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13:56:28 <cpn> Meeting: MEIG monthly meeting
13:56:36 <cpn> Chair: Chris_Needham
13:56:40 <cpn> scribe+ cpn
13:58:25 <cpn> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/0e4ea971-e983-47fa-8372-534411a7bf56/
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14:00:49 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Chris_Needham, Song_Xu, Chris_Lorenzo, Francois_Daoust
14:01:07 <kaz> present+ Hiroki_Endo, Hisayuki_Ohmata, Tatsuya_Igarashi
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14:02:43 <kaz> q+
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14:03:06 <kaz> present+ Andreas_Tai
14:03:32 <kaz> present+ Kinji_Matsumra, Piers_O'Hanlon
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14:03:53 <JohnRiv> present+
14:03:56 <kaz> q-
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14:05:18 <cpn2> scribe+ cpn2
14:05:25 <Igarashi> present+
14:06:22 <cpn2> Topic: Welcome
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14:06:58 <kaz> scribe+
14:06:59 <cpn2> ChrisN: Welcome, this is the first meeting for a while, hope to maintain regular meeting schedule
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14:07:16 <kaz> ChrisN: agenda for today
14:07:18 <kaz> ... a lot topics
14:07:34 <kaz> ... launching web apps on TV devices
14:07:42 <kaz> ... media content metadata cg proposal
14:07:49 <kaz> ... media wg updates
14:07:55 <kaz> ... TPAC 2024 plans
14:08:10 <kaz> ... if you think about potential agenda items, very welcome
14:08:16 <kaz> ... anything else for today?
14:08:18 <song_xu> q+
14:08:22 <kaz> ack s
14:08:33 <kaz> song: there is media workshop
14:08:40 <kaz> ... in a few weeks
14:08:53 <kaz> ... Francois supposed to be there to give some talk
14:09:01 <kaz> ... just wanted to remind
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14:09:22 <kaz> ... hopefully open for attendees from various areas
14:09:34 <kaz> chrisN: if it's open, we can join it
14:09:36 <kaz> ... tx!
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14:09:50 <kaz> topic: Launching Web applications on TV devices
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14:10:12 <kaz> chrisN: ChrisL generated a demo video
14:10:21 <kaz> ... simpler approach
14:10:31 <kaz> (ChrisL's video)
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14:11:16 <kaz> chrisL: what happens is testing on one device
14:11:31 <kaz> ... Chrome normal development flow
14:11:46 <kaz> ... next, Raspberry pi on my dek
14:11:47 <piers8> Is there a link to the slides?
14:11:52 <kaz> ... just set URL
14:12:06 <kaz> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1xUWB1B0MfANlwWJKfXD73HOyHqNFDIxKASG-d5d3i8E/edit#slide=id.p
14:12:17 <kaz> (pdf tbd)
14:12:27 <piers8> thanks
14:12:46 <kaz> chrisL: full test environment similar with TV devices
14:13:01 <kaz> ... can enable the developer mode
14:13:13 <kaz> ... next LG TV
14:13:40 <kaz> ... WebOS simulator
14:13:51 <kaz> ... open up a directory for you
14:14:00 <kaz> (TV remote simulator also)
14:14:14 <kaz> chrisL: window.location.href to specify the URL
14:14:24 <kaz> ... pretty good experience
14:14:51 <kaz> ... the other thing is TV app experience simulating the behavior
14:15:10 <kaz> ... (loaded texture count increases)
14:15:29 <kaz> ... now move ahead to "Simulator Installation"
14:15:48 <kaz> ... system requirements: Windows, Linux, MacOS
14:16:05 <kaz> ... LG provides this WebOS tool
14:16:20 <kaz> ... (shows the step for the installation)
14:16:26 <kaz> ... create a web app
14:16:40 <kaz> ... hosted app
14:16:50 <kaz> ... bundled app
14:17:06 <kaz> ... first go to the LG store
14:17:13 <kaz> ... login your email and password
14:17:23 <kaz> ... developer mod app is good
14:17:39 <kaz> ... using the CLI, you can find smooth instructions
14:17:47 <kaz> ... packages of the Web Apps
14:17:58 <kaz> ... install the IPK
14:18:06 <kaz> ... then run the web app
14:18:21 <kaz> ... Chromium 68 or larger
14:18:50 <kaz> ... Windows PC can also simulate the behavior
14:19:02 <kaz> ... this is quite of the process
14:19:16 <kaz> ... instructions are clear
14:19:27 <kaz> ... now moving on Tizen
14:19:39 <kaz> ... for Samsung
14:19:52 <kaz> ... two separate URLs
14:20:17 <kaz> ... (show "installing applications")
14:20:34 <kaz> ... tizen studio and web apps
14:20:40 <kaz> ... only a few hours
14:20:48 <kaz> ... one of the big issues is documentation
14:21:03 <kaz> ... available at docs.tizen.org
14:21:20 <kaz> ... get my monitor on the developer mode
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14:21:48 <kaz> ... moving into an LG TV also
14:22:04 <kaz> ... and then Hisense TV has another mechanism
14:22:14 <kaz> ... hopefully this is informative
14:22:20 <kaz> chrisN: tx!
