IRC log of adapt on 2024-05-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:34:36 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/05/07-adapt-irc
13:34:40 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:34:41 [Zakim]
please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), janina
13:35:01 [janina]
Meeting: Adapt Task Force Teleconference
13:35:07 [janina]
Date: 07 May 2024
13:35:41 [janina]
agenda+Welcome and Announcements
13:35:57 [janina]
agenda+WKD Options Demo -- Matthew
13:36:28 [janina]
agenda+WKD Requirements Discussion with COGA Representatives
13:37:10 [janina]
agenda+Other COGA requests of Adapt
13:37:22 [janina]
agenda+Summary and Next Steps
13:37:31 [janina]
agenda+Be done
13:57:11 [janina]
Chair:Janina
13:59:37 [Lisa]
Lisa has joined #adapt
14:00:18 [matatk]
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14:00:54 [matatk]
present+
14:00:58 [matatk]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:01:00 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/07-adapt-minutes.html matatk
14:01:07 [janina]
present+
14:01:07 [Roy_]
present+
14:01:09 [Lisa]
present+
14:01:24 [janina]
zakim, next item
14:01:24 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Welcome and Announcements -- taken up [from janina]
14:01:59 [janina]
scribe+
14:02:22 [janina]
People are joining, we are waiting for more participants ...
14:03:38 [DavidSwallow]
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14:05:07 [Abhinav]
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14:05:14 [Abhinav]
present+
14:05:34 [DavidSwallow]
present+
14:06:32 [julierawe]
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14:06:35 [julierawe]
present+
14:06:37 [matatk]
agenda?
14:06:47 [matatk]
zakim, take up item 2
14:06:47 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- WKD Options Demo -- Matthew -- taken up [from janina]
14:07:06 [matatk]
https://w3c.github.io/adapt/presentations/ac2024/
14:07:37 [janina]
Matthew is presenting ...
14:08:25 [janina]
Notes this is a slightly different take from previous work on destinations ... Matthew will explain
14:15:17 [janina]
zakim, next item
14:15:17 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Welcome and Announcements -- taken up [from janina]
14:15:29 [janina]
zakim, close this item
14:15:29 [Zakim]
agendum 1 closed
14:15:30 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:15:30 [Zakim]
3. WKD Requirements Discussion with COGA Representatives [from janina]
14:15:34 [janina]
zakim, next item
14:15:34 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- WKD Requirements Discussion with COGA Representatives -- taken up [from janina]
14:15:52 [janina]
lisa: Very good implementation, would love to see more
14:16:20 [janina]
lisa: recalls first module, we didn't have the IETF spec to plug into
14:16:46 [janina]
lisa: can it extend to things like "reach human help"??
14:17:17 [janina]
lisa: what's the right page for feedback? or dealing with getting stuck?
14:17:47 [janina]
lisa: real value in adding more things so people get in the habit of things like Ctrl-P for print
14:18:10 [janina]
lisa: Ctrl-H take me to help
14:18:12 [janina]
q+
14:19:03 [janina]
lisa: notes that help is sometimes too much -- can we support smart help?
14:20:05 [janina]
matatk: Wondering
14:20:18 [janina]
david: Looks great--clear solution solving many problems
14:21:04 [janina]
david: Wonders whether there's a problem of too much leeway so can become ambiguous
14:21:11 [janina]
q?
14:21:21 [Lisa]
q+ to ask about subsite home page
14:22:09 [janina]
julie: great presentation, have been clicking through the demo site
14:22:14 [julierawe]
https://github.com/SamsungInternet/wkd-prototype
14:23:01 [janina]
julie: wonders about contact vs help?
14:24:05 [janina]
matatk: Notes that wkd will be subject to review; notes original list came from COGA; our list is a list of POSSIBLE destinations
14:24:38 [janina]
matatk: Not every site will support each available wkd; but if they have one, they CAN support it
14:25:52 [Lisa]
where is the speck?
14:29:51 [janina]
q?
14:29:56 [janina]
ack ja
14:30:00 [janina]
ack li
14:30:00 [Zakim]
Lisa, you wanted to ask about subsite home page
14:30:23 [janina]
lisa: Notes Ctrl-P is UA specific
14:30:31 [janina]
lisa:would like help to be smart
14:31:39 [janina]
lisa: asks to go back to coga before we lock in on terms
14:31:59 [janina]
q?
