IRC log of ag on 2024-04-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:39:55 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/04/16-ag-irc
14:39:59 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:40:00 [Zakim]
Meeting: AGWG Teleconference
14:40:01 [chuck]
chair: Chuck
14:40:10 [chuck]
meeting: AGWG-2024-04-16
14:40:16 [chuck]
rrsagent, generate minutes
14:40:17 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/16-ag-minutes.html chuck
14:40:29 [chuck]
agenda+ Subgroup updates
14:40:41 [chuck]
agenda+ Exploratory Guidelines and Outcomes https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/discussions/60#discussioncomment-9072721
14:40:53 [chuck]
agenda+ Text Alternatives Conversation Continued https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wkQ8ZKiRnNnax9ENaDXfQhl6kh-iYlXx7gMEhKMTQBU/edit#heading=h.cu8l0ohk9n2q
14:41:41 [chuck]
regrets: Poornima Subramanian
14:42:15 [rscano]
present+
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present+
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present+
14:58:58 [Francis_Storr]
present+
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present+
14:59:22 [chuck]
present+ Jeanne
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present+
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present+
15:00:49 [chuck]
agenda?
15:00:59 [ashleyfirth]
present+
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present+
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present+
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present+
15:02:05 [ljoakley]
present+
15:02:08 [Graham]
present+
15:02:23 [wendyreid]
present+
15:02:34 [chuck]
zakim, pick a scribe
15:02:34 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Azlan
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zakim, pick a scribe
15:02:48 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose dj
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present+
15:03:00 [chuck]
zakim, pick a scribe
15:03:00 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Jeanne
15:03:18 [chuck]
zakim, pick a scribe
15:03:18 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Graham
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present+
15:03:48 [sarahhorton]
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15:03:53 [ljoakley]
scribe + LoriO
15:03:56 [alastairc]
scribe+ ljoakley
15:04:12 [ljoakley]
announcements, not seeing WCAG2.x on agenda
15:04:39 [alastairc]
TOPIC: announcements
15:05:02 [ljoakley]
every other week we go on WCAG 2,x, to review and offer to group, we cycle every two weeks. Meeting of the 23rd will have WCAG 2.x
15:05:07 [giacomo-petri]
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present+
15:05:16 [ljoakley]
We ahve not sent them to AG yet to early to review, look at them next week
15:05:27 [ljoakley]
any other announcements? nope
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anyone new on the call or in a new role?
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present+
15:06:05 [ljoakley]
This is Nat Tarnoff first meeting of the group, joined after CSUN opportunities came up
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15:06:15 [Justine]
present+
15:06:21 [ljoakley]
thanks!
15:06:23 [chuck]
zakim, take up first item
15:06:23 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'take up first item', chuck
15:06:29 [chuck]
zakim, take up item 1
15:06:29 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Subgroup updates -- taken up [from chuck]
15:06:34 [ljoakley]
Cuck" other individuals that want to introduce themselves
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s/We ahve not sent them/chuck: We have not sent them/
15:06:41 [mbgower]
present+
15:06:53 [alastairc]
s/Cuck" other /Chuck: other
15:07:16 [ljoakley]
Filippo" 2nd time here, part of the useablenet team, new to a11y, not much to give for now
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s/This is Nat Tarnoff/Nat_Tarnoff: This is Nat Tarnoff/
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chuck: thank you for joiining, your audio is a bit off
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present+
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s/Filippo" 2nd/Filippo: 2nd/
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present+
15:08:27 [ljoakley]
chuck: anita or wendy can you give us a brief update
15:08:37 [ljoakley]
@kevin warned you I wasn't any good at this
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present+
15:08:53 [ljoakley]
Wendy Reid: no movement so far will be restarting
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chuck: focus appearance, I was not there, Alistair can you give an update?
