16:59:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
16:59:33 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/04/18-aria-irc
16:59:33 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:59:34 <Zakim> Meeting: ARIA WG
16:59:35 <Francis_Storr> Francis_Storr has joined #aria
16:59:38 <spectranaut_> chair: ValerieYoung
16:59:42 <spectranaut_> agendabot, find agenda
16:59:42 <agendabot> spectranaut_, OK. This may take a minute...
16:59:46 <rschwartz> rschwartz has joined #ARIA
17:00:08 <agendabot> Sorry, I did not find an agenda.
17:01:20 <aardrian> aardrian has joined #aria
17:01:22 <pkra> pkra has joined #aria
17:01:28 <scotto> scotto has joined #aria
17:01:29 <pkra> present+
17:01:41 <Francis_Storr> present+
17:01:43 <aardrian> present+
17:01:45 <Summer> present+
17:01:52 <spectranaut_> agendabot, find agenda
17:01:52 <agendabot> spectranaut_, OK. This may take a minute...
17:01:52 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/2b57854a-65cb-421e-b9e0-f9a8da31f160/20240418T130000/
17:01:52 <agendabot> clear agenda
17:01:52 <agendabot> agenda+ -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/3TYsw65
17:01:53 <agendabot> agenda+ -> New PR Triage https://bit.ly/3Q7mI9s
17:01:55 <agendabot> agenda+ -> WPT Open PRs https://bit.ly/wpt_a11y
17:01:58 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates
17:02:00 <agendabot> agenda+ -> TPAC 2024 https://www.w3.org/events/tpac/2024/
17:02:03 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Deprecation of aria-invalid as a Global property and proposed Introduction of aria-MarkedType/aria-markType https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2155 & -> Issue: CSS Highlights Not Clearly Documented in AAM https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/issues/226
17:02:07 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Clarification of when live regions are meant to be announced by AT https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2154 , -> Clarification of when a role="alert" should be announced by AT / fire an alert event https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/issues/225 , -> Clarification of when a role="alert" should
17:02:12 <agendabot> … be announced by AT / fire an alert event https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2153
17:02:15 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Question: time can have a name from author? https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2075
17:02:18 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Add nameFrom: heading steps to computation after spec addition ARIA PR #1860 is reviewed. https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/182
17:02:22 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Trim whitespace from computed accessible name/description https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/95
17:02:26 <Adam_Page> scribe: Adam_Page
17:02:30 <Adam_Page> present+
17:02:32 <Adam_Page> zakim, next item
17:02:32 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/3TYsw65 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:02:35 <scotto> present+
17:02:45 <giacomo-petri> giacomo-petri has joined #aria
17:02:48 <giacomo-petri> present+
17:03:26 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: aria#2162
17:03:26 <sarah> sarah has joined #aria
17:04:04 <Adam_Page> giacomo-petri: many websites with complex dashboards, multiple tabs — when interacting with a single card, only that card’s content is affected
17:04:20 <Adam_Page> ... wondering if it makes sense to enable users to recognize these kinds of widgets
17:04:25 <melsumner> melsumner has joined #aria
17:04:25 <dmontalvo> present+ Daniel
17:04:32 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #aria
17:04:47 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: MarioBatusic proposed something related to this: aria#1944
17:05:03 <Adam_Page> ... please review, and then put agenda label on it for follow-up
17:05:03 <katez> present+
17:05:23 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: aria#2161
17:05:24 <melsumner> present+
17:05:32 <keithamus> present+
17:05:45 <Adam_Page> ... directory deprecation should be normative
17:05:50 <CurtBellew> CurtBellew has joined #aria
17:06:25 <Adam_Page> scotto: some editorial work could be done here
17:06:50 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: let’s ask Jocelyn if she’d like to make this change
17:06:56 <Adam_Page> ... unless someone else wants it ;-)
17:07:24 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: core-aam#227
17:07:32 <Adam_Page> ... do we mark things as deprecated in aam?
