IRC log of adapt on 2024-05-14

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/05/14-adapt-irc

14:02:52 [Zakim]

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please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), janina

14:03:05 [janina]

Meeting: Adapt Teleconference

14:03:11 [janina]

Date: 14 May 2024

14:04:02 [janina]

present+

14:04:03 [matatk]

present+

14:04:04 [Abhinav]

present+

14:04:08 [matatk]

rrsagent, make minutes

14:04:09 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/14-adapt-minutes.html matatk

14:04:16 [janina]

topic: WKD

14:04:32 [janina]

scribe+

14:04:44 [janina]

matatk: Little to report just now ...

14:05:05 [janina]

matatk: Suggests a quick read of last meeting (with COGA) to consider followups

14:05:27 [janina]

matatk: Have not yet had opportunity to followup with the AC meeting person who expressed WKD concern

14:08:49 [Russell]

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present+

14:10:37 [matatk]

scribe+

14:11:16 [matatk]

Abhinav: Happy with presentation; no specific questions for COGA.

14:12:19 [matatk]

janina: I think they were saying that it was not critical for WKDs to be discoverable from the current page only, rather than site-wide, particularly if the toolbar icon is badged. Though some top-level WKDs are important, like help. What does everyone think?

14:13:15 [janina]

Abhinav: Want to understand who's our target user?

14:13:46 [janina]

Abhinav: By definition tWK are site wide

14:14:37 [janina]

matatk: Believe it's machine to machine; so user agent can present appropriate to user -- in a form the user prefers

14:14:56 [janina]

matatk: Yes, the ietf wk are site wide, but we're looking at how to help people navigate

14:15:26 [janina]

matatk: we believe the ietf is useful, but we might take another approach, e.g. rhel with added values

14:15:52 [janina]

matatk: that would be discovered from current page

14:16:47 [janina]

matatk: We wanted COGA to understand how important site wide is to them

14:16:58 [janina]

matatk: Don't believe we have a clear answer from them

14:19:27 [janina]

Abhinav: expresses concern about maintaining rhel

14:19:32 [janina]

matatk: yes

14:19:53 [janina]

matatk: Don't believe we're saying we want to switch to rhel now

14:20:22 [janina]

matatk: But, yes. Browser would need to parse; and site would need to maintain

14:20:53 [janina]

matatk: Most people I've discussed with have had concerns about IETF; but seem sanguine about maintaining page content

14:21:27 [janina]

matatk: Concerned that using both approaches might confuse users

14:22:19 [janina]

matatk: A bit difficult to understand now, but we need to explore a bit more; would people understand this isn't a complete list for the site?

14:23:07 [matatk]

janina: I've been using 'IETF' for well-known URLs (side-wide) and 'rel' for in-page.

14:23:24 [matatk]

janina: I'm not sure the user should know/care whether the approach underneath is IETF or rel

14:23:32 [matatk]

q+

14:24:07 [janina]

Abhinav: So machine to machine, but some kind of option to provide visibility to the user? Any problem with that?

14:25:10 [janina]

matatk: Problem with user not caring which approach agree from the underlying tech

14:25:33 [janina]

matatk: Problem, if we use both and user has no way of knowing and the list will be different on different pages

14:28:25 [janina]

matatk: matatk: Will ask whether IETF folks might be amenable to a small feature upgrade, i.e. a directory

14:29:34 [matatk]

s/but some kind of option to provide/I proposed a syntax to provide/

14:29:38 [matatk]

rrsagent, make minutes

14:29:39 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/14-adapt-minutes.html matatk

14:30:26 [matatk]

Abhinav: My understanding is that the content served at the well-known URLs is up to us, so we have flexibility on that.

14:30:41 [matatk]

matatk: ACK; let's check the spec.

14:31:09 [janina]

matatk: ack to Abhinav

14:33:31 [janina]

Abhinav: concerned we may get a more complex set; better look if we massage appropriately

14:34:42 [matatk]

topic: Synbols (issue 240)

14:35:04 [matatk]

subtopic: News from COGA

14:35:13 [matatk]

janina: E A Draffan was on the call yesterday and we got into symbols.