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s/@kevin warned you I wasn't any good at//
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present+
15:09:51 [laura]
present+ Laura_Carlson
15:10:04 [ljoakley]
chuck: are we trying to ramp up any new groups
15:10:12 [bruce_bailey]
On call last week, 2nd half of meeting, Mike Gower covered "Ready for Review" column from WCAG 2.x project board
15:10:13 [bruce_bailey]
https://www.w3.org/2024/04/09-ag-minutes.html#item08
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present+
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present+
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present+
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present+
15:13:52 [chuck]
zakim, take up item 2
15:13:52 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Exploratory Guidelines and Outcomes https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/discussions/60#discussioncomment-9072721 -- taken up [from chuck]
15:13:58 [ljoakley]
I use pidgin, no issues
15:14:01 [AlinaV]
present+
15:14:15 [chuck]
https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/discussions/60#discussioncomment-9072721
15:14:18 [ljoakley]
Chuck Adams: workingexploratory outcomes, Racheal had put in a summary
15:14:53 [ljoakley]
Chuck Adams:summarized, we can make some decisions, for the next 30 minutes hit some key points or in other conversations, Racheal should I dive in?
15:15:13 [chuck]
q?
15:15:22 [ljoakley]
RAcheal Bradley: Putting this in the working daraft, talking about immediate next steps
15:17:34 [ljoakley]
Chuck Adams: converstion that we couldn't complete, visual and priogramatically, no solution, group leaning to evaluate the use of thes case by case, write up the guildeline, keep both in outcome and evaluate case by case. that's what I remember from last week. Any objections to this approach. That's how we will proceed. Is it okay to leave out exceptions until next week. Convertion broad definition or not? Option proposed, we not worry abou
15:17:34 [ljoakley]
t exception,will consider in next phase. Any concerns?
15:17:35 [GreggVan]
q+
15:17:39 [chuck]
ack Gregg
15:17:50 [chuck]
+1
15:18:03 [Rachael]
q+
15:18:07 [chuck]
ack Rach
15:18:10 [ljoakley]
GreggV: is it useful to leave a note mentions the topic, people think of an exception leave it as a question so people bring it up later
15:18:22 [chuck]
q+
15:18:29 [ljoakley]
rached B: in working draft or editors draft
15:18:30 [Rachael]
q+
15:18:47 [chuck]
ack Ch
15:18:49 [ljoakley]
greggV: people will iobject in a note say things to be thinking about this this and this
15:19:10 [chuck]
ack Rach
15:19:13 [ljoakley]
chuck A: I incorrectly presumed that this was for us only not publis facing, not opposed, think about next context
15:19:27 [GreggVan]
q+
15:19:30 [chuck]
ack Gregg
15:19:33 [ljoakley]
Rachel B: not including exception in this drat but a number of outcomes will get exceptions as we work
15:19:57 [kevin]
s/this drat/this draft/
15:21:10 [chuck]
q?
15:21:14 [ljoakley]
Gregg V: exploratory draft just a big long list of outcomes, not stuffing bug list into WCAG3, lots of things that have not been thought through. I'm afraid if internal draft, wouldn't but outcomes into a draft to the public, these are candidates, looks like we haven;t figured out how to do it, seems me to be getting ahead of ourselves, none of these are beyond sticky notes onthe wall that I'v seen
15:21:17 [Rachael]
q+
15:21:20 [chuck]
ack Rach
15:21:45 [chuck]
q+
15:23:27 [bruce_bailey]
s/I use pidgin, no issues//
15:23:28 [chuck]
ack Ch
15:23:29 [ljoakley]
Racheal B: Gregg, did go though that whole prioces no decision to publish working getting it into a publishable list, placeholder list of guidance, purpose is we know this is exploratory some are inspirational, promote come for research, work on ones we have enough research on, asking th public what did we miss, shift WCAG3 into a public converstion. ditors draft we decide if comfortable of publishing to working draft.
