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14:53:18 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/04/25-pcg-a11y-irc
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14:53:26 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, this will be pcg-a11y
14:53:27 <Zakim> ok, AvneeshSingh
14:53:43 <AvneeshSingh> present+
14:53:49 <AvneeshSingh> chair: AvneeshSingh
14:54:19 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Review of in-progress techniques documents.
14:54:42 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Issue #251: Principles document examples for nonvisual reading
14:54:58 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Issue #260: Need to harmonize Principles and Techniques on Non-Visual Reading
14:55:12 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Issue #256: Align Hazards examples
14:55:30 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Any other business.
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15:02:31 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:02:31 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Review of in-progress techniques documents. -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
15:02:40 <Madeleine> present +
15:02:42 <gautierchomel> present+
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15:02:48 <gpellegrino> present+
15:02:50 <gpellegrino> scribe+
15:02:57 <Madeleine> present+
15:03:00 <gpellegrino> AvneeshSingh: let's start with the update on ONIx
15:03:19 <AvneeshSingh> https://w3c.github.io/publ-a11y/UX-Guide-Metadata/draft/techniques/onix-metadata/index.html
15:03:37 <Madeleine> Zoom link https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81130400256?pwd=czI2WTErKzRTMnplZlhhNDhFTUJEQT09
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15:04:48 <gpellegrino> gautierchomel: on the ONIX techniques we've added charts, diagrams, accessibility. summary and Pre-recorded audio
15:06:04 <gpellegrino> ... for accessibility summary: in ONIX there are two codes for that (one for the "old" way to intend accessbility summary, one for the "new" way: the idea that should not say the same thing that are already expressed by machine-readable metadata)
15:06:33 <gpellegrino> ... so our proposal is that if in a record there is both the accessibility addendum and accessibility summary, only the first should be displayed
15:06:47 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:06:56 <gpellegrino> ... second thing is to identify the language in which the accessibility summary (or addendum) is written
15:07:06 <gpellegrino> ... to pass it to the assistive technologies
15:07:12 <gpellegrino> AvneeshSingh: any comment?
15:07:43 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #pcg-a11y
15:07:59 <gpellegrino> ... other items are "Charts, diagrams, and formulas" and "Pre-recorded audio"
15:08:11 <CharlesL> present+
15:08:14 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
15:08:20 <gpellegrino> gautierchomel: sure, all the text is there, and it can be reviewed
15:08:55 <gpellegrino> AvneeshSingh: yes, we can get feedback via the mailing list or via the issue tracker
15:09:20 <gpellegrino> AvneeshSingh: Charles do you have any update on the EPUB metadata techniques?
15:09:45 <AvneeshSingh> https://w3c.github.io/publ-a11y/UX-Guide-Metadata/draft/techniques/epub-metadata/index.html
15:10:28 <gpellegrino> CharlesL: we are using the work done for ONIX and mirroring that in the EPUB metadata world
15:11:01 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:11:01 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Issue #251: Principles document examples for nonvisual reading -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
15:11:08 <gpellegrino> .. the conformance may be tricky, but let's see
15:11:08 <AvneeshSingh> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/issues/251
15:12:06 <gpellegrino> Madeleine: the original issue was that examples in the Principles document for nonvisual reading were not aligned
15:12:26 <gpellegrino> ... now it's ok, so I think now we can close it
15:12:56 <gpellegrino> ... but there is still a question about aligning examples in the principles document with examples in the non visual reading
15:13:01 <gpellegrino> q+
15:13:12 <gpellegrino> ... ok I'm closing this issue
15:13:53 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:13:54 <gpellegrino> AvneeshSingh: question: may be there cases where the order may differ from ONIX to EPUB metadata?
15:14:07 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
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15:15:43 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:16:15 <gpellegrino> gpellegrino: I think that trying to align the order in the techniques and in the principles it doesn't make a lot of sense
15:16:22 <Madeleine> q+
15:16:24 <gpellegrino> ... the goal of the documents are different
15:16:37 <AvneeshSingh> ack madel
15:16:39 <gpellegrino> ... the order may even differ from ONIX to EPUB
15:16:45 <gpellegrino> CharlesL: I agree
15:16:58 <gpellegrino> Madeleine: I agree too
15:16:59 <gpellegrino> q+
15:17:25 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:17:25 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, AvneeshSingh
15:17:47 <gpellegrino> ... another thing is about the "unkown" value
15:17:48 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:17:54 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:17:54 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Issue #260: Need to harmonize Principles and Techniques on Non-Visual Reading -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
15:17:58 <gpellegrino> ... is it meaningful? Do we need it?
15:18:12 <AvneeshSingh> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/issues/260
15:20:15 <gautierchomel> gpellegrino: Principles states that some values can be hidden if null (unknown), but techniques must provide what to say in such case for implementers who want's to display something.
