17:00:46 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
17:00:50 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/05/16-aria-irc
17:00:51 <jamesn> agendabot, find agenda
17:00:51 <agendabot> jamesn, OK. This may take a minute...
17:00:51 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/2b57854a-65cb-421e-b9e0-f9a8da31f160/20240516T130000/
17:00:51 <agendabot> clear agenda
17:00:51 <agendabot> agenda+ -> New Issue Triage https://tinyurl.com/5938j5d5
17:00:51 <agendabot> agenda+ -> New PR Triage https://tinyurl.com/y8kwvxub
17:00:51 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
17:00:52 <Zakim> Meeting: ARIA WG
17:00:52 <agendabot> agenda+ -> WPT Open PRs https://github.com/search?q=repo%3Aweb-platform-tests%2Fwpt+is%3Aopen+label%3Awai-aria%2Caccname&type=pullrequests
17:00:55 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates
17:00:57 <agendabot> agenda+ -> WAI-ARIA 1.1: Cell and gridcell https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/79
17:01:00 <agendabot> agenda+ -> ARIA should clarify distinction between “contents exposed as descendant text nodes” vs “name from contents” (Was: listitem should include name from Contents or name prohibited) https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2160 and -> td, th naming doesn't align with ARIA
17:01:04 <agendabot> … https://github.com/w3c/html-aam/issues/543
17:01:07 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Document interop of misspelled aria-labeledby and its conflict resolution https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2093
17:01:10 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Values table for aria-multiselectable/aria-current are missing "undefined" https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2176
17:01:13 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Clarify "undefined" assignment for a state/property as the value (not the string) https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2177
17:01:17 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Old issue triage! https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues?page=16&q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen
17:01:27 <knights> present+
17:01:29 <knights> I can scribe
17:01:46 <pkra> present+
17:01:49 <Summer> Summer has joined #aria
17:01:55 <sarah> sarah has joined #aria
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17:02:00 <sarah> present+
17:02:02 <katez> present+
17:02:05 <Summer> present+
17:02:49 <Adam_Page> present+
17:02:59 <Francis_Storr> Francis_Storr has joined #aria
17:03:25 <CoryJoseph> Present+
17:03:29 <keithamus> present+
17:03:43 <dmontalvo> present+ Daniel
17:04:01 <knights> Zakim, next item
17:04:01 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- -> New Issue Triage https://tinyurl.com/5938j5d5 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:04:14 <knights> spectranaut_: The first issue from Scott
17:04:37 <knights> ...this came out of editor's meeting, triaging old issues and there's an old issue about radio group. This is a broader issue.
17:05:12 <knights> ...Issue on ARIA #2180 consider loosening requirements for naming certain container elements
17:05:28 <knights> ...the next issue on html-aam
17:05:33 <knights> ...Scott already responded
17:05:43 <fofila> fofila has joined #aria
17:05:45 <knights> ...Does this need further discussion?
17:06:15 <knights> keithamus: I can poke at it a little because the reasoning around the other elements is kind of interesting it's something that is regularly authored
17:06:35 <knights> ...title and meta generally live in the head; I understand that slot is designed to be equivalent of that
17:06:39 <knights> ...feels weird to prohibit role on ti
17:06:54 <knights> ...Don't know if this is something this group necessarily needs to champion alleviating that
17:07:01 <knights> ...or something that HTML should be doing
17:07:11 <knights> spectranaut_: Is this something we should talk about in ARIA WG?
17:07:52 <knights> ...I don't use slot as an element, it probably made more sense in the past if slot was treated as generic instead of nothing space as it's supposed to be
17:08:07 <knights> ^ scotto
17:08:22 <knights> scotto: Need explicit parent and child relationships
17:08:41 <knights> scotto: Probably not on us, or could say to HTML to treat this as generic or none
17:08:55 <BGaraventa> BGaraventa has joined #aria
17:08:59 <knights> ...slot isn't supposed to be used by authors, don't put roles on it, has to be a really good reason to undo that
17:09:25 <BGaraventa> present+ BGaraventa
17:09:28 <knights> keithamus: It's totally justified
17:10:01 <knights> ...what is the use case we would need on slot that couldn't be solved by having the slot going into the appropriate container element
17:10:09 <knights> ...what problem is this solving to undo intended use of element?
