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12:57:44 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF Slot 2
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13:02:15 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Luca_Barbato, Kunihiko_Toumura, Michael_Koster
13:02:16 <kaz> chair: Ege, Koster
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13:03:26 <mahda> present+ Mahda_Noura
13:03:40 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner
13:05:05 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#April_3_and_4%2C_2024
13:05:18 <kaz> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima, Cristiano_Aguzzi
13:05:25 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
13:05:31 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:05:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/04-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
13:05:58 <dape> dape has joined #wot-td
13:06:24 <dape> scribe: dape
13:06:43 <dape> TOPIC: Minutes
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13:06:59 <Ege> https://www.w3.org/2024/03/28-wot-td-minutes.html
13:07:05 <dape> -> March 28 -> https://www.w3.org/2024/03/28-wot-td-minutes.html
13:07:37 <dape> EK: No objections -> minutes approved
13:07:53 <dape> TOPIC: Organizational
13:08:03 <dape> SUBTOPIC: TTWG registry analysis
13:08:12 <dape> EK: see  https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/1188
13:08:28 <mm> mm has joined #wot-td
13:08:28 <dape> ... ask for volunteer
13:08:59 <dape> ... M.Koster and I can deal with it
13:09:03 <kaz> present+ Michael_McCool
13:09:04 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:09:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/04-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
13:09:14 <dape> TOPIC: Resource Management
13:09:53 <kaz> q+
13:09:55 <dape> EK: see https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1969
13:10:07 <kaz> q-
13:10:10 <Ege> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/blob/egekorkan-patch-1/VERSIONING.md
13:10:29 <mm> (ntd in 30m hopefully we can get through the versioning by then)
13:10:40 <dape> EK: we want to agree on part "until REC release"
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13:10:42 <mm> q+
13:10:44 <dape> ... 2 open points
13:10:52 <kaz> s/TOPIC: Organizational//
13:10:57 <dape> ... moreover, we should look at "changelog" section
13:11:07 <dape> q?
13:11:33 <kaz> i/TOPIC: Minutes/topic: Organizational/
13:11:42 <dape> MMC:  proposal for date vs sequence number
13:11:47 <kaz> s/TOPIC: Minutes/subtopic: Minutes/
13:11:52 <dape> ... propose to do both
13:11:53 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:11:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/04-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
13:12:16 <dape> ... normally we just have 1 number.. but helps in case of PlugFests
13:12:52 <dape> MMC: number starts every day ... but normally it is just one
13:13:14 <luca_barbato> +1 for . separator
13:13:55 <dape> EK: Number for flexibility reason
13:14:00 <kaz> q+
13:14:19 <dape> ... other reason is communication with other human
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13:14:26 <dape> q?
13:14:28 <kaz> ack m
13:14:30 <dape> ack mm
13:14:40 <cris1> q+
13:15:03 <dape> Kaz: The content is fine and reasonable.. anyhow.. description seems complicated
13:15:16 <dape> ... we might want to fix the prose
13:15:57 <dape> EK: I see
13:16:17 <kaz> q-
13:16:21 <dape> CA: I am ok with current format
13:16:50 <dape> ... should the "-1" always be there.. even if there is just one release
13:16:54 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:16:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/04-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
13:17:01 <dape> MMC: Yes
13:17:26 <dape> EK: Cristiano, what do you prefer?
13:17:46 <luca_barbato> q+
13:17:51 <kaz> q+
13:17:53 <dape> CA: using "date" might be better.. even though it is longer
13:18:16 <dape> ... just number is okay also
13:18:30 <kaz> ack cr
13:18:31 <dape> LB: fine with approach
13:18:45 <dape> ... propose to have many releases
13:19:24 <dape> ... as separator I prefer dot over dash
13:19:52 <dape> ... btw, date can be tuned by adding hour etc
13:19:56 <mm> q+
13:20:22 <dape> q+
13:20:47 <dape> LB: time reference in version is nice to reason
13:21:09 <dape> ... adding sequence number is similar to adding hour
13:21:42 <mm> (kaz, can I jump the q?)