17:07:40 <Adam_Page> ... we keep mappings if they exist, right?
17:08:20 <Adam_Page> @scotto: yes. I don’t disagree with this. We can just add a “deprecated” note to the existing mapping to be clear
17:08:36 <Adam_Page> s/@scotto/scotto/
17:08:48 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: aria#2160
17:09:04 <Adam_Page> ... listitem should include `nameFrom: contents`, right?
17:09:24 <Adam_Page> cookiecrook: tests assume this, but spec doesn‘t actually state it
17:09:42 <Adam_Page> ... we could either make it name prohibited, or change it to allowed from author and content
17:09:55 <Adam_Page> ... there may be more elements, but listitem was the first that came up
17:10:11 <Adam_Page> ... the downside for name prohibited is that there could be some scenarios where we want to allow authors to name
17:10:17 <Adam_Page> ... even if uncommon
17:10:27 <Adam_Page> ... there’s an odd distinction in the spec
17:10:59 <Adam_Page> ... what’s the distinction between a heading’s computed label and a heading‘s concatenated _contents_?
17:11:08 <Adam_Page> ... might be worth agenda'ing
17:11:11 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: yes
17:11:20 <Adam_Page> ... adding for future
17:11:29 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: aria#2158
17:11:37 <Adam_Page> ... allow posinset/setsize for toolbars
17:12:06 <Adam_Page> ... follow-up from discussion about mechanism to relate controls without explicit grouping
17:12:20 <Adam_Page> scotto: yep, we can talk about it more, or we can just get to work
17:12:53 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: yes, I believe there was consensus already
17:13:14 <Adam_Page> sarah: implicit indexing could be difficult/impossible
17:14:00 <Adam_Page> ... browser people will be needed for the implicit indexing part
17:14:09 <Adam_Page> aardrian: I think this makes sense
17:14:42 <Adam_Page> ... I’ll take assignment of this
17:15:02 <CurtBellew> present+
17:15:39 <Adam_Page> aardrian:will this have any relationship to the core-aam spec?
17:15:48 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: probably not, but reach out for help
17:15:59 <Adam_Page> scotto: I’m available too
17:16:21 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: aria#2157
17:16:30 <Adam_Page> ... sounds editorial
17:16:48 <Adam_Page> pkra: I looked into this and think it’s not exported
17:16:59 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: let’s leave as is then, hopefully annek will come through
17:17:05 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: aria#2156
17:17:13 <sarah> small correction on the minuting -- I wasn't being negative on the aria-posinset + toolbar thing, just wanted to suggest splitting the issue into the easy part (allowing the attrs on the roles), and the hard part (potential implicit index calculations for toolbar items)
17:17:35 <Adam_Page> ... this sounds like a straightforward editorial change
17:18:27 <Adam_Page> ... will see if Rahim would like to draft a PR
17:19:26 <Adam_Page> cookiecrook: I’ll also sync up with Rahim about this to clarify use of undefined
17:20:14 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: html-aam#543
17:20:25 <Adam_Page> scotto: this is similar to the listitem one
17:21:02 <sarah> related issue: https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2160
17:21:06 <Adam_Page> ... aria#2160
17:21:46 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: html-aam#541
17:21:53 <Adam_Page> ... clarify contextual roles and accessibility parents
17:22:01 <Adam_Page> scotto: yes, I already started work on this
17:22:22 <Adam_Page> ... this is a follow-on to another issue related to li role mapping
17:23:07 <Adam_Page> ... this example is interesting because the parser actually error corrects
17:23:15 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: okay, we’ll leave this one with you
17:23:24 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: mathml-aam#33
17:23:26 <Adam_Page> ... already discussed
17:23:29 <Adam_Page> zakim, next item
17:23:29 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- -> New PR Triage https://bit.ly/3Q7mI9s -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:23:43 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: html-aam#544
