IRC log of apa on 2024-05-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:25:10 [RRSAgent]

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/05/29-apa-irc

12:25:15 [Zakim]

RRSAgent, make logs Public

12:25:16 [Zakim]

please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), janina

12:26:10 [janina]

Chair: Matthew

12:26:10 [janina]

agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements

12:26:10 [janina]

Agenda+ TPAC 2024 Planning

12:26:19 [janina]

agenda+ Task Force & Deliverables Updates

12:26:49 [janina]

agenda+ HR A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review

12:26:52 [janina]

agenda+ Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues

12:26:54 [janina]

agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html

12:26:57 [janina]

agenda+ CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues

12:26:59 [janina]

agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) https://github.com/issues/assigned

12:27:02 [janina]

agenda+ Other Business

12:27:04 [janina]

agenda+ be done

12:28:54 [janina]

Meeting: APA Weekly Teleconference

12:29:08 [janina]

Date: 29 May 2024

13:57:08 [matatk]

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agenda?

13:57:16 [matatk]

present+

13:57:21 [matatk]

present+ Matthew

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13:59:32 [Dr_Keith]

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14:00:51 [JenStrickland]

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present+

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present+

14:02:07 [niklasegger]

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present+

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14:04:50 [mike_beganyi]

present+

14:04:58 [NehaJ]

present+

14:05:35 [Dr_Keith]

I can't get into the zoom :(

14:05:39 [Dr_Keith]

present+

14:06:59 [Dr_Keith]

in now :)

14:07:44 [Lionel_Wolberger]

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14:07:48 [Lionel_Wolberger]

present+

14:08:05 [Lionel_Wolberger]

rrsagent, make minutes

14:08:06 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/29-apa-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger

14:08:16 [Lionel_Wolberger]

agenda?

14:10:23 [matatk]

zakim, next item

14:10:23 [Zakim]

agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from janina]

14:10:23 [janina]

Link to W3C Calendar on git hub ...

14:10:37 [Lionel_Wolberger]

scribe+

14:10:49 [janina]

https://github.com/w3c/calendar/

14:11:28 [Fazio]

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14:11:41 [Lionel_Wolberger]

matatk: Please file issues or let APA know if there are any issues with the calendar.

14:12:00 [Fazio]

present+

14:12:46 [Lionel_Wolberger]

janina: There is a CfC open for CTAUR, please respond by midnight Boston time.

14:13:00 [janina]

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa-admin/2024May/0004.html

14:14:14 [Lionel_Wolberger]

Fazio: This is Collaboration Tools Accessibility User Requirements

14:14:17 [JenStrickland]

CTAUR=Collaboration Tools Accessibility User Requirements

14:14:31 [JenStrickland]

Thanks, Lionel!

14:15:40 [Dr_Keith]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG2AA-Conformance

14:17:53 [matatk]

q?

14:18:59 [Lionel_Wolberger]

Lionel_Wolberger: +1, the info is not here https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/conformance.html#uc-levels-head

14:19:01 [Dr_Keith]

one more: https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG22/Understanding/conformance#levels

14:19:04 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, next item

14:19:04 [Zakim]

agendum 2 -- TPAC 2024 Planning -- taken up [from janina]

14:19:52 [Fazio]

I looked at both links last weekend. No definition of A, AA, AA

14:20:01 [Lionel_Wolberger]

rrsagent, make minutes

14:20:02 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/29-apa-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger

14:20:28 [Lionel_Wolberger]

matatk: We need to plan our meetings

14:20:50 [Lionel_Wolberger]

janina: Need to meet with groups dealing with Media, e.g. MIG (media interest group)

14:21:27 [Lionel_Wolberger]

janina: The AUR (Accessibility User Requirements) series began when HTML5 kicked off

14:21:45 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... MAUR was the first one, invented at the time, we had coordination with Apple and other large corporations

14:21:56 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... this MAUR helped guide HTML5

14:21:56 [matatk]

Digital Accessibility User Requirements: Digital Accessibility User Requirements

14:22:07 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... that kicked off the series of AUR

14:22:30 [matatk]

Digital Accessibility User Requirements: https://www.w3.org/WAI/research/user-requirements/

14:22:54 [matatk]

q?

14:23:13 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, next item

14:23:13 [Zakim]

agendum 3 -- Task Force & Deliverables Updates -- taken up [from janina]

14:23:46 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, close this item

14:23:46 [Zakim]

agendum 3 closed

14:23:47 [Zakim]

I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

14:23:47 [Zakim]

4. HR A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review [from janina]

14:23:50 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, next item

14:23:50 [Zakim]

agendum 4 -- HR A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review -- taken up [from janina]

14:26:22 [matatk]

subtopic: Mark features that might expose accessibility tools

14:26:23 [matatk]

gb, off

14:26:24 [gb]

matatk, issues and names were already off.

14:26:41 [matatk]

Tracking issue: https://github.com/w3c/a11y-review/issues/194

14:28:05 [Lionel_Wolberger]

matatk: There is a mark currently defined to surface the risk of fingerprinting

14:29:00 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... this considers having a similar signal, when there is a risk of detecting AT

14:29:15 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... I would like to widen the discussion to considering what exactly is AT

14:29:19 [Lionel_Wolberger]

q+

14:31:29 [matatk]

ack Lionel_Wolberger

14:31:33 [matatk]

scribe+

14:32:13 [matatk]

Lionel_Wolberger: this topic is of deep interest to me. There's subtle differentiation. This feels like 3 topics. Where this is born is: could the thing you're adding to the browser contribute to fingerprinting?

