IRC log of maturity on 2024-06-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:52:58 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/06/12-maturity-irc
14:53:03 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:53:04 [Zakim]
please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Fazio
14:53:29 [Fazio]
meeting: Maturity Model
14:53:50 [Fazio]
chair: Fazio
14:53:56 [Fazio]
present+
14:59:21 [Mark_Miller]
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14:59:37 [Fazio]
Agenda+ New Business
14:59:37 [Fazio]
Agenda+ Github Issue #154 Section 3.3.1: can a measure of support effectiveness be included?
14:59:37 [Fazio]
Agenda+ Github Issues 43, 78, 85, 102, 103, 104 (Usability doc feedback) – Look at Procurement Dimension
14:59:37 [Fazio]
Agenda+ Maturity Model Scoring Subgroup Update
14:59:37 [gb]
/issues/154 -> #154
14:59:39 [Fazio]
Agenda+ Github #156 Issue Section 3.5: proof points should consider whether people with disabilities actually were included in the workforce as a result of the efforts made.
14:59:39 [gb]
/issues/156 -> #156
14:59:42 [NehaJ]
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15:01:48 [CharlesL]
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15:02:04 [CharlesL]
present+
15:02:23 [SusiPallero]
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15:03:58 [NehaJ]
present+
15:04:34 [jkline]
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15:04:41 [jkline]
present+
15:04:52 [jkline]
Still looking for the webinar link
15:06:14 [CharlesL]
scribe+
15:06:21 [CharlesL]
zakim, next item
15:06:21 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- New Business -- taken up [from Fazio]
15:06:25 [SusiPallero]
Present+
15:07:03 [CharlesL]
zakim, close item 1
15:07:03 [Zakim]
agendum 1, New Business, closed
15:07:05 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:07:05 [Zakim]
2. Github Issue #154 Section 3.3.1: can a measure of support effectiveness be included? [from Fazio]
15:07:05 [gb]
/issues/154 -> #154
15:07:11 [CharlesL]
zakim, next item
15:07:11 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Github Issue #154 Section 3.3.1: can a measure of support effectiveness be included? -- taken up [from Fazio]
15:09:19 [CharlesL]
Fazio: see my email this morning regarding: I’ve reviewed the Google doc that we are updating the Editor’s draft with to see if Jason’s request about including monitoring effectiveness has been addressed. It appears every dimension has at least one stage where effectiveness is somehow monitored. I’ve pasted the findings below. 
15:11:30 [CharlesL]
..., Communications: The level is in Optimize when proof points demonstrate that::authoring, editing, and reviewing processes, procedures, and tools are in place, used consistently, and are regularly evaluated and refined to ensure that all internal and external communications are fully accessible communications training relevant to each individual’s position is required, measured, and monitored for improvement.
15:12:07 [CharlesL]
... Jason's issues was regarding Support: The level is in Optimize when proof points demonstrate that:fully trained customer support staff able to support users' accessibility questionsmultiple ways to communicate with technical support that meets the needs of customers with disabilities are provided ICT accessibility support is available for all internally and externally used ICTtraining programs are in place for ICT support staff,
15:12:07 [CharlesL]
and staff has been trainedcontinuous improvement plans are ongoing accessibility support training relevant to each individual’s position is required, measured, and monitored for improvement.
15:13:42 [CharlesL]
Jeff: Its a little vague in my opinion, must have a proof point
15:14:51 [CharlesL]
Fazio: there are proofpoints for Support: written policy on requesting and providing employee ICT-related accommodations
15:14:51 [CharlesL]
publicly available (and accessible) web accessibility statement with pointers to support mechanismssupport mechanisms are accessible
15:14:51 [CharlesL]
help topics or FAQs that are specific to accessibility.
15:14:51 [CharlesL]
training for customer support agents (or internal ICT support staff) in accessibility, assistive technology, and disability etiquette and awareness
15:14:53 [CharlesL]
established disability-focused employee resource groups (ERG) with executive sponsorship
15:14:53 [CharlesL]
validation process in place to manage accessibility feedback
15:14:56 [CharlesL]
accessibility feedback is incorporated to facilitate continuous improvement of identified ICT
15:14:57 [CharlesL]
defined and documented methods to evaluate the effectiveness of accessibility support, actively in use. 
15:15:00 [SusiPallero]
q+
15:15:27 [Mark_Miller]
present+
15:15:47 [CharlesL]
... could ask Jason if this satisfy your reqest, or do we continue working on this?
15:15:50 [CharlesL]
ack SusiPallero
15:15:52 [Dr_Keith2]
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15:16:05 [Dr_Keith2]
present+
15:16:26 [Dr_Keith2]
q?
15:16:31 [CharlesL]
SusiPallero: We need to find an objective way for measuring, but it must be measurable and repeatable.
15:17:05 [CharlesL]
... maybe I could study this objective structures that exist to measure effectiveness to see if it works for what we have.
15:18:26 [Mark_Miller]
Q+
15:18:29 [CharlesL]
Dr_Keith2: For clarity, there are 2 directions. Regarding monitoring / measuring for optimization, we could write that as a proof point in each section.
15:19:18 [CharlesL]
... evaluating each of the steps, or evaluating your progress. include part of definition of term of optimized or we are tracking our progress and have a way to monitor that.
15:20:08 [CharlesL]
Fazio: Training is in all of the dimensions. Jason's question that support we need metrics, people with disabilities be part of the process. continuously improve it. etc.