17:23:52 <Adam_Page> ... scotto already reviewed
17:24:50 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: aria#2163
17:24:56 <Adam_Page> pkra: no need for another review
17:25:00 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: let’s merge both
17:25:23 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: aria#2159
17:25:33 <Adam_Page> ... note to expand radiogroup content 'allowances'
17:25:53 <Adam_Page> scotto: should there be a way to allow association elements outside of grouping them
17:26:07 <Adam_Page> ... e.g., in HTML, you can put radio buttons wherever you want and relate them with the `name` attr
17:26:20 <Adam_Page> ... but ARIA isn’t permissive in the same way
17:27:17 <Adam_Page> ... so this PR gives more freedom to authors
17:27:32 <Adam_Page> cookiecrook: I’ll review
17:27:52 <Adam_Page> ... we can already have an ARIA radio group that points to disparate radio buttons
17:28:08 <Adam_Page> ... it’s kjnd of a junk element, but comparable to host language radio group
17:28:54 <Adam_Page> scotto: the issue I see with that is with aria-owns, the a11y tree will reflect the element structure/adjacency differently than the DOM
17:29:04 <Adam_Page> s/kjnd/kind/
17:29:10 <Adam_Page> sarah: I’ll review this too
17:29:18 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: html-aam#540
17:29:29 <Adam_Page> ... clarify li role mapping
17:29:56 <Adam_Page> scotto: if an li element is used in some arbitrary location, then it should resolve to `generic`
17:30:17 <Adam_Page> ... and if a `generic` intervenes between it and a `list`, then it should still legitimately be a `listitem`
17:30:26 <Adam_Page> cookiecrook: this aligns with bullet rendering in most browsers too
17:30:30 <Adam_Page> ... I’ll also review
17:30:34 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: anyone else?
17:30:43 <Adam_Page> sarah: I’ll review this too
17:30:49 <Adam_Page> zakim, next item
17:30:49 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- -> WPT Open PRs https://bit.ly/wpt_a11y -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:31:15 <Adam_Page> cookiecrook: I reviewed all these yesteday
17:31:40 <Adam_Page> ... for scott and Adam_Page, if you’ve committed changes based on my feedback, please request re-review
17:32:36 <Adam_Page> s/scott/scotto/
17:32:40 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: zakim, next item
17:32:55 <Adam_Page> zakim, next item
17:32:55 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:33:22 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: possible topic: should form fields in cells have names from table headers
17:33:29 <Adam_Page> aardrian: yes, I want to do this but haven’t begun
17:33:41 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: please ping when you’re ready
17:34:25 <Adam_Page> aardrian: should I file the deep dive prep as a new issue?
17:34:45 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: nah, just add a comment to aria#2148
17:34:59 <Adam_Page> ... we should schedule the deep dive once we have the explainer
17:35:16 <Adam_Page> ... can revisit scheduling it in the weekly call next week
17:35:42 <Adam_Page> zakim, next item
17:35:42 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- -> TPAC 2024 https://www.w3.org/events/tpac/2024/ -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:35:49 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: TPAC is starting to get planned
17:36:13 <aardrian> Considering attending, but cannot commit yet.
17:36:15 <Adam_Page> ... it’s in the LA area at the end of September
17:36:19 <jcraig> I plan to attend.
17:36:45 <melsumner> I still have to figure it out but I'll make every effort to attend
17:36:46 <Adam_Page> bummed that I already know I can’t attend in-person, and possibly not even virtually — I’ve got a work conflict
17:37:04 <CoryJoseph> Present+
17:37:06 <Adam_Page> MattKing: I’ll be at TPAC
17:37:13 <CoryJoseph> Planning to attend TPAC
17:37:14 <Adam_Page> Cynthia: 95% likely
17:37:18 <jcraig> present+
17:37:20 <CurtBellew> likely to attend
17:37:21 <sarah> Need to confirm, but I plan to attend
17:37:27 <giacomo-petri> Planning to attend
17:37:35 <keithamus> Unlikely due to budgets.