17:10:18 <knights> keithamus: I had stickiness around tab list
17:10:37 <knights> ...and trying to find intersection of API where we have a tab list element, use a slot to provide some of it but otherwise does the sensible thing
17:10:58 <knights> ...can I customise this and that
17:11:04 <knights> ...got a bit tricky to manage that
17:11:28 <knights> ...someone said they wanted to customise this bit and turn it into a slot; a subtle failure carried over and difficult to refactor with all the feature requests
17:11:43 <knights> ...awkward experience generally; assignment failure so browsers can do more to say don't put roles in slots
17:11:51 <knights> spectranaut_: sounds like there's more to discuss
17:12:10 <knights> ...next item, HTML 545
17:12:27 <knights> scotto: This follows from our CSS AM conversation the other day
17:12:39 <knights> ... we want to spec out the new CSS anchor positioning property to come with defaults
17:12:47 <knights> ...we don't have spec to put that in until a CSS AIM
17:12:51 <knights> ...maybe just goes into HTML AIM
17:12:59 <knights> ...or HTML AIM becomes HTML and CSS AIM
17:13:12 <knights> ...we need to track it and put it into this spec until there's a better place for it
17:13:14 <knights> spectranaut_:
17:13:19 <knights> Put an agenda on it^
17:13:28 <knights> Zakim, next item
17:13:28 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- -> New PR Triage https://tinyurl.com/y8kwvxub -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:13:33 <knights> spectranaut_:
17:13:40 <knights> This is just an editorial for MathML
17:13:51 <knights> Zakim, close this item
17:13:51 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
17:13:52 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:13:52 <Zakim> 3. -> WPT Open PRs https://github.com/search?q=repo%3Aweb-platform-tests%2Fwpt+is%3Aopen+label%3Awai-aria%2Caccname&type=pullrequests [from agendabot]
17:14:01 <knights> Zakim, next item
17:14:01 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- -> WPT Open PRs https://github.com/search?q=repo%3Aweb-platform-tests%2Fwpt+is%3Aopen+label%3Awai-aria%2Caccname&type=pullrequests -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:14:17 <knights> spectranaut_: There are no open/new ones this week
17:14:23 <knights> Zakim, close this item
17:14:23 <Zakim> agendum 3 closed
17:14:24 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:14:24 <Zakim> 4. -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates [from agendabot]
17:14:32 <Theo-MSFT> Theo-MSFT has joined #ARIA
17:14:39 <Theo-MSFT> present+
17:14:40 <cyns> cyns has joined #aria
17:14:41 <knights> spectranaut_: About the deep dive, we have one scheduled for next week, 23rd
17:14:45 <knights> ...aria-notify update
17:14:51 <knights> ...there's an event in the calendar
17:14:58 <knights> ...is there any other deep dives to plan?
17:15:23 <knights> ...James is out for the next month
17:15:42 <knights> Zakim, close this item
17:15:42 <Zakim> I do not know what agendum had been taken up, knights
17:15:46 <knights> Zakim, next item
17:15:46 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:16:02 <jamesn> zakim, close this item
17:16:02 <Zakim> agendum 4 closed
17:16:03 <knights> Thank you!
17:16:04 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:16:04 <Zakim> 5. -> WAI-ARIA 1.1: Cell and gridcell https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/79 [from agendabot]
17:16:07 <jamesn> zakim, next item
17:16:07 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- -> WAI-ARIA 1.1: Cell and gridcell https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/79 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:16:28 <knights> spectranaut_: Next issue is an old one, #79 in aria repo
17:16:32 <knights> ...cell and gridcell issue
17:16:45 <knights> ...there was a decision to deprecate gridcell once they are treated equivalently
17:17:01 <knights> ...is there really a need to deprecate, or tell authors to use cell or gridcell within the context of a grid
17:17:04 <knights> ...how does the group feel about that
17:17:10 <knights> ...silence
17:17:13 <knights> ...agreement?
