12:54:55 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #global-inclusion
12:54:59 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/06/05-global-inclusion-irc
12:54:59 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
12:55:00 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), JMcSorley
12:55:07 <JMcSorley> chair: Jan_McSorley
12:55:38 <JMcSorley> Meeting: International Accessibility Community Group
12:55:50 <JMcSorley> date: 05 06 2024
12:56:02 <JMcSorley> zakim, clear agenda
12:56:02 <Zakim> agenda cleared
12:56:51 <JMcSorley> Agenda+ Review May 15, 2024 meeting minutes: https://www.w3.org/2024/05/15-global-inclusion-minutes.html
12:57:16 <JMcSorley> Agenda+ Review Survey results for the short name of the community group.
12:57:38 <JMcSorley> Agenda+ Discuss ideas for recruiting.
12:58:20 <JMcSorley> Agenda+ Review the draft description and mission of the group and discuss the process for turning this into a group charter: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SgfzQMEd0MYydz6WoPBbuxx5CewjiUc5bsuu592uurI/edit?usp=sharing
12:58:27 <JMcSorley> present+ JMcSorley
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13:00:29 <kirkwood> kirkwood has joined #global-inclusion
13:00:59 <Philipp> Philipp has joined #global-inclusion
13:02:39 <Makoto> Makoto has joined #global-inclusion
13:02:51 <Makoto> present+
13:02:56 <KatyB> present+
13:03:14 <Philipp> google doc from before: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TeGEsD1JVf7L9bFW3_e7YTnqtmUnpTldJhD6N16ElAU/edit?pli=1#heading=h.6vl9v53q0fa2
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13:05:00 <JMcSorley> zakim, next item
13:05:00 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Review May 15, 2024 meeting minutes: https://www.w3.org/2024/05/15-global-inclusion-minutes.html -- taken up [from JMcSorley]
13:06:43 <julierawe3> julierawe3 has joined #global-inclusion
13:06:54 <julierawe3> present+
13:07:07 <JMcSorley> scribe+ Julie
13:07:30 <Philipp> present+
13:07:59 <julierawe3> Jan: In the last meeting we decided to do the same meeting time for 6 months and then to switch for the next six months
13:08:45 <julierawe3> Jan: In the last meeting Lisa described how we landed on doing tests in 5 languages, in collaboration with the internationalization group.
13:08:56 <kirkwood> present+
13:09:00 <julierawe3> Jan: We also decided we need to come up with a way to include other languages
13:09:25 <julierawe3> Jan: Lisa and I talked after the meeting about trying as a group to come up with a way to appeal to people when recruiting new members.
13:09:59 <julierawe3> Jan: We want people with different language and cultural experiences. We also want people who care about this topic and want to contribute.
13:10:45 <julierawe3> Jan: We shared a spreadsheet of all the patterns in Making Content Usable for People with Cognitive and Learning Disabilities.
13:11:18 <julierawe3> We will not discuss the spreadsheet today but we'll focus on it at the next meeting. We need a plan to prioritize which patterns we need to focus on.
13:11:51 <JMcSorley> zakim, next item
13:11:51 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, JMcSorley
13:11:57 <JMcSorley> Q+
13:12:27 <JMcSorley> ack Lisa
13:12:35 <JMcSorley> q?
