13:02:20 RRSAgent has joined #matf 13:02:25 logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/06/12-matf-irc 13:02:25 RRSAgent, make logs Public 13:02:26 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), JJ 13:02:29 present + 13:02:36 Zakim, this is MATF June 12, 2024 13:02:36 got it, JJ 13:02:49 Zakim, list participants 13:02:49 As of this point the attendees have been JJ, RacheleD, Carol, AA, julianmka, Joe_Humbert, Mick, Devanshu, quintinb, Carolina, Karla, present, hdv, Double_a, audrey, Jamers, Jamie, 13:02:53 ... AlainVagner, Aashutosh, Gleidson 13:03:56 Karla has joined #matf 13:04:00 Zakim, end meeting 13:04:00 As of this point the attendees have been JJ, RacheleD, Carol, AA, julianmka, Joe_Humbert, Mick, Devanshu, quintinb, Carolina, Karla, present, hdv, Double_a, audrey, Jamers, Jamie, 13:04:03 ... AlainVagner, Aashutosh, Gleidson 13:04:03 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 13:04:04 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/12-matf-minutes.html Zakim 13:04:11 I am happy to have been of service, JJ; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 13:04:11 Zakim has left #matf 13:04:37 Detlev has joined #matf 13:04:43 Zakim has joined #matf 13:04:56 present+ 13:04:58 Zakim, start meeting 13:04:58 RRSAgent, make logs Public 13:05:00 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), JJ 13:05:06 present+ 13:05:13 Zakim, this is MATF June 12, 2024 13:05:13 got it, JJ 13:05:20 Zakim, list participants 13:05:20 As of this point the attendees have been Detlev 13:05:23 present+ 13:05:29 present+ 13:05:32 present+ 13:05:36 present+ 13:06:13 regrets+ Julian 13:06:43 scribe: Detlev 13:07:16 agenda+ Github issues 13:07:27 agenda+ 2.4.5 Multiple Ways 13:07:32 agenda+ 3.1.1 Language of Page 13:07:40 agenda+ 3.1.2 Language of Parts 13:07:54 Mick has joined #MATF 13:08:04 move to next agendum 13:08:04 agendum 1 -- Github issues -- taken up [from JJ] 13:08:21 present+ 13:08:26 Devanshu has joined #matf 13:08:36 Github issues discussed last week to cooperate 13:08:46 present+ 13:09:14 JJ: new comments: 1.4.4 Resize text new issue 13:09:33 SC 1.4.4 issue: https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/3 13:11:55 Jamie: elaborating on comment to Github issue on 1.4.4 13:12:04 (audio problems) 13:14:37 victoria: it should be a violation if there is an option to increase text size in the OS 13:15:07 ...agree that pinch to zoom satisfies 1.4.4 but it may not wor for all... 13:16:01 Detlev: explaining German ways of testing 1.4.4 13:17:39 EN 301 549 criterion 11.7 "User preferences": https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_en/301500_301599/301549/03.02.01_60/en_301549v030201p.pdf#page=82 13:18:41 Detlev explains line of though linking 1.4.4 ans 11.7 (EN 301 549) 13:18:53 JJ add to Github issue, please 13:18:56 SC 1.4.13 - https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/6#issuecomment-2148018505 13:19:30 SC 2.1.1 - https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/12#issuecomment-2162860771 13:19:42 SC 1.3.5 - https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/2#issuecomment-2162929407 13:19:54 JJ going through new comments to these SCs 13:20:15 Definition of sets - https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/11#issuecomment-2158852646 13:20:32 move to next agendum 13:20:32 agendum 2 -- 2.4.5 Multiple Ways -- taken up [from JJ] 13:21:51 https://w3c.github.io/wcag2ict/#multiple-ways 13:22:22 Jamie has joined #matf 13:22:29 present+ 13:22:48 if you have comments on that put yourself on queue with p+ 13:22:53 q+ 13:23:13 q- 13:24:30 in an app we are normally dealing with processes / flows 13:25:04 JJ: discussing differences between web and app - does 2.4.5 really aplly to mobile apps 13:25:25 q+ 13:25:28 JJ: is that desirable that there are multiple ways 13:25:32 q+ 13:25:34 ack AlainVagner 13:26:11 Alain: when you have navigation but often no additional search function or site map 13:26:27 ...could sometimes be applied to mobile applications 13:26:35 ...it is an exception in the EN 13:26:48 ack Detlev 13:26:52 Section 508 standards for software also list WCAG 2.4.5 as an exception. 13:27:44 q+ 13:28:05 Mick has joined #MATF 13:28:11 present+ 13:28:12 explaining why 2.4.5 as well as consistent id and consistent nav are not covered in our BIK test procedure 13:28:23 q+ 13:28:36 JJ: the new ADA has no exception for 2.4.5 for apps 13:28:36 q+ 13:29:03 JJ: hinges on what is considered a process in an app 13:29:04 ack RacheleD 13:29:44 ack Mick 13:30:01 Rachele: Losts of apps have a tab bar - they are nto discrete entities but pare of a whole - so probably does not apply 13:30:23 q+ 13:30:30 Mick: we look at it as a flow - users can find it difficult to get back 13:30:48 ack Jamie 13:31:50 Jamie: web versions of processes such as a financial transfer - is it considered the same thing in an app and thus a good example for a set of pages / screens? 