17:17:19 <cyns> seems fine!
17:17:20 <knights> scotto: Silence is roaring agreement
17:17:33 <knights> scotto: Agree to do that
17:17:35 <knights> And make it clear in the spec
17:17:50 <knights> If you do use a cell in a gridcell, there are attributes available to you but not if use a cell outside of a table
17:17:53 <knights> ...be clear in the spec on that
17:18:07 <knights> @jamesn Do we have the same attributes to cell and gridcell right now?
17:18:10 <knights> scotto: No
17:18:21 <knights> ...gridcell for instance allows for aria-selected, but cell does not
17:19:06 <knights> ...that's why it would be quicker to just say in a definition that roles are interchangeable
17:19:19 <knights> ...make it clear you can't put aria-selected on a cell in a table
17:19:26 <knights> jamesn: sounds like some work to do around that
17:19:47 <knights> scotto: Interested in reviewing it, not doing the work
17:20:44 <knights> thinkbulecount2
17:21:12 <knights> spectranaut_: Moving on next item
17:21:15 <knights> Zakim, next item
17:21:15 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- -> ARIA should clarify distinction between “contents exposed as descendant text nodes” vs “name from contents” (Was: listitem should include name from Contents
17:21:18 <Zakim> ... or name prohibited) https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2160 and -> td, th naming doesn't align with ARIA -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:21:36 <knights> spectranaut_: jcraig was on a meeting last week and we decided to discuss larger issue
17:21:44 <knights> ...does anyone want to champion the discussion
17:21:52 <knights> ...this is #2160 aria clarify distinction
17:22:09 <knights> jamesn: I think we should punt it til James is back
17:22:17 <knights> Zakim, next item
17:22:17 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- -> Document interop of misspelled aria-labeledby and its conflict resolution https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2093 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:22:32 <knights> spectranaut_: #2093 aria-labeledby misspelled
17:22:47 <knights> ...we did ask Rahim, he is not on the call but we can discuss this
17:22:57 <knights> ...asked for a few more tests of order precedence of the two versions of aria-labelledby
17:23:45 <knights> ...non-standard spelling tests pass all of browsers except Firefox since it doesn't support this non-standard spelling with the labeledby
17:23:50 <scotto> q+
17:23:53 <knights> jamesn: I think it does support, just that the preference/order is different
17:24:09 <knights> spectranaut_: Looks like Firefox fails on div with role group is labelled by ARIA by non-standard spelling
17:24:17 <knights> jamesn: I thought all engines support it
17:24:22 <knights> spectranaut_: Looks like it doesn't support it tho
17:24:30 <knights> keithamus: is it flagged?
17:24:47 <knights> ...is it within Firefox patched but under feature flag
17:25:03 <knights> spectranaut_: I think it would be linked to an issue but I don't see one
17:25:29 <knights> spectranaut_: Firefox's implementation is either off or very incomplete
17:25:41 <knights> ...not supported in Firefox, but other tests important to look at
17:25:55 <knights> ...link labelled by aria-labelledby supercedes aria-labeledby
17:26:12 <knights> jamesn: I'm interested in a test where they reverse the order
17:26:37 <knights> scotto: Rahim did comment that he added more tests
17:26:49 <knights> ...It does seem that there needs to be a decision
17:27:01 <knights> ...we either treat aria-labeledby the same as the correct spelling
17:27:05 <knights> ...essentially just a synonym
17:27:18 <knights> ...these tests show that there is an order of preference where correct spelling takes precedent over the other
17:27:33 <knights> ...in this case can't say it's a synonym, its first instance should be used, additional instance ignored -- consistently
17:27:57 <knights> ...we need to make browsers fix it so it's consistent, or this spec needs to be updated to duplicate aria-labelledby and add this additional spelling with order of precedence
17:28:04 <knights> spectranaut_: No one on queue?