17:37:35 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: terrific, thanks
17:37:38 <Adam_Page> zakim, next item
17:37:38 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- -> Deprecation of aria-invalid as a Global property and proposed Introduction of aria-MarkedType/aria-markType https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2155 & -> Issue: CSS
17:37:41 <Zakim> ... Highlights Not Clearly Documented in AAM https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/issues/226 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:37:52 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: this is a two-issue topic
17:38:15 <Adam_Page> s/Cynthia/cyns/
17:38:43 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: aria#2155 — introduction of aria-MarkedType
17:39:05 <Adam_Page> DougGeoffey: I’ll ping Theo to see if he’s available to discuss
17:39:13 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: next topic
17:39:18 <Adam_Page> ... 3 issues
17:39:31 <Adam_Page> ... live regions
17:39:39 <Adam_Page> zakim, next item
17:39:39 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- -> Clarification of when live regions are meant to be announced by AT https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2154 , -> Clarification of when a role="alert" should be
17:39:42 <Zakim> ... announced by AT / fire an alert event https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/issues/225 , -> Clarification of when a role="alert" should -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:40:04 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: 3 issues with live regions
17:40:17 <Adam_Page> ... clarification for when live regions are meant to be announced
17:40:38 <Adam_Page> MattKing: being discussed right now
17:41:24 <Adam_Page> Adam_Page: about injection of live regions into DOM after load being already rendered on load
17:42:00 <Adam_Page> MattKing: this is not addressed by `atomic`?
17:42:06 <Adam_Page> cookiecrook: correct, it’s not
17:42:15 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: well-researched issue explaining the lack of clarity
17:42:47 <Adam_Page> ... the first question is: what *is* our intention
17:43:04 <Adam_Page> cookiecrook: the implementations would like to settle on this
17:43:30 <Adam_Page> s/cookiecrook/jcraig/
17:44:00 <Adam_Page> jcraig: let’s determine what implementations and AT+browser combos currently do, and then codify that
17:44:01 <cyns> cyns has joined #aria
17:44:11 <Adam_Page> ... agree with Patrick that this is under-specified
17:44:20 <Adam_Page> ... and difficult to do automated testing
17:44:21 <keithamus> q+
17:44:23 <scotto> q+
17:44:24 <sarah> q+
17:44:29 <spectranaut_> q?
17:44:41 <scotto> q-
17:44:43 <scotto> q+
17:44:50 <Adam_Page> keithamus: interested in picking this up
17:44:51 <spectranaut_> ack keithamus
17:44:57 <Adam_Page> ... and testing for it as well
17:45:07 <Adam_Page> ... I volunteered to write spec for aria-notify
17:45:13 <TheoHale> TheoHale has joined #ARIA
17:45:15 <Adam_Page> ... so there’s a strong intersection
17:45:20 <TheoHale> present+
17:45:28 <Adam_Page> jcraig: are you involved in interop meetings?
17:45:43 <Adam_Page> ... I’m gonna ask Simon Pieters to add you to that
17:46:02 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: back to the queue
17:46:03 <spectranaut_> q?
17:46:09 <spectranaut_> ack sarah
17:46:40 <Adam_Page> sarah: is there any intent to change the core-aam mappings?
17:46:54 <Adam_Page> ... browsers are kind of following the spec if you interpret it just so
17:47:15 <Adam_Page> ... is part of the purpose to use the spec to *change* what browsers are doing? or just clarification?
17:47:30 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: my reading is just clarification
17:47:39 <Adam_Page> keithamus: I agree, and we’ve discussed this
17:47:53 <Adam_Page> s/we’ve/Patrick and I have/
17:48:10 <Adam_Page> keithamus: the point is to clarify this in the spec, and hopefully aria-notify will be the ultimate improvement
17:48:22 <Adam_Page> sarah: I’m skeptical that live regions will go away
17:49:02 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: sarah, are you suggesting a change?