15:20:24 <CharlesL> q+
15:20:40 <gpellegrino> q+
15:20:56 <AvneeshSingh> ack char
15:21:34 <gautierchomel> CharlesL: we can addd a note in the principles to explain why order can change in techniques
15:21:51 <gpellegrino> AvneeshSingh: yes, I think that we can remove the "unknown" in the principles document, and leave it in the techniques
15:21:52 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:22:13 <gpellegrino> CharlesL: er may add a note about the order of the examples in the principles document
15:23:08 <gautierchomel> gpellegrino: i agree with Avneesh, but there may be cases where we have to say it in the principle (for the three jeys informations).
15:23:10 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:23:35 <gpellegrino> AvneeshSingh: yes for the three key information that should always be display, we'll leave the unkown
15:23:56 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:24:04 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:24:04 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Issue #256: Align Hazards examples -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
15:24:20 <AvneeshSingh> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/issues/256
15:24:21 <gpellegrino> AvneeshSingh: so: for the key information that can be hidden, we remove the "unkown" for the principles and leave them in the techniques, with a note telling that the key information can be hidden
15:26:54 <gpellegrino> gautierchomel: the problem here is that we don't have examples for the extended version of all the hazards
15:27:17 <gpellegrino> ... I made a proposal in the ticket
15:27:32 <CharlesL> q+
15:27:44 <gpellegrino> Madeleine: how many variants of hazards do we have?
15:27:46 <gpellegrino> q+
15:27:47 <gautierchomel> q+
15:28:12 <gpellegrino> Maybe we can elevate the flashing hazard
15:28:30 <gpellegrino> and then add another statement about the less common ones
15:28:33 <AvneeshSingh> ack charl
15:28:48 <gpellegrino> CharlesL: this is tricky
15:29:29 <gpellegrino> ... I think that if there is at least one hazard we should display all
15:29:51 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:32:00 <gpellegrino> CharlesL: yes, I think we can have information about multimedia in ebooks
15:32:31 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:32:39 <gpellegrino> ... I like the idea of displaying something only if there is an hazard
15:33:18 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
15:33:30 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:33:40 <gpellegrino> AvneeshSingh: I agree we should not get in too much complex specification here
15:34:20 <gpellegrino> gautierchomel: Yes, I think in most cases we'll not have hazards
15:34:56 <gpellegrino> ... I would add a note telling that hazards can be displayed both concatenated and un-concatenated (as a list)
15:35:39 <gpellegrino> ... maybe we can also update the section about filtering
15:36:27 <AvneeshSingh> ack bill
15:36:29 <gpellegrino> ... to suggest that in some cases filtering for different types of hazards
15:37:57 <gpellegrino> Bill_Kasdorf: I'm about uncomfortable with under specifying, and to hide information
15:38:53 <gpellegrino> ... I think a lot of publishers may use the "unkown" value
15:39:10 <gpellegrino> q+
15:39:21 <gpellegrino> ... and it should be displayed
15:39:57 <gautierchomel> q+
15:40:39 <gpellegrino> AvneeshSingh: we have a problem since not all hazards are specified, for example what does it mean an audio-hazard?
15:40:44 <CharlesL> q+
15:40:51 <AvneeshSingh> ack gaut
15:41:38 <gpellegrino> gautierchomel: the proposal is not to hide hazards, is only to being able to manage this section both concatenated and as list
15:41:48 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:42:42 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:42:52 <gautierchomel> gpellegrino: i suggest to check techniques that are clarifying our intention. Only EPUB with no Hazard metadata will have no information displayed.
15:42:58 <gpellegrino> CharlesL: can we tell if there is multimedia in the ebook?
15:43:11 <gautierchomel> q+
15:43:15 <gpellegrino> 1+
15:43:20 <gpellegrino> q+
15:43:36 <Madeleine> +1, as long as we can trust that metadata, which I guess we have to do
15:45:04 <AvneeshSingh> ack gautier
15:45:15 <gpellegrino> gautierchomel: I like this approach
15:45:23 <gpellegrino> ... I would like to digg into it
15:46:11 <gpellegrino> ... to check if there is multimedia before displaying it
15:46:21 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:47:19 <gpellegrino> q+
15:47:56 <gpellegrino> AvneeshSingh: in ONIX there is a way to tell if there is audio or video in the EPUB
15:48:03 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:48:40 <gpellegrino> gpellegrino: we may dig into a rabbit hole
15:48:51 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:49:25 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:49:25 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Any other business. -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
15:51:45 <gpellegrino> gautierchomel: I'm trying to setup transifex, I've asked them but they say that we cannot use it for free, since being part of W3C is not for free
15:52:21 <gpellegrino> AvneeshSingh: ok, let's continue with the JSON files
15:52:43 <CharlesL> CharlesL has left #pcg-a11y
15:53:15 <AvneeshSingh> rrsagent, make minutes
15:53:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/25-pcg-a11y-minutes.html AvneeshSingh
15:53:28 <AvneeshSingh> rrsagent, make logs public
15:55:15 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, leave
15:55:15 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been AvneeshSingh, gautierchomel, gpellegrino, Madeleine, CharlesL, Bill_Kasdorf
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