15:23:37 [GreggVan]
q+
15:24:25 [chuck]
ack Gregg
15:24:38 [ljoakley]
Chuck A: we brought these concepts to the group before, engage the public earlier,they will see rougher work, we need to explain very caerfully, reearch a key point, give the users an earlier opportunity to comment
15:24:47 [Rachael]
yes
15:24:51 [ljoakley]
Gregg V: big list in google docs that I made comments on?
15:25:01 [ljoakley]
Chuck A: google doc contains content
15:25:02 [Detlev]
Can you post link for reference?
15:25:04 [alastairc]
It would replace the current list of placeholder guidelines: https://www.w3.org/TR/wcag3/#guidelines
15:25:08 [Rachael]
q+
15:25:17 [kirkwood]
can we put link to list (google doc) in IRC so we are on same page
15:25:59 [rscano]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XA5X9f9G5vmKJ7BiC7GCf8nWaCjnKGcSYrFd9ImWxc8/edit?pli=1#heading=h.l86m24tnln43
15:26:00 [Detlev]
@alastairc Ta!
15:26:01 [rscano]
yep
15:26:15 [chuck]
q+
15:26:55 [chuck]
ack Rach
15:26:56 [ljoakley]
Gregg V: taking big long list and taking the exparamental topics to the public? Not sure about that. Should we take big list and stick it in? Can show public with enough introduction we an put thm in, very raw very early, please look and see what we are missing
15:27:45 [chuck]
ack Ch
15:27:46 [ljoakley]
Racheal B: working on list in our space getting a clean list, pull request with things that are authoring only, things with not a lot of reearch, show to the group, a full converstaion with framing just getting starting list
15:28:34 [chuck]
q+
15:28:35 [GreggVan]
q+ to say -- suggest we post annotated list
15:28:36 [chuck]
ack Ch
15:28:48 [kevin]
s/exparamental/experimental/
15:29:11 [chuck]
q?
15:29:13 [chuck]
ack Gregg
15:29:13 [Zakim]
GreggVan, you wanted to say -- suggest we post annotated list
15:29:18 [ljoakley]
Chuck A: back to the concept of essential exceptions, note in internal notes, Gregg suggested could we add as brief notes out to the publis, I avhe a concern with that. If we start putting in exceptions haven't flushed them out, not good vetting, content is raw getting group review, an idea of exception will get noted not for the pulic
15:30:24 [chuck]
q+
15:30:46 [ljoakley]
Gregg V: put it out as annoted list, put them out with bullets "need Research:, concerns, this and that and the other may turn into exception or how would this be implemented. so when public looks at it, if they know the answers they write to us. Also blunt you haven't thought about this.
15:31:23 [chuck]
q?
15:31:26 [chuck]
ack Ch
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15:31:34 [ljoakley]
Chuck A: not a bad ide not pushing back on that, we could add those notes fater publication, exactly what you said could be notes.
15:31:35 [bruce_bailey]
essential definition from 2.2: https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG22/#dfn-essential
15:31:37 [bruce_bailey]
essential: if removed, would fundamentally change the information or functionality of the content, and information *and* functionality cannot be achieved in another way that would conform
15:31:54 [kevin]
s/bad ide/bad idea/
15:32:10 [chuck]
q?
15:32:12 [ljoakley]
q+
15:32:12 [Rachael]
scribe: Rachael
15:32:20 [kirkwood]
+1 to Gregg. wary of Essential Exception (language) myself, it is seemingly a condition or can be addressed in notes / comments
15:32:27 [Rachael]
q+
15:32:38 [alastairc]
scribe+ alastairc
15:32:50 [chuck]
q?
15:32:53 [chuck]
ack ljo
15:33:02 [Rachael]
Chuck: I'm not sure how we should move forward.
15:33:03 [bruce_bailey]
q+ to ask if definition for essential is being reconsidered?
15:33:34 [GreggVan]
q+
15:33:36 [Rachael]
ljoakley: I support Gregg's suggestion. I think we want people to provide the suggestions and comments.