13:12:45 <JMcSorley> ack JMcSorley
13:12:53 <Frankie> Frankie has joined #global-inclusion
13:12:55 <JMcSorley> zakim, next item
13:12:55 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Review Survey results for the short name of the community group. -- taken up [from JMcSorley]
13:13:00 <Frankie> present+
13:13:36 <julierawe3> Jan: We did a survey to help decide whether to change the short name for this group from "Global Inclusion" to something else
13:13:47 <julierawe3> Jan: We also surveyed people about possible meeting times
13:15:29 <julierawe3> Jan: 4 people ranked "Global Inclusion" as their first choice, no one said they don't want the name, so we're sticking with this short name
13:16:29 <julierawe3> Jan: For meeting times, 5 people said they don't mind current time, one person ranked as first choice, and no one said "don't want"
13:17:40 <julierawe3> Jan: For second suggestion (to have switch times every other meeting), 3 voted against, one said didn't mind and one ranked as 1st choice
13:18:25 <julierawe3> For third option (to set up two meetings in two parts of the world and use same agenda), 3 said they didn't mind, 1 said didn't want, and one chose as 2nd choice
13:19:01 <julierawe3> For last option (switch the meeting time twice a year), 5 said they don't mind, one said don't want, and one chose as first option
13:20:22 <julierawe3> Jan: Based on this survey, we're going to switch the time every six months so it's convenient for people in Europe half the year and convenient for people in Asia for half the year
13:20:43 <JMcSorley> q?
13:20:44 <julierawe3> Jan: We'll see how that works for us
13:20:53 <JMcSorley> zakim, next item
13:20:53 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Discuss ideas for recruiting. -- taken up [from JMcSorley]
13:21:53 <julierawe3> Jan: We will talk later today about the wording in our charter
13:22:14 <julierawe3> Jan: We want to have representatives from three groups: COGA, AG and internationalization
13:22:51 <julierawe3> Jan: The group will help with WCAG 3, which is a long ways off.
13:23:15 <julierawe3> Jan thanked Julie for LinkedIn post summarizing where we are with WCAG 3 in general
13:23:32 <Philipp> Philipp has joined #global-inclusion
13:23:47 <julierawe3> Jan: I saw Makoto comment on things that will have language-related issues for AGWG and we appreciate having that advice
13:24:04 <Rachael> q+
13:24:17 <julierawe3> Jan: We will start by looking at Making Content Usable patterns and we hope to get requests soon from AGWG for helping with WCAG and internationalization
13:25:07 <julierawe3> Jan: Let's brainstorm on how to recruit so we have diverse representation in terms of language experience, people with disabilities, people who work in accessility
13:25:11 <Rachael> q-
13:25:48 <julierawe3> Katy: I was contacted by someone in Scotland who is trying to set up another Easy Read network. I invited her to join this group. I can also share the invite to other people in that network as well, including Australia and elswhere
13:26:42 <julierawe3> Makoto: I've tried to invite some colleagues in the Japan DAISY consortium
13:26:58 <julierawe3> Jan: I will look at the community group to see if they have joined
13:27:26 <julierawe3> Makoto: I don't expect them to participate in teleconferences because of the language barrier
13:28:00 <julierawe3> Philipp: I will ask at the next XLE Tokyo monthly meetup for volunteers
13:28:25 <Philipp> https://a11ytyo.connpass.com
13:28:43 <kirkwood> use/ask AI to write a compelling email to recruit members for internationalizing  cognitive accessibility to  [this is for a post and email blast language]
13:28:45 <julierawe3> Jan: Both of you mentioned the language barrier because this meeting is in English
13:28:50 <julierawe3> q+
13:29:02 <Frankie> q+
13:29:32 <kirkwood> q+
13:29:36 <julierawe3> Jan: I wonder if it would help to identify members' languages and get liaisons so we can hold separate meetings once a month in those languages so get some of the tasks done
13:29:56 <julierawe3> Jan: I think if we plan ahead, we can address the language barrier so it doesn't keep people away
13:30:02 <julierawe3> John K: That sounds good to me
13:30:38 <julierawe3> John K: Having dealt with internationalization a lot with the Department of Education, we used some tools. Microsoft has tools that do real-time translation into seven languages.
13:30:57 <julierawe3> John K: As I recall, it was on their devices rather than through enterprise software
13:31:43 <Makoto> +q
13:33:16 <julierawe3> Julie: I believe W3C has a real-time translation tool that could help people attend the full-group meetings. I also like Jan's idea of having some separate language-specific meetings to get language-specific tasks done.