14:22:28 <kaz> ... any immediate questions?
14:22:30 <kaz> (none)
14:22:32 <song_xu> q+
14:22:35 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
14:22:38 <kaz> s/(none)//
14:22:47 <kaz> song: curious about the image
14:23:11 <kaz> ... on the Raspberry pi
14:23:21 <kaz> chrisL: version 3 (?)
14:23:43 <kaz> chrisN: a lot of variations for TV devices
14:23:55 <kaz> ... depending on the TV manufacturers
14:24:19 <kaz> ... local web server for testing purposes
14:24:42 <kaz> ... we need to engage the manufacturers how open to the common approach
14:25:05 <kaz> ... would be interesting to see it
14:25:10 <kaz> s/ (?)//
14:25:28 <kaz> s/3/3 with RDK and WPE browser/
14:25:37 <kaz> ... the stuff to explore
14:25:56 <kaz> song: WebOS is quite new fo me
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14:26:13 <kaz> ... very interesting to see it interacts with the TV
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14:26:35 <ChrisLorenzo6> https://github.com/WebPlatformForEmbedded/meta-wpe?tab=readme-ov-file#quick-start
14:26:35 <kaz> ... if the developer wants to use the mechanism, WebOS dedicated to TV manufacture
14:26:42 <kaz> ... Samsung, etc.?
14:26:51 <kaz> ... or any compatible platform?
14:27:12 <kaz> ... any special requirements for remote control?
14:27:20 <kaz> chrisN: tx
14:27:25 <kaz> ... any thoughts?
14:27:40 <kaz> chrisL: could be different key and key events
14:27:52 <kaz> ... LG TV has a magical remote like mouse
14:28:01 <kaz> ... primary goal is testing
14:28:18 <kaz> ... all the TVs have browser within them
14:28:35 <kaz> ... TV device might have only 1GB memory
14:28:42 <kaz> ... also CPU is much slower
14:28:51 <kaz> chrisN: ok
14:28:57 <kaz> ... let's follow up this
14:29:19 <kaz> ... tx!
14:29:25 <kaz> ... anything else?
14:29:30 <kaz> (none)
14:29:35 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:29:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/07-me-minutes.html kaz
14:29:52 <kaz> topic: Media Content Metadata CG proposal
14:30:02 <kaz> chrisN: any updates on the proposal, Endo-san?
14:30:14 <kaz> endo: let me share my screen
14:30:27 <kaz> ... [slide 1]
14:30:38 <kaz> ... Media Content Metadata CG Proposal
14:30:44 <kaz> scribe-
14:30:53 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:30:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/07-me-minutes.html kaz
14:31:02 <cpn> Endo: We had a breakout session at TPAC 2023
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14:31:30 <cpn> ... We confirmed that more discussion is needed in W3C. So we decided to set up a CG, an open community to exchange ideas between a wide range of industries
14:31:54 <cpn> ... The group will share best practices for media content metadata, in Japanese language, focusing on existing business issues
14:31:57 <kaz> present+ Nigel_Megitt
14:31:57 <nigel> Present+ Nigel_Megitt
14:32:01 <cpn> ... We plan to propose the group in May
14:32:22 <cpn> ... The group has two scopes: media industry collaboration and outside media industry collaboration
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14:32:54 <cpn> ... We have member candidates from industries, including 5 non-W3C members. I'll share progress with MEIG, and want to discuss with MEIG members
14:34:06 <cpn> Chris: MEIG is happy to support, look forward to seeing your progress
14:34:13 <kaz> q+
14:34:25 <kaz> ack so
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14:34:56 <cpn> Kaz: Endo-san, do you have a timeline for launching the group, at some point in May?
14:35:34 <cpn> Endo: We plan to have an event at the NHK open-house on 13 May
14:35:46 <cpn> ... We hope to propose and establish the group before that event
14:35:59 <cpn> ack kaz
14:36:20 <cpn> Topic: Spatial media requirements
14:36:28 <kaz> s/13/30/
14:36:50 <kaz> scribe+
14:37:07 <kaz> chisN: see March 19 Media WG minutes
14:37:33 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2024/03/19-mediawg-minutes.html Mar-19 minutes
14:37:47 <kaz> chrisN: just run through the topics briefly
14:38:02 <kaz> ... first, presentation on stereo video
14:38:32 <kaz> ... encoded into single video. left and right video
14:38:57 <kaz> ... pointing to the need for capability detection
14:39:13 <kaz> ... not really decoding problem but putting video element to playback
14:39:35 <kaz> ... useful for different devices with different rendering capability
14:39:38 <kaz> ... that's one thing
14:39:43 <kaz> ... next is motion safety
14:39:53 <kaz> ... immersive video on immersive device
14:40:07 <kaz> ... if there is too much motion, people will feel unwell
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14:40:24 <kaz> ... so should have some kind of metadata to detect it
14:40:50 <kaz> ... then
14:41:03 <kaz> ... another display capability detection
14:41:22 <kaz> ... on fullscreen-only capability
14:41:42 <kaz> ... fullscreen mode to be detected
14:41:57 <kaz> ... should mention the context for this
14:42:19 <kaz> ... you can essentially see the browser in a 360 environment
14:42:34 <kaz> ... for example, proposed 3D model
14:42:51 <kaz> ... kind of applying that approach to media presentation
14:43:01 <kaz> ... next
14:43:14 <kaz> ... [spatial media requirements (1/2)]
14:43:23 <kaz> ... requirements identified
14:43:32 <kaz> ... caption depth data
14:43:38 <kaz> ... extension to WebVTT
14:44:02 <nigel> q+
14:44:02 <kaz> ... or mostly applicable to captions overlapping with the video
14:44:34 <kaz> nigel: sounds like HTML thing
14:44:45 <kaz> ... already supported by TTML and CSS
14:45:00 <kaz> ... interesting and difficult is correct units
14:45:14 <kaz> ... need to identify the actual distance
14:45:34 <kaz> ... need for some better coordinate system
14:45:41 <kaz> chrisN: yeah, that's interesting
14:45:45 <kaz> ack n
14:45:50 <kaz> q+
14:46:04 <kaz> ... Z order for video
14:46:41 <kaz> ... it's more about the depth of the scene
14:46:57 <kaz> ... is this something working with others??
