14:01:04 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pwe
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14:01:13 <dbooth> dbooth has joined #pwe
14:01:17 <tzviya> present+
14:01:22 <dbooth> rrsagent, pointer?
14:01:22 <RRSAgent> See https://www.w3.org/2024/06/25-pwe-irc#T14-01-22
14:01:38 <tzviya> Meeting: PWE
14:01:41 <dbooth> rrsagent, make logs public
14:01:49 <dbooth> present+
14:01:49 <tzviya> Date: 2024-06-25
14:01:51 <wendyreid> present+
14:02:01 <tzviya> Chairs: Tzviya, Wendy
14:02:07 <JenStrickland> JenStrickland has joined #pwe
14:02:19 <tzviya> regrets+ Chris
14:02:19 <JenStrickland> present+
14:02:39 <wendyreid> scribe+
14:03:14 <wendyreid> tzviya: We were going to talk about the awards update and TPAC planning
14:03:32 <dbooth> Topic: Awards
14:03:45 <dbooth> elena: Sheila worked out categories
14:04:00 <wendyreid> elenalape: Sheila has worked out and drafted some categories, we almost have that finalized
14:04:02 <dbooth> ... almost finalized
14:04:11 <wendyreid> ... I reached out to Seth and Alex about budget and scheduling
14:04:14 <dbooth> ... Alex is scheduling a ceremonay at TPAC
14:04:17 <wendyreid> ... Tzviya says we have a jury
14:04:22 <sheila> sheila has joined #pwe
14:04:37 <dbooth> ... Then it will be about getting the nomination done.
14:04:38 <wendyreid> ... once we have an update from Sheila, it will be down to creating the form and getting the nominations
14:05:30 <dbooth> sheila: We met, talked through options.  Talked about categories vs criteria.  Decided on categories because it will allow people to think ouotside the box, and it will provide more direction, this being our first tim.
14:05:45 <dbooth> ... But not typical awards, but recognize those who are not commonly recognis=zed.
14:05:53 <dbooth> ... and get arroudn barriers of engagement.
14:06:11 <elenalape> DEI Champion Award
14:06:11 <elenalape> Web Advocate Award
14:06:11 <elenalape> Standards Excellence Award
14:06:11 <elenalape> Leading by Example Award
14:06:12 <elenalape> Collaboration & Teamwork Award
14:06:29 <dbooth> sheila: 5 sounded like a good number, but wanted more also.
14:06:43 <dbooth> ... eg how people engage in tieir work.
14:06:52 <dbooth> ... Planning on descriptions of each.
14:07:05 <dbooth> ... DEI champions and modeles
14:07:16 <dbooth> ... Web advocate advocates for open web.
14:07:28 <dbooth> ... Stds is for quality work.
14:08:00 <dbooth> ... Leading by example: That's modeling good leadership, which wwe can describe..  Not just assertiveness, but kind, thoughtful, sometimes quiet.
14:08:24 <dbooth> ... Then collab teamwork.  'Team player" sounds patronizing.  But someone who exemplifiees collab work.
14:08:40 <JenStrickland> I offer adding "sponsorship" to the leading by example description as it evolves. People who lift up others is such a welcome characteristic.
14:08:45 <dbooth> ...  open to feedback.
14:08:46 <dbooth> q+
14:08:58 <elenalape> q+
14:09:03 <tzviya> q+ JenStrickland
14:09:06 <tzviya> ack dbooth
14:09:26 <tzviya> ack elenalape
14:09:32 <wendyreid> dbooth: I'm guessing that would only push back on categories, but I won't, I missed the call, I think the awards will be good
14:09:55 <tzviya> ack JenStrickland
14:10:00 <dbooth> elena: First time doing this at W3C.  We can always do it differently next year.
14:10:00 <sheila> q+
14:10:35 <dbooth> jen: Great leader sponsors other, lifts others up.  Being the ladder to opportunity, not bogarting the limelight and credit.
14:11:33 <elenalape> welcome!!
14:11:33 <dbooth> christos: Introduction.  Based in Berlin, but Greek.  Here after convo w Elena.  Found common interest, here to learn and help.
14:12:25 <tzviya> ack sheila
14:12:40 <dbooth> sheila: Welcome.  And agree w the leadership comment.
14:12:44 <christos> christos has joined #pwe
14:13:10 <dbooth> ... Also, we discussed in an ideal world, wonce we've established the award's vision, would be good to share the values.
14:13:25 <tzviya> s/wonce/once
14:13:28 <dbooth> ... Proposing that for future vision.
14:13:52 <dbooth> tzviya: Jury?
14:14:32 <dbooth> elena: Just had convo about jury.  Does not have to be anonymous.  The anon part is letting them rank the candidate, and us not getitng involved, unless they need a backup member.