17:49:33 <Adam_Page> sarah: no, just wanting to point out that what we have now may not make a lot of sense but will also be fragile to change
17:49:54 <spectranaut_> ack scotto
17:50:32 <Adam_Page> scotto: I agree with jcraig that a lot of implementers are following this pattern, but they do that because of screaming from the a11y community via lots of testing to determine what works and recommend a technique
17:50:45 <jcraig> q+
17:50:47 <Adam_Page> ... to sarah’s point, if we codify that, I do think that‘s a good thing, but role="alert" is the one odd duck out
17:51:05 <Adam_Page> ... role="alert" is actually better at announcing on page load, whereas other live regions are not nearly as good
17:51:09 <Adam_Page> ... so we can call that out in the spec
17:51:13 <Adam_Page> ... there was probably a reason
17:51:14 <sarah> q+
17:51:20 <Adam_Page> ... but that’s an important detail
17:51:43 <Adam_Page> jcraig: thanks for that clarification, I do recall that alert nuance
17:52:03 <sarah> These are my tests from last year, if it's at all helpful: https://codepen.io/smhigley/pen/bGjJyyd
17:52:06 <Adam_Page> ... we should fix this, and we should create manual tests, and automated tests in chromium, gecko, webkit
17:52:13 <spectranaut_> ack jcraig
17:52:19 <Adam_Page> ... don’t want to get too far outside the scope of live regions until we have WPT coverage
17:52:29 <Adam_Page> ... but yes, it should be resolved and clarified
17:52:36 <spectranaut_> q+ mcking
17:52:40 <jcraig> ack m
17:53:06 <scotto> 1+ douggeoffray
17:53:12 <Adam_Page> MattKing: is it actually intended that role="alert" is somehow different from an equivalently coded live region that doesn’t have role="alert" on it?
17:53:17 <scotto> q+ douggeoffray
17:53:24 <Adam_Page> ... because they don’t behave the same across today’s browsers
17:53:42 <Adam_Page> ... but that is not intentional, correct?
17:54:01 <Adam_Page> jcraig: there were enough ambiguities 10-12 years ago, it’s hard to say whether it was intentional
17:54:29 <Adam_Page> MattKing: alert was meant to be a shorthand synonym
17:54:46 <Adam_Page> ... but indicate to the OS that it could do something additional, like make a sound
17:55:11 <Adam_Page> ... if we’re just codifying behavior, I would want to resolve that ambiguity and ensure that we don’t *need* to use role="alert" to get the same SR response
17:55:20 <Adam_Page> jcraig: the difference is in the a11y APIs
17:55:32 <Adam_Page> ... and their pre-existing features
17:56:10 <Adam_Page> ... all other live regions do work the same, alert is the only exception
17:56:17 <Adam_Page> sarah: I would like to propose one specific change
17:56:30 <Doug> Doug has joined #aria
17:56:55 <Adam_Page> ... keep the alert event for all APIs, but for role="status" add the wording to announce on insertion
17:57:23 <Adam_Page> ... and then to clarify for both only announce on insertion if it is *not empty*
17:57:43 <Adam_Page> ... to prevent breaking changes
17:58:24 <Adam_Page> MattKing: one thing from ARIA-AT, we are averse to treating alert differently — it has lost all its distinction
17:58:36 <Adam_Page> ... saying the word "alert", for example, is now being treated as a bug
17:59:20 <jcraig> q+
17:59:22 <Adam_Page> ... there’s a lot of user blowback on this, especially for something like a chatbot, where the user hears "alert" way too often
17:59:38 <jcraig> q+ to ask sarah why status is different from log
17:59:41 <sarah> ack me
17:59:53 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: let’s discuss TheoHale’s issue next week
18:00:22 <Adam_Page> douggeoffray: I wanted to add, this just came up in Windows, NVDA/JAWS didn’t announce a live region when Narrator did
18:00:31 <jcraig> q+ to ask why Matt why we would not fire the engine event; JAWS could ignore it or change their UI if they so choose.