17:28:07 <knights> jamesn: I hate this
17:28:24 <knights> ...don't we have better things to do than fix author errors?
17:28:46 <sarah> q+
17:28:48 <knights> spectranaut_: What is the easiest way forward in terms of documenting and fixing?
17:28:58 <knights> ...aria-labeledby is fallback
17:29:03 <knights> ...and movve on
17:29:15 <knights> scotto: doesn't resolve the dual declaration because it happens
17:29:40 <knights> spectranaut_: In terms of browser implementation it's easier than keeping track of order by the time you process these attributes
17:29:49 <knights> keithamus: the parser will collect attributes as it hits them I think
17:29:55 <knights> ...I agree with your solution though
17:30:03 <knights> spectranaut_: Isn't the case that browsers already implemented what I discussed?
17:30:20 <knights> ...if aria-labelled is after aria-labeled, it's still used by Chrome and Safari that implement this spelling
17:30:35 <knights> scotto: That's a different way as a path forward
17:30:49 <knights> ...there's an order of precedence where the correct spelling is higher in the algorithm
17:30:55 <knights> ...where are people going to look for it
17:31:04 <spectranaut_> q?
17:31:06 <knights> cyns: important that it's consistent behaviour across browsers
17:31:11 <spectranaut_> ack scotto
17:31:14 <spectranaut_> ack sarah
17:31:21 <knights> sarah:
17:31:26 <knights> Do we have to do anything about this? ^
17:31:27 <Theo-MSFT> Why is this not just caught in linters? Why are we fixing misspellings in the spec?
17:31:36 <knights> ...I can misspell aria-labelledby a number of ways
17:31:47 <knights> ...not out of real of author mistakes
17:31:55 <keithamus> q+
17:31:55 <knights> ...just let browser handle error as they want to
17:32:00 <spectranaut_> q?
17:32:06 <knights> cyns: Americans hate the way it's spelled
17:32:30 <knights> pkra: If people think this should be a synonym
17:32:42 <knights> ...this is invalid aria syntax, but otherwise, just make it a synonym
17:32:44 <Theo-MSFT> I was saying the same thing as Sarah, Peter above.
17:32:51 <knights> sarah: Much less confusing to have one way of doing things and not 2
17:32:54 <cyns> +1 to synonym
17:33:05 <knights> keithamus: Totally valid to pick one even if it's not ideal spelling, problem is we have precedence today
17:33:11 <knights> ...there's inconsistency in browsers
17:33:15 <knights> ...maybe we need to determine that instead
17:33:29 <knights> ...discussion to Chrome/Webkit to unchip labelled by one l
17:33:36 <knights> ...or we should ratify the semantics of what it is
17:33:47 <knights> ...neither here nor there but that is the conclusion we need to come to in this group
17:33:55 <cyns> q+
17:34:01 <knights> ...until someone specifies it, we just have to make a call and tell the browsers
17:34:02 <spectranaut_> ack keithamus
17:34:02 <jamesn> q+
17:34:05 <spectranaut_> ack cyns
17:34:10 <keithamus> q+
17:34:14 <knights> cyns: What if we say there are synonyms
17:34:17 <spectranaut_> ack jamesn
17:34:21 <knights> [missed]
17:34:31 <sarah> q+
17:34:33 <knights> jamesn: What about the IDL? Synonym with the IDL as well?
17:34:39 <cyns> synonyms, but if they point to different values THAT's an author error
17:34:50 <knights> ...I think this is going to set up a whole world of hurt down the line
17:34:53 <spectranaut_> q?
