13:58:51 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-star
13:58:56 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/06/14-rdf-star-irc
13:59:01 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdf-star
14:00:27 <TallTed> TallTed has changed the topic to: RDFstar WG - Semantics TF 2024-06-14 - https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/6d0cd306-0be8-4267-865a-6272cc8d9da4/20240614T100000/
14:00:29 <TallTed> meeting: RDF-star Semantics TF
14:00:31 <TallTed> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/6d0cd306-0be8-4267-865a-6272cc8d9da4/20240614T100000/
14:00:33 <agendabot> clear agenda
14:00:33 <agendabot> agenda+ Discussion on weaker notion of opacity: IRI-opaque triple terms
14:00:33 <TallTed> present+ TallTed, enrico, gkellogg
14:00:35 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:00:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/14-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
14:00:39 <TallTed> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:00:40 <TallTed> s/enrico, gkellogg/enrico/
14:00:41 <TallTed> present+ AndyS, gkellogg, pfps, niklasl
14:01:13 <TallTed> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2024/06/13-rdf-star-minutes.html
14:01:15 <TallTed> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2024/06/20-rdf-star-minutes.html
14:01:55 <gkellogg> present+
14:02:15 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:02:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/14-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
14:02:46 <tl> tl has joined #rdf-star
14:03:10 <TallTed> Zakim, open item 1
14:03:10 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Discussion on weaker notion of opacity: IRI-opaque triple terms -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:03:37 <TallTed> present+ tl, pchampin
14:04:17 <TallTed> subtopic: Introduction to baseline with transparent and IRI-opaque triple terms, and no functionality of annotations
14:05:57 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdf-star
14:06:02 <Souri> present+
14:09:10 <tl> q+
14:10:00 <pchampin> we could avoid the complexity of TEPs in general, and decide that rdf:reifies is the only TEP
14:11:30 <niklasl> niklasl has joined #rdf-star
14:14:13 <AndyS> pchampin - Interesting
14:19:27 <AndyS> The baseline abstract grammar (as of 15:17 today) has one syntactic triple term (i.e. writable). The "transparentTripleTerm | opaqueTripleTerm" has no visible effect. They can be distinguished in well-formed (by usage). And we are at pchampin suggestion.
14:20:41 <pchampin> +1 to nim
14:21:03 <pchampin> two kinds of provenance
14:21:19 <pchampin> s/nim/niklas
14:24:57 <pchampin> AndyS for me the unrestricted abstract syntax implies that concrete syntaxes should be able to distinghishvthe two kinds of triples
14:31:42 <Souri> q+
14:35:54 <pchampin> if rdf:reifies is many-to-many and rdf:annotationof is one-to-many, I don't think that this property chain works
14:36:01 <enrico> ack tl
14:36:07 <enrico> ack souri
14:36:40 <enrico> q+
14:36:43 <niklasl> +1 to souri (same point as Gregg)
14:37:44 <tl> q+
14:37:46 <niklasl> q+
14:41:16 <enrico> ack enrico
14:42:23 <pchampin> n-triples !
14:42:46 <pchampin> and turtle can use raw triple terms
14:42:58 <pchampin> that's not forbidden
14:43:08 <niklasl> exactly
14:43:41 <enrico> ack tl
14:45:42 <enrico> ack niklasl
14:47:48 <pchampin> q+
14:53:04 <Souri> Never bet on what users will NOT do! :-)
14:53:06 <niklasl> +1 to 100% of what pchampin said
14:53:22 <pchampin> +1 Souri
14:53:27 <niklasl> +1 to Souri too
14:53:27 <pchampin> bye
14:54:50 <tl> q+
14:54:50 <Souri> If we go with two distinct properties (instead of going with two types of tripleTerms) -- rdf:annotationOf and rdf:reifies -- can we have the same tripleTerm used with two reifiers? => :r1 rdf:annotationOf <<( :bob :likes :alice }>> . :r2 rdf:reifies <<( :bob  :likes :alice )>> . We can is my guess.
14:55:28 <tl> @tallted will do, thanks for your agreement!
14:56:08 <tl> q+
14:56:28 <gkellogg> ack pchampin
14:56:33 <gkellogg> ack tl
14:59:11 <niklasl> q+
15:00:26 <tl> https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-031-47240-4_15
15:00:45 <tl> Iglesias 2023 Comparison of Knowledge Graph Representations for Consumer Scenarios
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15:16:50 <Souri> :r1 rdf:annotationOf <<| :bob :knows "alice |>> .
15:18:47 <Souri> s/"alice/:alice/
15:21:12 <AndyS> https://github.com/dstl/IES4
15:22:43 <niklasl> :r1 rdf:subject <bob-at-21> . <bob-at-21> prov:specializationOf :bob .
15:23:36 <Souri> :r1.subject :age 21 . :r1.object :age 18 .
15:23:42 <niklasl> .. terribly, decicdedly exdurant.
15:25:31 <niklasl> Btw, age is generally a very bad predicate (it locks the subject interpretation to an entity in a moment of time).
15:26:46 <Souri> :r1=>subject :age 21 . :r1=>object :age 18 .
15:27:05 <niklasl> Different interpretations of :honoraryTitle <resource> . and that resource used as a relationship to a country....
15:27:45 <gkellogg> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:27:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/14-rdf-star-minutes.html gkellogg
15:28:10 <gkellogg> zakim, end meeting
15:28:10 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been TallTed, enrico, gkellogg, AndyS, pfps, niklasl, tl, pchampin, Souri
15:28:12 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:28:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/14-rdf-star-minutes.html Zakim
15:28:19 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, gkellogg; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
15:28:20 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdf-star
15:28:23 <gkellogg> rrsagent, bye
15:28:23 <RRSAgent> I see no action items