IRC log of coga on 2024-06-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

11:55:11 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #coga
11:55:15 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/06/06-coga-irc
11:55:15 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
11:55:16 [Zakim]
Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
11:55:23 [rashmi]
present+
11:55:59 [rashmi]
agenda+ discuss editorial changes needed(wordsmithing) for proposal 10, proposal 11, Proposal 8 to move to editor's draft in GitHub
11:56:44 [rashmi]
agenda+ To discuss the commits in Github branches MH_Proposal2_LimitTopics, MH_Proposal5_6_7_Search for added proposals (2, 5-6-7, 9, 12)
12:00:28 [lisa]
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12:01:17 [lisa]
agenda?
12:01:33 [lisa]
close item 3
12:01:39 [lisa]
close item 4
12:02:05 [lisa]
agenda?
12:02:21 [lisa]
next item
12:03:11 [rashmi]
Discussing Proposal 10 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1K4tI9SV4lsDXzCdaEAXExeL3f061__Sy06lfGV9mLvY/edit#heading=h.ltk4x1p6kttz
12:04:35 [lisa]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1K4tI9SV4lsDXzCdaEAXExeL3f061__Sy06lfGV9mLvY/edit#heading=h.ltk4x1p6kttz
12:04:47 [lisa]
https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#make-short-critical-paths-pattern
13:12:30 [rashmi]
RRSAgent, make minutes -
13:12:30 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes -', rashmi. Try /msg RRSAgent help
13:12:35 [rashmi]
RRSAgent, make minutes
13:12:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/06-coga-minutes.html rashmi
15:01:58 [julierawe]
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15:02:10 [Rain]
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15:02:27 [Frankie]
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15:02:33 [Frankie]
present+
15:03:00 [JohnRochford]
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15:03:20 [julierawe4]
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15:03:44 [julierawe4]
invite, zakim +Clear Language
15:03:52 [julierawe4]
zakim, start meeting
15:03:52 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:03:59 [Zakim]
Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:03:59 [julierawe4]
chair: julierawe
15:04:02 [Rain]
present+
15:04:09 [julierawe4]
Meeting: Clear Language and WCAG 3 coordination
15:04:22 [julierawe4]
date: 06 06 2024
15:04:23 [julierawe4]
zakim, clear agenda
15:04:23 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
15:04:34 [julierawe4]
agenda+ WCAG 3 conformance update
15:05:49 [julierawe4]
agenda+ AG survey
15:05:50 [JohnRochford]
present+
15:06:07 [julierawe4]
agenda next
15:06:16 [julierawe4]
zakim, next item
15:06:16 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- WCAG 3 conformance update -- taken up [from julierawe4]
15:06:52 [julierawe4]
https://www.w3.org/2024/06/04-ag-minutes.html
15:07:03 [julierawe4]
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/17VJvnm5UQW4WUzIoo9QNPVGfePgaZa8ifZWs-wtmv7E/edit#slide=id.p
15:10:02 [julierawe4]
One possible way AG could do conformance:
15:10:02 [julierawe4]
Bronze - All Requirements
15:10:02 [julierawe4]
Silver - Bronze + 50% of Best Practices
15:10:02 [julierawe4]
Gold - Bronze + 75% of Best Practices and 50% of Assertions
15:15:45 [julierawe4]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Requirements_Survey/?login
15:20:41 [tburtin]
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15:20:46 [Rain]
Discussed challenges with the survey:
15:20:47 [tburtin]
present+
15:21:08 [Rain]
Julie: doesn't really know what all the things are, so cannot really make a binary choice of whether or not each thing should be a baseline requirement
15:21:47 [Rain]
Rain: very concerned that this survey is not viable for someone with a reading disability (personally will not be able to fill this out)
15:22:18 [Rain]
Julie: maybe we can send an email to the AG co-chairs to share that this survey is really really hard to use and process and should not be a determinant for our baseline
15:22:25 [Rain]
Julie: will especially hurt COGA work
15:23:13 [Frankie]
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15:24:26 [tburtin]
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15:24:37 [Rain]
Julie: also recognizing that not everyone knows enough to make decisions
15:25:29 [Rain]
Julie: perhaps a more useful exercise would be to have the people who have been working on them to make more nuanced recomendations
15:25:44 [Rain]
... so that we don't have people weighing in on things they don't know anything about
15:33:48 [Rain]
John R: what is the next step?
15:34:11 [Rain]
Julie: write to AG chairs on behalf of group with the following points:
15:34:19 [Rain]
1. survey is inaccessible as created
15:34:23 [Rain]
2. propose a different way
15:34:27 [Rain]
Different way includes
15:34:59 [Rain]
have individuals in the subgroups who worked on each of these make the initial recommendation of which are part of baseline, and which are best practices
15:35:17 [Rain]
so that the decisions are being made by people with knowledge who can make recommendation
15:37:50 [julierawe4]
Rain: An intermediate solution might be to do a survey on each question so people can indicat on each outcome to say I don't have enough knowlege to make a decision
15:39:08 [julierawe4]
Frankie: This survey is so overwhelming and it's not easy to comment
15:39:17 [julierawe4]
Frankie: I don't think this is the most effective way to move forward
15:39:42 [julierawe4]
Frankie: This could lead to drawing a line of what gets tested and what doesn't
15:40:41 [julierawe4]
Frankie: People often complain that cognitive/language issues are hard to test, but that may be because they don't have experience in those areas
15:40:51 [julierawe4]
Frankie: experience on how to make testable/repeatable
15:41:32 [julierawe4]
Tiffany: I talk to the AG chairs a lot because I need clarification
15:42:06 [julierawe4]
Tiffany: For this survey, they likely did not give the specific headings or groups in order to generalize or hide it because some of the conversations have been pretty heated lately
15:42:42 [julierawe0]
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15:42:43 [julierawe0]
present+
15:42:51 [julierawe0]
IRC just kicked me out for no reason, ugh
15:45:16 [julierawe0]
Can you all see what I'm typing?
15:45:24 [tburtin]
I can now
15:46:24 [julierawe0]
John R: I suggest we draft the email, look at it together, then send
15:46:35 [julierawe0]
Julie: I will draft after this meeting and send to you all
15:46:46 [julierawe0]
John R: Include a deadline to respond or else assume you're fine with it
15:47:56 [julierawe0]
Tiffany: I believe that John Kirkwood did raise a lot of concerns on Tuesday so you might want to include him in this draft message
15:48:04 [julierawe0]
zakim, next item
15:48:04 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- AG survey -- taken up [from julierawe4]
15:48:34 [julierawe0]
Tiffany: It's a balance--the chairs do seem to understand that we need a balance of automated testing and user testing
15:50:31 [julierawe0]
Tiffany: I've already spent 2 hours and still not done
15:51:25 [julierawe0]
Julie: I am going to uncheck all of my boxes and say not to count my survey results
15:53:23 [julierawe0]
Tiffany: Suggest sharing with COGA that we are raising concerns with AG chairs about the survey
15:54:29 [julierawe0]
Julie: I will send the draft as a google doc to our small group
15:54:38 [julierawe0]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:54:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/06-coga-minutes.html julierawe0
16:45:20 [kirkwood]
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