17:34:59 <spectranaut_> ack keithamus
17:35:11 <knights> keithamus: Having undefined behaviour in my opinion sets the scenario that the browser will defend the behaviour
17:35:19 <knights> ...we can define not to have this; unchip labeledby
17:35:27 <spectranaut_> q+
17:35:29 <knights> ...if we go ahead and say it's undefined, it probably means browsers will copy Chrome
17:35:45 <knights> ...we can totally undefined things if we declare it as an author error and have Chrome do a warning to say it's misspelled
17:35:49 <spectranaut_> ack sarah
17:35:59 <knights> sarah: I like what keithamus said, have it documented as an author error
17:36:03 <knights> ...I don't like synonyms
17:36:07 <spectranaut_> q-
17:36:18 <knights> ...We already have a number of those things on the spec
17:36:31 <Theo-MSFT> +1 to Sarahs point about synonyms.
17:36:35 <cyns> q+
17:36:43 <knights> ...I really want to avoid introducing a misspelling it makes it harder
17:36:45 <spectranaut_> ack cyns
17:36:50 <knights> cyns: I don't know if it's semi-kosher or misspelling
17:37:03 <knights> ...there are two ways that English spells this word and would be nice not to have this situation
17:37:07 <scotto> q+
17:37:20 <spectranaut_> ack scotto
17:37:20 <knights> ...I don't like it being undefined but don't like requiring the UK spelling
17:37:23 <knights> scotto: I think we're stuck with this
17:37:30 <knights> ...I don't see any browser unshipping this
17:38:29 <knights> ...for this, I can imagine far more problematic if overnight controls that did have accessible names no longer do
17:38:35 <cyns> +1
17:38:37 <knights> ...browsers won't unship this
17:39:03 <knights> spectranaut_: There are three proposals, one is to reverse this trend
17:39:09 <knights> ...some advocates against
17:39:15 <knights> ...other proposals: adding a synonym
17:39:20 <knights> ...the other is adding a special case
17:39:27 <knights> ...correct spelling preferred over the other
17:39:30 <knights> ...anyone against?
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17:40:13 <knights> scotto: I don't have strong opinions of either, if it's just noted that aria-labelledby is the proper and labeledby is an author error that is respected, I think there needs to be a note in every applicable spec to make people aware of that order of preference
17:40:25 <knights> ...if aria just wanted to say it's supported but authors are wrong, I'd be fine with that
17:40:51 <knights> sarah: I have nothing against defining the browser fallback
17:40:56 <knights> ...just not the synonym in the spec
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17:41:06 <knights> CoryJoseph: I kind of like what is being said
17:41:23 <knights> ...we define what is the correct spelling but can use this other spelling but it is out of spec
17:41:41 <knights> keithamus: My preference would be, let's try to unship this but how deep is the problem
17:41:59 <jamesn> q+
17:42:03 <spectranaut_> ack jamesn
17:42:05 <knights> ...having it as a synonym seems to be giving us a load of work for little gain
17:42:35 <knights> jamesn: I think that the general consensu is to put it in author handling errors section as a special case
17:42:43 <knights> spectranaut_: I was going to suggest as well
17:42:53 <knights> ...to reply to keithamus , not sure if we can unship if it's being used
17:42:58 <knights> keithamus: We kind of can
17:43:08 <knights> ...we can see just what the usage is
17:43:15 <knights> ...provide things like console warnings
17:43:24 <knights> ...push out to axe to tell you that this is a failure
17:43:31 <knights> ...to the point where browsers consider removing it as an attribute
17:43:37 <knights> cyns: I'm strongly opposed to doing that
17:43:49 <knights> scotto: I hear what you're saying keithamus, but I worry
17:43:54 <knights> ...some data is better than no data
17:43:59 <Theo-MSFT> what do we do for other areas like Color/Colour?