14:47:14 <kaz> nigel: captions cg published a report
14:47:34 <kaz> ... probably worth maybe asking them
14:47:41 <kaz> ... just circulate the document here
14:47:51 <kaz> chrisN: tx!
14:48:04 <kaz> ... pretty productive to have discussion with the immersive web community
14:48:51 <nigel> -> https://w3c.github.io/immersive-captions-cg/360-captions/ Recommendations for accessible captions in 360 degree video - Final Community Group Report 08 April 2024
14:49:15 <cpn> Kaz: I also think this is interesting and exciting. Thing about the synchronisation among objects, data, and captions would be important for 3D video and metaverse applications
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14:49:46 <cpn> ... As a basic platform for next-gen video services, I think it would be important for smart city purposes as well. They think about metaverse and city-verse as a framework
14:49:57 <atai> q+
14:50:15 <cpn> ... and digital twin platform for handling devices and virtual presentation. The direction should become more important for this spatial media discussion
14:50:32 <kaz> ack k
14:50:39 <cpn> ... Existing standards like TTML and WebVMT should be good candidates
14:50:59 <cpn> ... The smart city IG should start next month, we're wrapping up the wide review at the moment
14:51:24 <kaz> i/I also think/q-/
14:51:27 <cpn> Andreas: Chris, you mentioned MEIG previous discussion. We talked about it at TPAC Fukuoka
14:51:42 <kaz> i/I also think/scribenick: cpn/
14:51:47 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:51:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/07-me-minutes.html kaz
14:51:55 <cpn> ... In TTWG we were thinking of starting activity on immersive captions, but we didn't see enough industry interest
14:52:10 <cpn> ... Also the immersive web standards were missing, some baseline to work with to provide a solution for immersive captions
14:52:35 <cpn> ... At the time, we thought if we started something, TTWG would try to align efforts on TTML  and WebVTT so they follow the same rules
14:53:01 <cpn> ... There have been some discussions, meeting notes, an incubator issues, may be worth collecting them again
14:53:42 <atai> q+
14:53:51 <song_xu> q+
14:53:57 <cpn> ChrisN: Good idea to collect the resource. Is there growing interest in this at the moment?
14:54:14 <cpn> Atai: At NAB this came up, there seems to be some interest now
14:54:46 <cpn> Song: Regarding interest from developers in the CG, one reason could be there may not be enough members from TV developers
14:55:12 <cpn> ... The features are relevant for people for different industries, but the spatial media and TV OS topics are interesting for me
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14:56:05 <kaz> q+
14:56:14 <kaz> ack at
14:56:17 <cpn> ChrisN; We have an overview of media technologies for the web document. Could be a useful place to dosucment
14:56:18 <kaz> ack so
14:56:32 <cpn> ... Help welcome to do that!
14:56:51 <kaz> ack k
14:57:00 <cpn> Kaz: As Media WG and MEIG chair, do you want to think about joint discussion with spatial WG
14:57:47 <cpn> ChrisN: I think MEIG should do that, let's follow up on possible topics
14:57:50 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/sdw/ Spatial Data on the Web Working Group
14:59:26 <kaz> scribe+
14:59:53 <kaz> chrisN: next 360/180 viewport controls
14:59:58 <kaz> ... spatial soundscpes
15:00:10 <kaz> ... environment dimming support
15:00:26 <kaz> topic: TPAC 2024 plans
15:00:57 <kaz> chrisN: should we organize our f2f meeting during TPAC 2024 on 23-27 Sep in Anaheim, California?
15:01:06 <kaz> ... what topics to discuss?
15:01:22 <kaz> q?
15:01:24 <kaz> q+
15:02:00 <kaz> ack k
15:02:10 <cpn> Kaz: We need to respond to W3T by 20 May, so want feedback and ideas by end of next week
15:02:20 <kaz> i/We need/scribenick: cpn/
15:05:03 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:05:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/07-me-minutes.html kaz
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