15:20:53 [CharlesL]
... this would be good for all dimensions. We should focus on this one issue, then we can apply to other dimensions.
15:21:46 [CharlesL]
... In optimized proof point: continuous improvement plans ongoing, and a11y training & monitored for improvement.
15:24:05 [CharlesL]
Jeff: I sent out an email last week after meeting outlining having a proof point lang. to be def. setting goals and measuring progress and part of a project plan / training line item in each dimension. I don't thing adding a proof point in optimized for monitoring is helpful. Need a line item and we can start with support. call the proof points that we remove ambiguous.
15:24:28 [CharlesL]
Jeff: I would like to hear from others...
15:25:28 [CharlesL]
Fazio: i noticed issue with this document, not all dimensions are the same. In support we don't break them down into categories like other dimensions.
15:26:32 [CharlesL]
Jeff: I don't think they are adequate. like to hear from the other folks on this.
15:26:51 [CharlesL]
Fazio: anyone have issues? You can file an issue.
15:27:47 [CharlesL]
Charles: There may be outstanding pull requests that need to be merged.
15:27:50 [CharlesL]
q?
15:27:56 [CharlesL]
ack Mark_Miller
15:29:03 [CharlesL]
Mark_Miller: I am relatively new and not 100% clear on what should be in the proof points. CMMI model managed stage 2 is introduced, initial is adhoc stage.
15:29:44 [CharlesL]
... the final stage "optimizing" everything is built to be measured and using the data to improvements in an ongoing way.
15:30:32 [CharlesL]
... Trying to fit that concept in what we are doing in the definition of the stage optimized maybe measured needs to be added to the definition. the proof points has it in there.
15:31:47 [CharlesL]
Fazio: there are a few dimensions ,have this in. But we are just focusing on Support based on the Github issue. we can set a model in the Support dimension and then update the other dimensions.
15:33:35 [CharlesL]
Mark_Miller: Why are we not thinking of as a general requirement for all proofpoints?
15:34:19 [CharlesL]
Fazio: we can ask Jason to see if we have addressed his issue.
15:35:53 [CharlesL]
Jeff: why not put something about establishing goals, you can track different things but what are you tracking too?
15:36:32 [CharlesL]
... very open ended, a good project manager will help establish goals, we are remiss we can add it later, how are we dealing with this.
15:37:03 [CharlesL]
David: Yes, can you come up with something Jeff?
15:37:14 [CharlesL]
Jeff: I actually did in my email last week.
15:38:02 [CharlesL]
... I added 'procurement-related accessibility metrics are tracked and documented'
15:39:20 [CharlesL]
... also added: 3.6.2.5/6? Procurement Metrics and GoalsEstablish appropriate / meaningful goals and metrics the procurement organization, to measure and track progress towards achieving those goals.
15:40:06 [CharlesL]
Jeff: we want to make sure by x date 25% has appropriate procurement language etc. or in year 1 75%, and by year 2 100%.
15:41:02 [CharlesL]
... same with Support meaningful goals for the support function. people can sit down and establish goals for each dimension.
15:41:47 [CharlesL]
Fazio: Do we want to plug this into support now for the release (Metrics and goals?
15:42:09 [SusiPallero]
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15:42:24 [SusiPallero]
q+
15:43:19 [CharlesL]
... we can add the 2 bullets plus what you suggested Jeff. 3 bulletins. Keep whats there and add the extra bullet "Establish appropriate / meaningful goals and metrics the procurement organization, to measure and track progress towards achieving those goals."
15:44:19 [Fazio]
Support Metrics and Goals
15:44:21 [Fazio]
· Establish appropriate / meaningful goals and metrics the procurement organization, to measure and track progress towards achieving those goals.
15:44:22 [Fazio]
continuous improvement plans are ongoing
15:44:22 [Fazio]
accessibility support training relevant to each individual’s position is required, measured, and monitored for improvement.
15:45:33 [CharlesL]
s/procurement organization/support organization
15:45:45 [CharlesL]
ack SusiPallero
15:46:11 [CharlesL]
SusiPallero: support does not have the same structure as other dimensions.
15:46:23 [CharlesL]
Fazio: maybe after we publish. Thanks
15:46:39 [CharlesL]
... we don't have categories for proof points.
15:46:53 [CharlesL]
Jeff: Yeah I couldn't figure out a good way to do that at the time.
15:47:55 [CharlesL]
Jeff: support organizations plural.
15:48:46 [CharlesL]
Fazio: optimized stage and the following proofpoints has been added. does this address Jason's issue. (We can ask Jason once this has been added)
15:49:33 [CharlesL]
Fazio: this is not unique to Support and we need to apply to other dimensions.
15:50:45 [CharlesL]
Jeff: coming up with future goals and metrics will be done later.
15:51:32 [jlkline]
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15:52:37 [CharlesL]
Charles: I will add this and make a PR after this meeting.
15:52:57 [CharlesL]
David: once merged I will ping Roy to get this published.
15:53:07 [CharlesL]
q?
15:53:22 [SusiPallero]
+1
15:53:35 [CharlesL]
Fazio: everyone happy with this?
15:53:53 [CharlesL]
Charles, Jeff and Dr. Keith approved.
15:54:31 [CharlesL]
rrsagent, make logs public
15:54:33 [CharlesL]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:54:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/12-maturity-minutes.html CharlesL
18:08:37 [CharlesL]
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