17:44:06 <knights> ...everytime I see collection of data, it always skews away from accessibility improvements
17:44:31 <knights> scotto: You can't get the data from behind logins, for all the heavy apps that have aria spackled on, we don't get those numbers
17:45:03 <knights> ...it becomes a big issue, data can't indicate how big of a problem it could be, and when it does come, it will take people by surprise
17:45:21 <knights> cyns: The work is happening
17:45:25 <pkra> q+
17:45:44 <knights> keithamus: I think that's the takeaway, if we're not interested in unshipping it, we should be interested in specifying it precisely the mechanics for which it operates
17:45:54 <knights> spectranaut_: There seems to be a general move forward with author error
17:45:58 <pkra> q-
17:46:00 <knights> ...anyone interested in specifying this
17:46:24 <katez> katez has joined #aria
17:46:28 <knights> keithamus: Yeah, sure
17:46:50 <knights> Zakim, next item
17:46:50 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- -> Values table for aria-multiselectable/aria-current are missing "undefined" https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2176 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:47:08 <knights> spectranaut_: It seems this is also from Rahim
17:47:34 <knights> ...straightforward solution or?
17:47:41 <knights> ...should we look at how this is implemented?
17:48:35 <knights> ...work is being done by Rahim to correct this language
17:48:41 <knights> ...anyone see reason not to do this change?
17:49:06 <knights> sarah: I'm not sure
17:49:14 <knights> ...False and undefined are equivalent
17:49:22 <knights> ...can I review it?
17:49:34 <knights> spectranaut_: You can take a closer look
17:49:51 <knights> Zakim, next item
17:49:51 <Zakim> agendum 9 -- -> Clarify "undefined" assignment for a state/property as the value (not the string) https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2177 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:50:22 <knights> sarah: I've read this recently
17:50:40 <knights> ...there are places in the spec where undefined is in quotations, instead of actual value of undefined
17:50:54 <knights> ...the spec is ambiguous and misleading
17:51:04 <keithamus> keithamus has joined #aria
17:51:08 <knights> ...implies that the string undefined is equivalent to the value undefined
17:51:29 <knights> ...we should fix it if it's not equivalent, or be more clear
17:51:53 <knights> sarah: The string undefined is not equivalent, I find
17:52:09 <knights> ...you can try that  test page on different browsers and got the same results
17:52:18 <knights> ...string undefined is defined as a string
17:52:22 <knights> ...it's different on Linux
17:52:37 <knights> ...Linux is doing things differently but Windows and Mac is undefined
17:52:50 <knights> spectranaut_: Confused why it would be different on Linux
17:53:07 <knights> ...so sounds like the string undefined should not be considered undefined
17:53:23 <knights> sarah: Everything seems aligned and doing the same thing that string undefined is not the same as the value undefined
17:53:31 <knights> ..if anyone else thinks we shouldn't go there
17:53:56 <knights> spectranaut_: "Passes" in the table -- what does that mean?
17:54:08 <knights> sarah: Rahim might have just passed it as a [missed]
17:54:18 <knights> spectranaut_: Anyone else want to weigh in on this?
17:54:27 <knights> scotto: I agree we need more answers to what is being tested; what sarah said
17:54:37 <knights> spectranaut_: We can just record that the string undefined should not be considered undefined
17:54:47 <knights> ...that's the conclusion we want to to go with
17:55:05 <knights> sarah: If anyone wants to test the browser, you can test the fiddle on your machine
17:55:15 <knights> Zakim, next item
17:55:15 <Zakim> agendum 10 -- -> Old issue triage! https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues?page=16&q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:55:26 <knights> spectranaut_: That was our agenda
17:55:43 <knights> scotto: Might we have the agenda for next week
17:55:54 <knights> ...keep the meeting light to get to triaging
17:56:02 <knights> jamesn: If we have anything urgent coming up
17:56:11 <knights> scotto: It's the internet, everything is urgent
17:56:18 <knights> jamesn: Trying to find times on the agenda for things like that
17:56:19 <Francis_Storr> present+
17:56:44 <knights> Zakim, end meeting
17:56:45 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been knights, pkra, sarah, katez, Summer, Adam_Page, CoryJoseph, keithamus, Daniel, BGaraventa, Theo-MSFT, Francis_Storr
17:56:47 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
17:56:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/16-aria-minutes.html Zakim
17:56:55 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, knights; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
17:56:55 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria
17:57:04 <knights> Ok!
18:03:59 <bkardell_> bkardell_ has joined #aria