13:33:23 <julierawe3> Jan: I will follow-up about that.
13:33:56 <julierawe3> John K: Don't be afraid to use AI to blast out invitations on social media in different languages.
13:34:09 <julierawe3> q+
13:34:41 <kirkwood> q-
13:34:43 <Philipp> julierawe3 sorry its "a11y Tokyo meetup". thank you
13:34:46 <julierawe3> Frankie: The A11y Seattle group is restarting after a long hiatus because of COVID. There's tons of folks in the Seattle area working in this space. I will try to recruit some of those people.
13:35:09 <julierawe3> Makoto: I am now using auto-captions in this meeting, which is very helpful.
13:35:32 <Frankie> A11y Seattle: https://www.meetup.com/a11ysea/
13:35:42 <julierawe3> Makoto: I think if some people are very interested, auto-captions will help.
13:36:01 <julierawe3> Makoto: Communication in Github is very easy because you can write everything rather than speaking and listening.
13:36:11 <julierawe3> Makoto: Encouraging non-oral communication is easier.
13:37:10 <Philipp> also: https://www.meetup.com/a11ytokyo/
13:38:01 <julierawe3> Julie: Has anyone reached out to the language-specific groups at W3C?
13:38:18 <kirkwood> should we create a spreadsheet of groups?
13:39:06 <julierawe3> Makoto: The internationalization group already has several subgroups. For example, Japanese task force. Also for Korean, Chinese, Hindi. Lots of groups.
13:39:22 <julierawe3> Makoto: Some groups are very active, have multiple meetings a month. Some groups are less active.
13:39:46 <julierawe3> Makoto: These groups are for requirement documents and provide useful feedback to internationalization.
13:39:53 <julierawe3> Makoto: We want to mimic that success.
13:40:21 <julierawe3> Jan: So the internationalization working group has language groups that meet separately and provide feedback back to the main internationalization working group?
13:40:24 <JMcSorley> q?
13:40:26 <julierawe3> Makoto: Yes
13:40:28 <julierawe3> q+
13:41:37 <julierawe3> Julie: Can we work with these groups directly? Hoping we don't need to set up parallel groups
13:42:01 <Philipp> https://www.w3.org/International/clreq/charter/
13:42:11 <Philipp> https://www.w3.org/groups/tf/i18n-jlreq/
13:42:35 <julierawe3> Makoto: You might want to count on existing task forces
13:42:49 <julierawe3> Makoto: However, most members are not experts on accessibility.
13:43:13 <julierawe3> Jan: Would it be helpful when we ask them for feedback to give explanation for why this section of text was recommended?
13:43:15 <julierawe3> q+
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13:44:26 <Makoto> present+
13:45:19 <JMcSorley> q?
13:45:25 <julierawe3> Julie: We would not need them to be experts on accessibility. We would explain why the pattern or outcome is important and get their feedback on whether the pattern or outcome would work in their language or if it needs adjusting
13:45:29 <Frankie> q-
13:45:35 <JMcSorley> ack Makoto
13:45:41 <julierawe3> Jan: Some of the patterns involve cultural differences such as use of color
13:46:09 <Rachael> Survey on which Outcomes need internationalization subgroup engagement https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/internationalization_outcomes
13:46:10 <julierawe3> Rachael: It would helpful from my perspect on which WCAG outcomes we should engage this community group
13:46:23 <Makoto> https://www.w3.org/groups/tf/i18n-mlreq/
13:46:35 <Makoto> https://www.w3.org/groups/tf/iip/
13:46:43 <Makoto> https://www.w3.org/groups/tf/i18n-hlreq/
13:46:57 <Makoto> https://www.w3.org/groups/tf/i18n-elreq/
13:47:09 <julierawe3> Rachael: We can help share those outcomes with those language groups
13:47:30 <Makoto> ]https://www.w3.org/groups/tf/i18n-sealreq/
13:47:37 <Makoto> https://www.w3.org/groups/tf/i18n-tlreq/
13:48:14 <Makoto> https://www.w3.org/groups/tf/i18n-afrlreq/
13:48:25 <Makoto> https://www.w3.org/groups/tf/i18n-alreq/
13:50:06 <julierawe3> Correction: Rachael would use our survey results about which outcomes involve internationalization to help keep us in the loop about when those outcomes are being worked on
13:50:13 <JMcSorley> q?