14:32:31 [matatk]

... e.g. if you have a unique font, that can contribute to fingerprinting.

14:32:41 [matatk]

... contributing to fingerprinting is not the same thing as detecting AT

14:33:03 [matatk]

... You (matatk) opened it up to 'what is AT?' - a wider discussion

14:33:32 [matatk]

... Finally: the browser _must_ be aware of the AT - it creates the accessibility tree and it helps the screen reader. Right now privacy protection of AT is based on handshakes all 'round.

14:33:54 [matatk]

... Google says, for example, that Chrome doesn't expose it. Browsers could though. But everyone stays away from this.

14:34:25 [matatk]

... The topic came up in our recent era because there ware ways to detect AT based on user behavior on the page. That's a distinct, 4th, topic.

14:35:06 [Fazio]

q+

14:35:10 [matatk]

janina: Sounds like the proposal is a badge on the spec to say it presents such a risk?

14:35:35 [matatk]

Lionel_Wolberger: Difference between fingerprinting and behavior-based detection.

14:35:55 [matatk]

... A fingerprint is a mark you leave behind - a set pattern of the stuff you've done to it (extensions, fonts, versions, ...)

14:36:55 [matatk]

ack Fazio

14:37:00 [Lionel_Wolberger]

Fazio: We need to be very specific, as Lionel is indicating

14:37:09 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... is it as an individual, or as a disability type

14:37:59 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... "this browser is set up this way" is unlikely to be able to parsed into, "the user has this disability"

14:38:18 [Lionel_Wolberger]

janina: If it only identifies a class of users, that might be ok

14:38:30 [Lionel_Wolberger]

Fazio: +1 to the label, "class of users"

14:38:34 [matatk]

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14:38:39 [janina]

rrsagent, make minutes

14:38:41 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/29-apa-minutes.html janina

14:38:49 [Dr_Keith]

we do need to read the spec. The data can be paired with other data to be a personal identifyer and even ID of a class of users could be something that leads to deeper issues around discrimination

14:39:08 [Lionel_Wolberger]

matatk: Keep in mind, if fingerprint can identify uniquely a particular browser, that is problematic enough

14:41:14 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, next item

14:41:14 [Zakim]

agendum 5 -- Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues -- taken up [from janina]

14:41:30 [matatk]

subtopic: HTML Ruby Markup Extensions 2024-05-23

14:41:48 [matatk]

Issue: https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues/83

14:43:29 [Lionel_Wolberger]

matatk: Ruby is a scripting language used for "interlinear annotation... short runs of text alongside the base text". Often useful in adding accents to characters, and Asian languages. Spec, https://www.w3.org/TR/html-ruby-extensions/

14:44:47 [Lionel_Wolberger]

janina: We know some people in Japan who may be interesting in doing this review

14:46:12 [janina]

regrets: Fredrik, Paul

14:47:05 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, next item

14:47:05 [Zakim]

agendum 6 -- new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html -- taken up [from janina]

14:48:03 [matatk]

agenda?

14:48:06 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, close this item

14:48:07 [Zakim]

agendum 6 closed

14:48:07 [Zakim]

I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

14:48:07 [Zakim]

7. CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues [from janina]

14:48:07 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, next item

14:48:08 [Zakim]

agendum 7 -- CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues -- taken up [from janina]

14:48:12 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, close this item

14:48:12 [Zakim]

agendum 7 closed

14:48:13 [Zakim]

I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

14:48:13 [Zakim]

8. Actions Checkin (Specs) https://github.com/issues/assigned [from janina]

14:48:14 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, next item

14:48:14 [Zakim]

agendum 8 -- Actions Checkin (Specs) https://github.com/issues/assigned -- taken up [from janina]

14:49:34 [matatk]

q?

14:49:43 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, close this item

14:49:43 [Zakim]

agendum 8 closed

14:49:44 [Zakim]

I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

14:49:44 [Zakim]

9. Other Business [from janina]

14:49:46 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, next item

14:49:46 [Zakim]

agendum 9 -- Other Business -- taken up [from janina]

14:50:07 [matatk]

subtopic: Adapt at TPAC

14:51:04 [Lionel_Wolberger]

Lionel_Wolberger: Let's clarify the meetings that Adapt would want

14:51:22 [matatk]

https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/240

14:52:08 [Lionel_Wolberger]

matatk: On the issue of symbols, we have movement from AP that needs answering

14:54:16 [matatk]

q?

14:54:24 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, close this item

14:54:24 [Zakim]

agendum 9 closed

14:54:27 [Zakim]

I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:

14:54:27 [Zakim]

10. be done [from janina]

14:54:27 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, next item

14:54:28 [Zakim]

agendum 10 -- be done -- taken up [from janina]

14:54:45 [Lionel_Wolberger]

rrsagent, make minutes

14:54:46 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/29-apa-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger

14:55:23 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, end meeting

14:55:23 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been matatk, Matthew, JenStrickland, Iali, niklasegger, mike_beganyi, NehaJ, Dr_Keith, Lionel_Wolberger, Fazio

14:55:25 [Zakim]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

14:55:27 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/29-apa-minutes.html Zakim

14:55:32 [Zakim]

I am happy to have been of service, Lionel_Wolberger; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye

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