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15:33:39 [chuck]
ack Rach
15:33:40 [wendyreid]
+1
15:34:12 [chuck]
ack bru
15:34:12 [Zakim]
bruce_bailey, you wanted to ask if definition for essential is being reconsidered?
15:34:14 [alastairc]
Rachael: I think we'll be more productive with a PR, but we need to have a list to put in front of people. We need lots of framing, lots of notes.
15:34:54 [Rachael]
bruce_bailey: I want to make sure everyone is comfortable with our definition of essential
15:34:54 [chuck]
ack Gregg
15:34:57 [alastairc]
q+ on general framing for essential exception
15:35:05 [bruce_bailey]
I think definition is fine as is
15:35:20 [Rachael]
GreggVan: I am concerned about something going viral in the field and we don't even see it.
15:35:32 [chuck]
q+ to say where I think we are at regarding "essential exceptions"
15:35:38 [Rachael]
...we want WCAG 3 to look like we're going where we haven't gone before, thoughtfully.
15:35:41 [dj]
q+ to respond to gregg
15:35:55 [Rachael]
...want to avoid people thinking its going off the rails. We don't want people being scared of it.
15:35:56 [chuck]
ack ala
15:35:56 [Zakim]
alastairc, you wanted to comment on general framing for essential exception
15:36:04 [ljoakley]
@Gregg thank you
15:36:13 [GreggVan]
+1
15:36:24 [Rachael]
alastairc: This comes down to the framing when we put it out. We need draft text to put in front of people. Not work saying much more until we have text in front of us that we are preparing to put out.
15:36:32 [dj]
q-
15:36:52 [dj]
s/work/worth
15:36:57 [Rachael]
...on the essential exceptions whether we do that per outcome or not. I suggest we try to keep as much as we can in the general framing and only put in outcome specific notes when there is something specific on that particular one.
15:36:57 [chuck]
ack Ch
15:36:57 [Zakim]
chuck, you wanted to say where I think we are at regarding "essential exceptions"
15:37:01 [GreggVan]
+1
15:37:08 [Rachael]
...right now the shape of the list we need feedback on.
15:37:26 [alastairc]
s/shape of the list we need/shape of the list is what we need
15:37:31 [kirkwood]
Q+
15:37:34 [bruce_bailey]
+1 to alastair that "essential exception" could be part of introduction, rather than outcome-by-outcome
15:37:40 [chuck]
ack kirk
15:37:51 [alastairc]
q+
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15:38:03 [bruce_bailey]
if removed, would fundamentally change the information or functionality of the content, and information and functionality cannot be achieved in another way that would conform
15:38:04 [Rachael]
chuck: We are looking to create the PR. I think we are at adding a framing note about essential exceptions and then if needed, circle back on this after people have the text in front of them.
15:38:07 [chuck]
ack ala
15:38:15 [bruce_bailey]
https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG22/#dfn-essential
15:38:22 [Rachael]
kirkwood: Can someone put in the defintion to essential exceptions?
15:38:37 [chuck]
q?
15:38:41 [Rachael]
alastairc: See above. We will likely change that after we've worked on WCAG 3 a bit. Useful default to start with.
15:39:29 [Rachael]
chuck: Third bullet. In our rough documents we have both "process" and "task" in different parts. Sometimes we may be referring to the same thing or possibly to a nuance. Do we want to clarify or normalize on one of these terms.
15:40:06 [Rachael]
...possibly "process" is more of the mechanism and "task" is more human oriented.
15:40:14 [alastairc]
Rachael: Process is more software oriented, task was more human oriented, was a way to distinguish
15:40:19 [alastairc]
q+
15:40:27 [GreggVan]
q+
15:40:31 [Rachael]
...we have 3 choices. Do we want to use process, task or accept that we are using both.