14:35:20 [matatk]

rrsagent, make minutes

14:35:21 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/14-adapt-minutes.html matatk

14:35:50 [matatk]

janina: I tested the theory as to whether the Unicode approach would be adequate. We had to separate out the concepts of user agent and authoring content.

14:36:18 [matatk]

janina: The UAs want the simplest way to display what they're going to display without having to read another registry of data values. That was resolved quickly.

14:36:28 [matatk]

janina: The concern that was expressed was on the authoring side.

14:38:19 [matatk]

janina: E A wasn't convinced that any non-expert could author the content. I said that's probably right - you can't rely on a computer tool to do perfect translations. If you're doing this on a word-by-word basis I agree. But asked what about chapter titles in videos? Is there reasonable expectation that it would deliver benefits to people there

14:38:19 [matatk]

then it's worth doing. Note our remit came from COGA.

14:38:39 [matatk]

janina: Also we are focusing on specific use cases like chapter titles, procedural content, etc.

14:39:04 [matatk]

janina: That was pretty-much signed off on - I thought I should send some links, like to issue 240 - any others?

14:41:47 [Lionel_Wolberger]

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present+

14:42:21 [Lionel_Wolberger]

rrsagent, make minutes

14:42:23 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/14-adapt-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger

14:42:34 [matatk]

matatk: Is 240 the best issue - could lead down technical rabbit hole - especially if use case already validated?

14:42:45 [matatk]

janina: Maybe we should invite E A to this call?

14:43:08 [janina]

matatk: Notes we're currently unable to hear Russell

14:43:22 [Lionel_Wolberger]

scribe+

14:43:25 [janina]

matatk: Good idea is set up a conversation -- invite to a call?

14:43:41 [Lionel_Wolberger]

matatk: (Noting that Russel's audio is not working, cannot hear him.)

14:44:00 [Lionel_Wolberger]

matatk: We need very specific questions for EA

14:44:03 [janina]

janina: lionel: Russell has no mic at the moment

14:45:14 [Lionel_Wolberger]

s/UAs/User Agents

14:45:21 [Lionel_Wolberger]

rrsagent, make minutes

14:45:22 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/14-adapt-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger

14:46:07 [Lionel_Wolberger]

janina: What was significant to the discussion yesterday is that we are not trying to write a symbol above every word, that is not what we are building

14:46:17 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... they mentioned an issue paper that they could not locate.

14:47:37 [Lionel_Wolberger]

matatk: We should put on the agenda, this follow-up with EA

14:49:16 [Abhinav]

1) RFC 8615 on Well-Known URIs can be found at https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/pdfrfc/rfc8615.txt.pdf

14:49:17 [Abhinav]

2) Section 3 gives good details

14:49:17 [Abhinav]

3) There is paragraph:

14:49:17 [Abhinav]

"Note that this specification defines neither how to determine the

14:49:18 [Abhinav]

hostname to use to find the well-known URI for a particular

14:49:18 [Abhinav]

application, **nor the scope of the metadata discovered by

14:49:18 [Abhinav]

dereferencing the well-known URI**; both should be defined by the

14:49:19 [Abhinav]

application itself."

14:49:19 [Abhinav]

4) Apologies for commenting between different discussion....

14:51:53 [Lionel_Wolberger]

rrsagent, make minutes

14:51:55 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/14-adapt-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger

14:53:35 [matatk]

Thanks Abhinav, re the WK info

14:53:41 [matatk]

Here is my mock-up for 240: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-adapt/2024May/0006.html

15:09:48 [Lionel_Wolberger]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:09:50 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/14-adapt-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger

15:10:01 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, end meeting

15:10:01 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been janina, matatk, Abhinav, Russell, Lionel_Wolberger

15:10:03 [Zakim]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

15:10:04 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/14-adapt-minutes.html Zakim

15:10:09 [Zakim]

I am happy to have been of service, Lionel_Wolberger; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye

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