14:15:10 <tzviya> An Qi Li, Jeffrey Yaskin, Chuck Adams
14:15:24 <dbooth> tzviya: We have Ang____, Jeffry Askin, Chuck Adams.  And Wendy and I are avaailable as backup.
14:15:34 <sheila> s/once we've established the award's vision, would be good to share the values/once we've established a set of values for W3C, would be great to tie each of the awards to each of the values
14:15:37 <tzviya> s/ Ang____/An Qi Li
14:15:50 <elenalape> q+
14:15:58 <tzviya> s/Jeffry Askin/ Jeffrey Yasskin
14:16:01 <tzviya> ack elenalape
14:16:49 <dbooth> elena: Next step: Design jury guidelines.  Have criteria, then a score for each, so that every potentialnominee gets a compound score of several criteria.
14:16:58 <dbooth> ... Another option is to pick the best.
14:17:10 <dbooth> ... Another is to ask the jury to make thier own criteria.
14:17:19 <dbooth> q+
14:17:27 <tzviya> ack dbooth
14:17:46 <wendyreid> dbooth: The jury is going to decide what they decide, I don't think they need to be instructed
14:17:50 <JenStrickland> q+
14:17:54 <wendyreid> ack JenStrickland
14:18:24 <dbooth> jen: Might be easy to have a five-step scale.  Or is it based on number of nominations?
14:18:43 <tzviya> q+ to talk about process for other things
14:18:50 <dbooth> elena: Up to the jury.   When we asked for budget, we said 2-3 winners per category.
14:19:05 <dbooth> ... Up to them to decide best vs most submissions.
14:19:15 <dbooth> ... But may have "unsung hero"
14:19:39 <dbooth> jen: At w3c we have people who hae been here forever, with networks.
14:20:10 <wendyreid> q+
14:20:13 <elenalape> q+
14:20:13 <dbooth> ... Hard when you're new.  Perhaps give them 5 point charscteristics, then number of nominations.  Want to find a way to make it very fair.
14:20:19 <dbooth> ... For noobs.
14:20:19 <sheila> q+
14:20:32 <dbooth> ... Could really make somoene feel appreciated.
14:20:55 <dbooth> ... That helps me stick it out whne it's hard.
14:20:58 <tzviya> ack me
14:20:58 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to talk about process for other things
14:21:44 <tzviya> ack wendyreid
14:21:48 <dbooth> tzviya: There have been other things wheerewe've had to figure out criteria.  Not completely objective, but have to figure out the balance.  One thing to consider: maybe "best new voice" or "rookie of the year"
14:22:23 <dbooth> wendy: Looking back at DEI cholarships, we didn't have a 5-pt scale.  Think it's ok for them to figure out their own system.
14:22:35 <dbooth> ... But whever you choose, there should be a reason.
14:22:43 <dbooth> q+
14:22:56 <dbooth> ... we can give that instruction to the jury.
14:23:11 <tzviya> ack elenalape
14:23:32 <dbooth> elena: Will still depend on the number of nominations w receive.
14:23:58 <dbooth> ... Might not get nomination at all if we don't promote it!  Letting the jury figure it out is the right approach, in my opinon.
14:24:22 <dbooth> ... If next year we need instructions, we'll ldo them.
14:24:24 <tzviya> ack sheila
14:25:09 <dbooth> sheila: Agree.  Also we can rec to the jury that we can justify decisions as asked.  And tell them they can consider the number of nominations, but not only.  Could be a tie breaker.
14:25:17 <tzviya> ack dbooth
14:26:12 <dbooth> dbooth: Being specific aobut the recipient's uinique contribution when giving the award makes it the most special.
14:26:23 <dbooth> tzviya: When is call for nominations?
14:26:58 <dbooth> elena: Need to discuss w comm team.  Could be as soon as July.  A month will be enough.
14:27:25 <dbooth> Topic: TPAC Meeting
14:27:47 <dbooth> tzviya: Have a break-out session?  We had a few ideas, but not agenda or topics.
14:28:09 <dbooth> .. Mabye support discussion.  Women of W3C?  Other format?
14:28:16 <dbooth> ... Other ideas?
14:28:33 <JenStrickland> q+
14:28:44 <dbooth> ... Or no meet at all?  Lots of time competiion on wednesday.
14:28:50 <tzviya> ack JenStrickland
14:29:09 <dbooth> jen: Would be lovely for team to meet.  PWE group has a nice vibe.  We care about making positive work env!
14:29:24 <dbooth> ... Worked through a lot fo speed bumps.
14:29:34 <elenalape> q+
14:29:41 <tzviya> ack elenalape
14:29:42 <dbooth> I wish I could be there, but won't be at TPAC.
14:30:05 <dbooth> elena:  At the last one we just had lunch.  It's a niche interest.