15:40:32 [chuck]
ack ala
15:40:34 [Rachael]
alastairc:
15:40:54 [dj]
q+
15:41:07 [chuck]
ack Gregg
15:41:12 [Rachael]
alastairc: I thought there was a difference between them. Process is something the site provides that has a start and finish. Task is a human goal. I'm inclined to keep both. Process is a subset of task.
15:41:12 [Detlev]
+1 to Alastair here
15:41:30 [chuck]
+1 to Alastair
15:41:33 [Rachael]
GreggVan: A task is a think you need to do. A process requires you to do multiple things.
15:41:35 [kirkwood]
sorry i was slowessential
15:41:36 [kirkwood]
if removed, would fundamentally change the information or functionality of the content, and information and functionality cannot be achieved in another way that would conform
15:41:54 [Rachael]
...a process has multiple things that have to be done and done in order.
15:42:12 [Rachael]
Buying something is a process. Adding to cart, paying, etc. are tasks.
15:42:13 [Azlan]
q+ to say a task is a thing to be done. A process is how to do it
15:42:27 [bruce_bailey]
s/sorry i was slow//
15:42:41 [ljoakley]
quit
15:42:47 [Rachael]
...process usually means multiple pages.
15:42:47 [alastairc]
So ok to keep both terms?
15:42:56 [chuck]
Poll: keep the use of both terms "process" and "task"
15:43:00 [chuck]
ack dj
15:43:08 [Rachael]
Chuck: Will do poll.
15:43:29 [Rachael]
DJ: I agree there is a difference. In keeping both, we may use process incorrectly rather than task.
15:43:50 [chuck]
q?
15:43:54 [chuck]
ack azlan
15:43:54 [Zakim]
Azlan, you wanted to say a task is a thing to be done. A process is how to do it
15:43:56 [Rachael]
...I'd like to see a task and actions distinction where actions are one control for example.
15:44:27 [Rachael]
Azlan: A task is what you have to do. A process is how to do it.
15:44:37 [Rachael]
...worth keeping both.
15:44:40 [Jennie_Delisi]
q+ re understanding
15:44:44 [chuck]
POLL: Keep using both terms "process" and "task" and potentially add additional nuanced terms such as "action"
15:45:15 [alastairc]
+1
15:45:15 [Azlan]
+1
15:45:16 [chuck]
+1
15:45:17 [NatTarnoff]
+1
15:45:18 [dj]
-1
15:45:21 [chuck]
ack Jennie
15:45:21 [Zakim]
Jennie_Delisi, you wanted to discuss understanding
15:45:21 [GreggVan]
+1
15:45:24 [Rachael]
+1
15:45:25 [Detlev]
+1
15:45:38 [ToddL]
+1
15:46:06 [Frankie]
+1
15:46:14 [Rachael]
Jennie_Delisi: I want to make sure we remember that to "process" (cognitive) is part of a process as well.
15:46:26 [kirkwood]
+1
15:46:33 [Rachael]
Chuck: One -1 but overall support.
15:46:34 [Rachael]
q+
15:46:38 [chuck]
ack Rach
15:46:39 [Jennie_Delisi]
* no problem Rachael - one moment
15:46:44 [laura]
+1
15:46:54 [bruce_bailey]
+1 but would like a definition sooner than later
15:46:56 [alastairc]
Rachael: Something to look at when we put the PR out is whether task and process are used appropriatly.
15:47:02 [chuck]
rachael: Something to look at when we put the PR out, think about if the words "process" and "task" are used appropriately.
15:47:12 [Jennie_Delisi]
* Understanding/comprehension is an essential piece of accessibility. This is needed to complete a task, but may be inherent.
15:47:13 [chuck]
zakim, take up item 3
15:47:13 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- Text Alternatives Conversation Continued https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wkQ8ZKiRnNnax9ENaDXfQhl6kh-iYlXx7gMEhKMTQBU/edit#heading=h.cu8l0ohk9n2q -- taken up [from
15:47:16 [Zakim]
... chuck]
15:47:18 [alastairc]
scribe-
15:47:29 [Rachael]
Jennie_Delisi:Understanding/comprehension is an essential piece of accessibility. This is needed to complete a task, but may be inherent.
