/draft/techniques/epub-metadata/index.html
15:33:02 <CharlesL2> Charles: holding pattern waiting for ONIX to finalize Conformance / Legal sections.
15:33:08 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:33:08 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Any other business. -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
15:33:27 <CharlesL2> George: guidance from editors for Principals doc.
15:34:25 <AvneeshSingh> rrsagent, make minutes
15:34:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/27-pcg-a11y-minutes.html AvneeshSingh
15:34:36 <AvneeshSingh> rrsagent, make logs public
15:36:31 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, leave
15:36:31 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been AvneeshSingh, gpellegrino, CharlesL, Madeleine, rickj, gautierchomel
15:36:31 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pcg-a11y