14:30:22 <dbooth> ... Maybe just spend a lunch break together.
14:30:33 <dbooth> tzviya: I won't be at TPAC.  Sheila won't be.
14:31:12 <JenStrickland> q+
14:31:17 <dbooth> ... Historically we've had sessions that are discussion forum.  Wendy and I discussed toing that again, not to accomplich anything in particular, but mtg of underrepresented group.
14:31:34 <tzviya> ack JenStrickland
14:31:38 <dbooth> ... if people want to take the time, should it be women?  Somethingn else?  Unstructured time?
14:32:31 <dbooth> jen: In TPAC Vancouver ...  Taking up a scholarship and seeing so few people of color was gutting.
14:32:47 <dbooth> ... Can we help excluded people connect?
14:34:11 <dbooth> ... Ata JS conference there was a room that only disallowed abled white men, and my friend was offended that he couldn't go in.  But that was the point: to feel how it feels to be excluded.
14:34:24 <dbooth> ... There's a discussion to be had around it.
14:34:40 <dbooth> ... Don't know that we're mature envough, but could think about it.
14:35:00 <dbooth> ... There are some groups at W3C where I don't go anymore, because of the brogrammers.
14:35:26 <dbooth> ... Maybe good to have a place share stories and gain support.  Food for thought.
14:35:47 <dbooth> tzviya: How to do this in an inclusive way, while still supporting people who need support?
14:36:30 <dbooth> jen: DQ has an empathy lab.  Could be good at W3C where people experience what it' like to be someone from another group.
14:36:46 <dbooth> .. Maybe brainstorm for 2 wks.
14:36:52 <dbooth> q+
14:36:58 <JenStrickland> DQ = Deque
14:37:00 <tzviya> s/DQ/Dequeue
14:37:04 <tzviya> ack db
14:38:01 <dbooth> tzviya: I was talking more about people who are excluded, how to make them feel more included.
14:38:45 <dbooth> ... A few years ago I attempted story telling work at W3C: What inclusiveness means, and what excluiveness is like.  In my experience, the people who are listening are not the ones who need to hear it.
14:39:16 <dbooth> elena: These thins only create echo chambers.  If we want women in tech, it shouldd be tech.
14:39:41 <dbooth> ... Big echo chamber risk: delivering talk to the ones who already know it.  Room atmospheree can be grim.
14:40:03 <dbooth> tzviya: IETF has Syster program.  We can't start that now, its' mentoring but not formal.
14:40:24 <dbooth> ... big sister, little sister kind of.
14:41:11 <dbooth> ... IETF did a survey.   Includes things like region and gender.  Hopefullly a mentoring program could come of it.
14:41:29 <dbooth> .. There is something to be said for support.
14:41:53 <dbooth> ... Discussing inclusiveness in w3c has been awful.  Peple think we do it already, but we don't.
14:41:59 <sheila> q+
14:42:03 <tzviya> ack sheila
14:42:51 <dbooth> sheila: On the fence.  Agree w grimness, and echo chamber risk.  But what about networking or social event for women and gender expansive people?
14:43:04 <dbooth> ... Connect w others who can be part of our prof netowrk?
14:43:23 <dbooth> ... not so much programming, or minority experiences, but audience.
14:43:58 <dbooth> ... No bouncer at the door, but networking event.  That could allow it to still be light hearted and fun and deve meaningful relationship in future.
14:44:16 <dbooth> ... Affinity groups require a lot of care and effort.  W3C isn't there yet.
14:44:32 <dbooth> ... Would be painful for people infolved, on short notice.
14:44:45 <dbooth> ... In short term, create opporunities for rel.
14:45:24 <dbooth> tzviya: Agree.  Affinity groups put burden on.  Let's call this a networking event.
14:45:52 <JenStrickland> q+
14:45:58 <dbooth> elena:  SHould have a good, positive descripion of the event.
14:46:07 <tzviya> ack JenStrickland
14:46:11 <dbooth> +1 to this idea
14:46:38 <dbooth> jen: When non-excluded folks see it, will they raise a rukus, or will they want to come?
14:47:21 <dbooth> ... Need to be careful.  When I say 'Historicaly excluded", ther's a reason; There is blame.  Important to call it out, not sweep it underthe rug.
14:47:42 <dbooth> ... need to be mindful of both.  Find a balance.
14:49:09 <dbooth> I' on linux.  I don't get them  :(   I'm third class.
14:49:19 <dbooth> ADJOURNED
14:49:30 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:49:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/25-pwe-minutes.html dbooth
14:50:22 <dbooth> s/I' on linu/re zoom reactions, I' on linu
14:51:42 <dbooth> Present+ Christos
14:51:52 <dbooth> present+ Elena
14:52:06 <dbooth> present+ Sheila
14:52:36 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:52:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/25-pwe-minutes.html dbooth
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