15:47:48 [alastairc]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wkQ8ZKiRnNnax9ENaDXfQhl6kh-iYlXx7gMEhKMTQBU/edit
15:47:50 [Rachael]
alastairc: Picking up where we left off on text alternatives. I will share screen and share document.
15:48:15 [Rachael]
...A couple updates from discussion we had last time. Partly on decision tree and partly on testing process.
15:49:01 [Rachael]
...Last time we split into groups and worked on examples. We will do so again. Not quite ready to be compiled but there were some items to discuss.
15:49:28 [Rachael]
...there were some items like data and artistic items where the image itself was the experience. a plain text alternative was not equivilent. That added a level to the decision tree.
15:49:35 [mbgower]
q+
15:49:39 [shiestyle]
shiestyle has joined #ag
15:49:56 [bruce_bailey]
alastairc:: "a plain text alternative would not be an equivalent"
15:49:59 [chuck]
I will go through queue after Alastair does his preview
15:50:09 [GreggVan]
q+
15:50:31 [chuck]
ack mb
15:50:34 [Rachael]
...another change was that if the non-text content duplicates adjacent text, the alt should be null. Not a hard and fast requirement.
15:51:37 [Rachael]
mbgower: The thing that's missing here, is a second part. If no, provide a brief alternative and a second alternative wiht more information.
15:51:51 [chuck]
q?
15:51:58 [chuck]
ack Gregg
15:52:15 [Rachael]
..similar to situation b where you can't provide everything. Example: a video, you title the video and then provide the alternatives.
15:52:24 [Rachael]
[editorial discussions]
15:52:26 [chuck]
q+ Gregg
15:52:55 [Rachael]
mbgower: Edit revised proceedure 2. Change shall to may
15:53:44 [Rachael]
alastairc: group 3 was working on examples for that
15:54:20 [chuck]
ack Gregg
15:54:24 [chuck]
q+ to ask about the ask
15:54:40 [mbgower]
+1 "may"
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15:54:44 [Rachael]
mbgower: If process its still useful to have the process flow
15:54:48 [gpellegrino]
present+
15:54:56 [gpellegrino]
presnet+
15:54:57 [Rachael]
GreggVan: Change to its allowable to make it null.
15:55:30 [Rachael]
alastairc: One of the examples if you have icons and text. They each have an icon. If each gets alt text that matches text next to it, should it be a failure.
15:56:08 [chuck]
q?
15:56:18 [Rachael]
GreggVan: I was called into a situation where that happened. Making it a "may" may solve that problem. IT may be the right or wrong thing to do. We shouldn't say its always the thing to do.
15:56:20 [GN0153]
The text should not duplicate immediately visible text. Alternatively, it either should describe the image/icon or be null.
15:56:29 [Rachael]
q+ to queue scribe change at the top of the hour
15:56:32 [chuck]
ack Ch
15:56:32 [Zakim]
chuck, you wanted to ask about the ask
15:57:05 [chuck]
ack Rach
15:57:05 [Zakim]
Rachael, you wanted to queue scribe change at the top of the hour
15:57:10 [alastairc]
q+ for next topic
15:57:24 [chuck]
ack ala
15:57:24 [Zakim]
alastairc, you wanted to discuss next topic
15:58:08 [Rachael]
alastairc: One more topic before we break into groups. On the decision tree, starting with whether its operable or not isnt' the right place to start. It doesnt' handle situations where image is part of a control or thumbnails in an image gallery.
15:58:19 [Kimberly]
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15:58:27 [Rachael]
...Dan, do you have examples which don't handle that complex case? Or does anyone else?