14:32:16 [janina]
lisa: we can coordinate time to have the keyword and the help conversations
14:32:36 [janina]
lisa: wonders about page title
14:33:11 [janina]
lisa: notes subsites of parent page is the plumbing issue
14:33:40 [janina]
lisa: Content Usable will propose a way to go home vs subsite destination
14:34:01 [janina]
q?
14:34:42 [janina]
matatk: Notes Abhinav has raised some of these same issues; good to hear there's agreement on use cases
14:34:59 [Lisa]
and maybe base it on the rest architecture
14:35:02 [Lisa]
REST
14:35:02 [janina]
matatk: Notes there's a current weakness in our IA here related to this
14:35:48 [janina]
matatk: We're unclear what the ultimate engineering approach will be; though we like the idea here for now
14:36:40 [janina]
matatk: Notes there's possibility of beginning of addressing simplification; but it's different and not supported in IETF approach
14:37:03 [janina]
matatk: We need to be careful to think not of all potential tech, but of the use cases
14:37:32 [janina]
matatk: Notes 75-80% feedback from AC was positive; but remainder had objections
14:37:50 [janina]
matatk: Need to hear from COGA to respond appropriately to the objections
14:38:19 [janina]
matatk: one implication of this approach is to request a list of wkd in one http roundtrip
14:39:15 [janina]
matatk: But is that critical? From the page one is currently on?
14:39:32 [janina]
matatk: Or can we forego that
14:39:35 [janina]
q?
14:40:29 [janina]
Lisa: How to show options for people if one doesn't do that? e.g. like bookmarks
14:41:24 [janina]
lisa: concern to rank friendliness of site -- though not all that's needed, it's helpful to have this
14:42:30 [janina]
matatk: Is this a COGA pre-identified need? But if there other nav requirements more important that we should address first? That's important for us
14:42:38 [Lisa]
link to what this would be supporting : https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#support-a-personalized-and-familiar-interface-pattern
14:42:53 [janina]
matatk: Notes this approach doesn't handle well: context; actions
14:43:13 [janina]
matatk: This approach does destination brilliantly, but not the others
14:44:28 [janina]
matatk: Also notes wkd are stateless; so Ctrl-P would not be a possibility from this approach
14:44:57 [Lisa]
https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#objective-8-support-adaptation-and-personalization-0
14:45:21 [janina]
lisa: We could improve those hooks in our next rev
14:45:26 [janina]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:45:27 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/07-adapt-minutes.html janina
14:46:23 [janina]
matatk: Referrer page should be checked when help invoked
14:46:32 [Lisa]
Q+
14:46:46 [janina]
matatk: Could help solve context help without new tech
14:47:01 [janina]
q?
14:47:14 [janina]
ack li
14:48:00 [janina]
Lisa: Like help, can we pass other data e.g. preferred communication tech -- phone, email, text
14:48:29 [janina]
Lisa: Would be OK if rev 2, but powerful to pass preferred mechanism
14:48:45 [janina]
Lisa: It's something set once and remembered by UA
14:49:13 [janina]
Lisa: Notes "help" is more than context, it's also I need a human, etc
14:49:41 [janina]
Lisa: also to support feedback mechanism
14:50:19 [janina]
Lisa: Critical to have those mechanisms
14:51:21 [Lisa]
preferd mechanisim is realy important, email, phon,e chat etc
14:51:55 [janina]
janina: Notes we can make a11y argument to include wkd so that WCAG and regs can require implementation to conform/comply
14:52:19 [janina]
maWe need to satisfy ourselves that we will not block something we want very much by going down this road
14:52:31 [Lisa]
feedback and reach a humen are two critical needs
14:54:18 [janina]
janina: Restates need for incremental discovery vs full list from any site page
14:55:12 [janina]
matthew: Discovery is an issue
14:55:25 [janina]
lisa: That's why I mention titles --
14:55:46 [janina]
lisa: Say: "home page for my subsite is here"
14:56:51 [janina]
matthew: we're committed to making this work and thanks all around!
14:57:20 [Roy_]
RRSAgent, make minutes
14:57:21 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/07-adapt-minutes.html Roy_
14:57:55 [janina]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:57:56 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/07-adapt-minutes.html janina
14:59:55 [janina]
zakim, bye
14:59:55 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees have been matatk, janina, Roy_, Lisa, Abhinav, DavidSwallow, julierawe
14:59:55 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #adapt
15:00:17 [janina]
rrsagent, bye
15:00:17 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items