13:32:16 Good to identify the processes we see to check whether they are equivalent 13:33:04 q- 13:33:04 JJ: agree, will help to see examples of processes 13:33:51 JJ: Tries to set up a meeting with someone from theWCAG2ICT TF to discuss examples of "sets of software" 13:34:08 JJ: will link into GitHub issues 13:34:19 move to next agendum 13:34:19 move to next agendum 13:34:22 agendum 3 -- 3.1.1 Language of Page -- taken up [from JJ] 13:34:22 agendum 3 was just opened, Detlev 13:35:30 JJ: in HTML there is lang attrivute - in apps there are localized resources - acknowledged by WCAG2ICT 13:36:00 JJ (reading note from 3.1.1 in WCAG2ICT doc) 13:36:54 JJ: iOS has acessibilitylanguage in Android no equivalent - but ways to localize resources and checks of language set in the OS 13:37:39 JJ: problematic when device is set to English but the app is Dutch - so the screen reader may use the wrong language 13:37:59 ...more thoughs about "language of page" and how to set it in an app? 13:38:14 JJ has joined #matf 13:38:14 audrey has joined #matf 13:38:40 IRC Cheatsheet: https://github.com/w3c/matf/wiki/IRC-Cheatsheet 13:39:01 zakim, show queue 13:39:01 I see no one on the speaker queue 13:39:19 no comments on language 13:39:26 q? 13:40:01 q+ 13:40:01 JJ: sharing appt.org resources for localizing assets 13:40:52 JJ: setting language for strings 13:41:28 ...iOS has the same via accessibilitySpeechLanguage 13:41:47 JJ: this is more applying to language of parts 13:41:56 ack Karla 13:42:43 q+ 13:42:47 Karla: A point regarding currencies say match dollar and pesos or length values 13:43:04 ack AlainVagner 13:43:13 JJ: there is stuff in the EN about user preferences (km / miles) 13:43:55 Alain: language of parts is usefull because people may use muliple languages on the same app. We should discuss how to test it 13:46:40 Detlev has joined #matf 13:47:12 Zakim: make minutes 13:47:17 rrsagent, make minutes 13:47:18 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/12-matf-minutes.html JJ 13:47:53 zakim, take up next item 13:47:53 agendum 4 -- 3.1.2 Language of Parts -- taken up [from JJ] 13:48:45 JJ: (explaining the intent of 3.1.2) 13:48:58 ...software replaces page 13:49:45 ...section 508 this is excluded, also in the EN s301 549 - thi sis surprising because it can be done 13:50:06 q+ 13:50:09 JJ: contentwis it can be challenging but that's the same for web stuff 13:50:13 ack AlainVagner 13:50:45 To apply the related web page requirement for "Language of parts" to software would require the 13:50:45 marking-up of all text in all locations within the software. This would be impossible so an equivalent is 13:50:45 not included in this clause on software requirements 13:50:53 Alain: for the EN (reads the rationale why it is not covernd for software) 13:52:34 JJ: maybe it means that it is more difficult to achieve - not quite clear 13:52:52 q+ 13:53:05 JJ: why is it impossible? 13:53:09 ack Detlev 13:53:50 I have checked in the GitLab of the EN 301 549, there is no issue about this SC. 13:54:44 JJ: possible in iOS and Androind, possibly more difficult in other Software environments 13:55:18 ...no issue in the issue tracker for EN 301549 - maybe we should create one? 13:55:36 ...was frst excluded in section 508, EN followed on 13:56:31 Gleidson: it is difficult to implement in the Android development environment - nothing documented 13:58:09 Gleidson: was referring to Jetpack Compose 13:58:34 JJ: will discuss with WCAG2ICT to see how we can cooperate 13:58:36 q+ 13:58:44 ack Detlev 14:00:04 SC 2.1.1 issue: https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/12 14:00:53 Detlev: explaining why keyboard a11y is difficult 14:01:15 Zakim, list participants 14:01:15 As of this point the attendees have been Detlev, audrey, AlainVagner, RacheleD, Karla, Mick, Devanshu, Jamie 14:01:36 present+ Gleidson 14:01:47 present+ Victoria 14:02:07 Zakim, list participants 14:02:07 As of this point the attendees have been Detlev, audrey, AlainVagner, RacheleD, Karla, Mick, Devanshu, Jamie, Gleidson, Victoria 14:02:40 rrsagent, make minutes 14:02:42 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/12-matf-minutes.html JJ 14:04:29 Zakim, list participants 14:04:29 As of this point the attendees have been Detlev, audrey, AlainVagner, RacheleD, Karla, Mick, Devanshu, Jamie, Gleidson, Victoria 14:05:42 present- AA 14:05:48 present- Aashutosh 14:05:50 Zakim, list participants 14:05:50 As of this point the attendees have been Detlev, audrey, AlainVagner, RacheleD, Karla, Mick, Devanshu, Jamie, Gleidson, Victoria 14:05:56 rrsagent, make minutes\ 14:05:56 I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes\', JJ. Try /msg RRSAgent help 14:05:59 rrsagent, make minutes 14:06:01 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/12-matf-minutes.html JJ 14:08:44 TOPIC: Attendees 14:09:12 Attendees are not correctly logged in the minutes. 14:09:21 Attendees: JJ, Detlev, audrey, AlainVagner, RacheleD, Karla, Mick, Devanshu, Jamie, Gleidson, Victoria 14:09:23 present+ 14:09:28 rrsagent, make minutes 14:09:30 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/12-matf-minutes.html JJ 14:23:38 JJ has joined #matf 14:23:48 zakim, bye 14:23:48 leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Detlev, audrey, AlainVagner, RacheleD, Karla, Mick, Devanshu, Jamie, Gleidson, Victoria, JJ 14:23:48 Zakim has left #matf 14:23:54 rrsagent, excuse us 14:23:54 I see no action items