15:58:53 [Kimberly]
+present
15:58:58 [Rachael]
Dan: examples we were evaluating in the exercise were graph widgets. Relatively common for webapps displaying graphs to have parts of the graph be operable.
15:59:33 [Jennie_Delisi]
* operable data visualizations. Excellent example, dan_bjorge.
15:59:37 [chuck]
q+
15:59:37 [Rachael]
...There are operable controls are part of this. there are gray areas in the first question that makes me question it.
15:59:39 [chuck]
ack Ch
15:59:44 [Rachael]
...not sure which direction to go down the tree.
16:00:17 [bruce_bailey]
q+ to ask simple/complex as starting point?
16:00:20 [Rachael]
alastairc: I would like to assign that example to one of the groups to tackle it.
16:00:36 [alastairc]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wkQ8ZKiRnNnax9ENaDXfQhl6kh-iYlXx7gMEhKMTQBU/edit
16:00:44 [Rachael]
scribign stops, breaking into subgroups. See documents
16:00:48 [bruce_bailey]
q-
16:02:27 [avk]
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16:03:12 [avk]
present+
16:05:17 [Graham]
mbgower you were in group 2 with us I believe!
16:11:26 [alastairc]
Reminder - the pass/fail examples are NOT whether the website example passes, but listing for that scenario what alt-text should pass, and what should fail. I.e. make up the alt-text in multiple ways to show what would pass/fail for that scenario.
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16:52:32 [bruce_bailey]
RRSagent, draft minutes
16:52:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/16-ag-minutes.html bruce_bailey
16:54:19 [alastairc]
scribe+
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16:55:31 [Graham]
q+
16:56:08 [alastairc]
Group 3 focused on emoji vs symbols. Emoji have standard alt text, but symbols do not. Also, use of dingbats is problematic as there is no association between the symbol/picture produced and the letter used.
16:57:21 [alastairc]
Group 4 focused on a couple with gaps. Sprites was a specific example, but came up with pass & fail examples. Also expanded on the image for exploration (17). We added a map example, a visitor map example. Talked through that, and what pass/fail examples were.
16:57:24 [bruce_bailey]
s/scribign stops/scribing stops/
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16:57:53 [alastairc]
... had a brief stab at example 13, tried an org-chart, but not sure about that one, so haven't got to pass/fail examples yet.
16:58:18 [Graham]
q-
16:58:54 [alastairc]
Group 1 focused on an interactive image, chose a zoomable sunburst. Didn't finish, but made some suggestions to the decision tree that we updated in our google doc. Ended contemplating whether it was too much for this excercise. It was very complex, so unclear what equivelents would be.
16:59:06 [bruce_bailey]
Decision tree (for straightforward images) on WAI: https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/images/decision-tree/
16:59:08 [alastairc]
... made some suggestions.
16:59:16 [Graham]
I don't have access to comment on the relevant doc, but for the point that Mike was making on Dingbat fonts, perhaps we should treat these in the same way as ASCII art.
16:59:34 [alastairc]
zakim, end meeting
16:59:34 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been rscano, chuck, kevin, Francis_Storr, alastairc, Jeanne, dj, JakeAbma, ashleyfirth, Jennie_Delisi, Azlan, bruce_bailey, ljoakley, Graham,
16:59:37 [Zakim]
... wendyreid, shadi, maryjom, giacomo-petri, Makoto, Justine, mbgower, Frankie, sarahhorton, ToddL, kirkwood, Laura_Carlson, GreggVan, tburtin, dan_bjorge, Detlev, AlinaV,
16:59:37 [Zakim]
... gpellegrino, present, avk
16:59:37 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes v1
16:59:38 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/16-ag-minutes.html Zakim
16:59:44 [Zakim]
I am happy to have been of service, alastairc; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye
16:59:44 [Zakim]
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17:05:09 [chuck]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:05:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/16-ag-minutes.html chuck
17:05:32 [chuck]
zakim, end meeting
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