18:00:36 <sarah> I think part of the benefit to spec'ing adding role=status as also announcing on insertion would be to (hopefully) cut down on authors using alerts for announcements that are not semantically alerts, but which they want to announce immediately when inserted
18:00:36 <Adam_Page> ... in Chromium today, we found out that UI implementation, it will fire on creation
18:00:41 <Adam_Page> ... and we filed a bug for that
18:00:49 <spectranaut_> q?
18:00:53 <Adam_Page> ... so that it will only announce on insertion and not creation
18:00:53 <spectranaut_> ack doug
18:01:12 <Adam_Page> jcraig: that sounds dangerous
18:01:27 <Adam_Page> douggeoffray: we were seeing inconsistent results in testing
18:01:42 <Adam_Page> s/insertion/text insertion/
18:01:49 <jcraig> ss/that sounds dangerous/it sounds dangerous to make the change in one engine, where other engine have aligned on a different behavior/
18:01:52 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: think we need to keep discussing this
18:02:02 <jcraig> ack me
18:02:02 <Zakim> jcraig, you wanted to ask sarah why status is different from log and to ask why Matt why we would not fire the engine event; JAWS could ignore it or change their UI if they so
18:02:05 <Zakim> ... choose.
18:02:16 <Adam_Page> jcraig: leaving a note for sarah and MattKing to consider
18:02:36 <Adam_Page> ... I think we would still want fire the creation event
18:02:39 <Adam_Page> ... and align the spec
18:02:51 <Adam_Page> ... and JAWS could choose to ignore if they think it’s irrelevant
18:03:51 <jcraig> s/that sounds dangerous/it sounds dangerous to make the change in one engine, where other engine have aligned on a different behavior/
18:04:02 <scotto> one thing that can be a problem is when alert is given an accname (becuase it can be named LOL) and should that count as an auto announcement, or should that be ignored until content is inserted into the alert?
18:04:34 <Adam_Page> present+
18:04:40 <Adam_Page> zakim, end meeting
18:04:40 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been pkra, Francis_Storr, aardrian, Summer, Adam_Page, scotto, giacomo-petri, Daniel, katez, melsumner, keithamus, CurtBellew, CoryJoseph,
18:04:43 <Zakim> ... jcraig, TheoHale
18:04:43 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
18:04:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/18-aria-minutes.html Zakim
18:04:52 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Adam_Page; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
18:04:52 <dmontalvo> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:04:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/18-aria-minutes.html dmontalvo
18:04:58 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria
18:05:13 <jcraig> s/other engine have aligned on a different behavior/other engines have aligned on a different behavior, and live regions are not yet testable in WPT. there's a real risk here of making the existing problems even worse across browser and screenreader combinations./
18:05:26 <jcraig> rrsagent, make minutes
18:05:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/18-aria-minutes.html jcraig
18:08:03 <Doug> JAWS/NVDA monitor live regions on text insertion, not on creation. We have cases where live regions are being created with the intended text to be spoken and JAWS/NVDA are not speaking that text but Chromium through UIA was firing a live region causing Narrator (based solely on UIA) to speak the content on creation. This caused a very different
18:08:03 <Doug> interaction based on the screen reader. After conversion with Mick from NV Access he explained the intent was to only speak on text insertion (which is what they do) and agreed that the UIA implementation was inconsistent with that intent.
18:10:54 <Adam_Page> present+ Doug
18:11:07 <Adam_Page> present+ sarah
18:11:10 <Adam_Page> present+ MattKing
18:11:15 <Adam_Page> rrsagent, make minutes
18:11:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/18-aria-minutes.html Adam_Page
18:36:55 <\join_subline> \join_subline has joined #aria
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19:53:32 <jcraig> Note for the minutes that several substitutions (scribe corrections) are listed in the minutes as "Succeeded" but the changes did not actually make it into the minutes... I'm not sure why. Please review the IRC log needed.
19:53:43 <jcraig> rrsagent, make minutes
19:53:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/18-aria-minutes.html jcraig
21:42:27 <jongund> jongund has joined #aria
23:46:37 <jongund> jongund has joined #aria