13:50:40 <julierawe3> Julie: Just wanted to flag that some of the entries in the survey are not easy to understand
13:50:43 <julierawe3> q-
13:51:04 <julierawe3> Jan: I think Julie is going to have the perspective of all three of these groups
13:51:14 <Rachael> If it's more helpful for the group to go through it together in a future meeting, that would also work.
13:51:17 <KatyB> I am sharing the easy language networks here for future reference: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12970417/ and https://www.facebook.com/ELINnetwork/
13:51:20 <julierawe3> Jan: Our first task is deciding what our charter is going to be
13:51:28 <julierawe3> q+
13:52:45 <Makoto> I am unhappy with the current section.
13:54:01 <Rachael> q+
13:54:26 <Makoto> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG22/#visual-presentation
13:55:24 <julierawe3> Julie: Possible for Rachael to create version of the survey that puts in the first section all the wording and text appearance outcomes and puts everything else in the second section and makes clear it's OK if you aren't sure whether this second bucket requires internationalization
13:55:35 <Philipp> Makoto great points!
13:55:51 <julierawe3> Makoto pointed out several outcomes that are biased for non-vertical languages
13:56:07 <julierawe3> Makoto The first goal is to eliminate what is harmful for all languages
13:56:08 <julierawe3> q+
13:56:42 <julierawe3> Makoto: Things that involve line spacing, paragraph spacing, line height that might not be applicable to the whole world
13:57:11 <julierawe3> Rachael: In WCAG 2.2, we attempted to address those in collaboration with the internationalization working group
13:57:18 <julierawe3> Rachael: We want to get it right.
13:59:34 <julierawe3> Rachael: It would be time-consuming to adjust the survey. It would be easier to give you a spreadsheet so you can go through section by section.
13:59:45 <julierawe3> Makoto: It's not possible to go through for all languages in the world.
14:00:17 <julierawe3> Makoto: It's not impossible in Japanese, but in Mongolian, I don't know anything about Mongolian language.
14:00:25 <Rachael> Excel sheet for future use https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MVNJiibdvaVbdWv452fAbDw1s7pwNmDy_YpQzZWJwwU/edit?usp=sharing
14:00:46 <kirkwood> heee hee argh i just finished it. oops
14:01:09 <julierawe3> Makoto: I would like WCAG 3 to be more abstract so they work for more languages and avoid things that might be dangerous for some languages
14:02:02 <julierawe3> Julie: I think the first step is to flag problems and then see how we can adjust the guidance so it's not harmful
14:02:21 <julierawe3> Jan: Next time we will look at the Making Content Usable patterns
14:02:34 <julierawe3> Jan: If Rachael can share spreadsheet, I will share it with the group
14:03:18 <julierawe3> Jan: I can send guidance in a few days on how to fill those out
14:03:34 <julierawe3> rrsagent, make minutes
14:03:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/05-global-inclusion-minutes.html julierawe3
14:33:59 <JMcSorley> JMcSorley has joined #global-inclusion
14:34:06 <JMcSorley> zakim, end meeting
14:34:06 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been MURATA, JMcSorley, Frankie, Katy, Makoto, KatyB, julierawe, Philipp, kirkwood
14:34:08 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:34:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/06/05-global-inclusion-minutes.html Zakim
14:34:15 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, JMcSorley; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
14:34:16 <Zakim> Zakim has left #global-inclusion
14:34:29 <JMcSorley> rrsagent, bye
14:34:29 <RRSAgent> I see no action items