13:22:17 <kaz> date, "-", i/proposal for/[[ number, e.g., "2.0.0-pre20240301-1+td-2.0.0-pre20240301-1" (posibly use "." instead of "-") ]]/
13:22:18 <kaz> q?
13:22:24 <kaz> ack l
13:22:26 <dape> ... alternative to use portions only if needed
13:22:26 <kaz> qq+ mm
13:22:37 <kaz> q- mm
13:22:41 <kaz> q- mm
13:22:42 <dape> MMC: I prefer day granularity
13:23:02 <dape> ... sequence number is better than hour ... during TestFests etc
13:23:22 <kaz> i/proposal for/[[ date, "-", number, e.g., "2.0.0-pre20240301-1+td-2.0.0-pre20240301-1" (posibly use "." instead of "-") ]]/
13:23:28 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:23:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/04-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
13:23:35 <dape> ... i still prefer dayDate + secuenceNr
13:23:36 <kaz> q?
13:23:40 <mm> ack mm
13:23:47 <dape> s/secuenceNr/sequenceNr
13:23:56 <cris1> +1 for `.`
13:24:00 <dape> Kaz: Discussion is important and delicate
13:24:18 <dape> ... should minute the proposal
13:24:26 <mm> (again, I have to leave soon also...)
13:24:43 <Ege> date,.,number, i.e. 2.0.0-pre20240301.1+td-2.0.0-pre20240301.1
13:24:59 <mm> (really three main propsals: date (day granuaritly), sequence number, or both)
13:25:08 <mm> q?
13:25:13 <mm> q+
13:25:25 <kaz> q-
13:25:28 <kaz> ack d
13:25:44 <kaz> i|proposal for date|@@@ first example notation here!|
13:25:55 <dape> DP: prefer well defined format.. not adding portions when needed only
13:26:05 <dape> q?
13:26:08 <kaz> q+
13:26:13 <kaz> ack m
13:26:16 <dape> MMC: prefer mixed format
13:26:54 <dape> EK: Is everybody fine with the following format?
13:27:17 <mm> +1 for not changing granularity - fixed day granularity to keep things simple.
13:27:22 <mm> simplish
13:27:27 <luca_barbato> q+
13:27:44 <kaz> ack k
13:27:59 <dape> q?
13:28:05 <dape> ack luca_barbato
13:28:08 <kaz> kaz: I'm OK with the updated notation, but we should document @@
13:28:17 <dape> LB: fine with current proposal.. seems simpler..
13:28:25 <dape> ... there is enough agreement
13:28:58 <dape> ... w.r.t. changelog ... we can generate it from commits
13:29:06 <cris1> q+ +1 for conventional commit
13:29:18 <kaz> s/@@/what "-" and "." mean here, e.g., "-" to show the separation of module and "." to show the separation within each module./
13:29:20 <kaz> ack l
13:29:37 <kaz> q+ cris1
13:29:40 <kaz> q- +1
13:29:59 <cris1> ack cris1
13:30:09 <kaz> q+ dape
13:30:21 <kaz> q- dape
13:30:41 <kaz> present+ Jan_Romann
13:30:46 <dape> dape has joined #wot-td
13:31:24 <kaz> s/of module/of modules/
13:31:25 <Ege> proposal: using the following in pre REC release for the version number of all resources(semver for resource)-pre(date with day).(sequence number)+(spec version)-pre(date with day).(sequence number)
13:31:51 <Ege> RESOLUTION: using the following in pre REC release for the version number of all resources: (semver for resource)-pre(date with day).(sequence number)+(spec version)-pre(date with day).(sequence number)
13:32:42 <dape> EK: Perfect, will update PR accordingly
13:32:45 <kaz> q+
13:33:18 <dape> Kaz: Minor:  does the bottom section say discussion.. or should we rather delete that part
13:33:26 <dape> ... at least for the final version
13:33:32 <dape> EK: Yes, will remove it later on
13:33:54 <kaz> q-
13:33:59 <dape> q?
13:34:35 <dape> EK: What about the regular releases?
13:34:42 <dape> ... monthly or when needed?
13:34:53 <dape> MMC: Whenever needed?
13:35:01 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:35:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/04-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
13:35:08 <dape> s/Whenever needed?/Whenever needed
13:35:53 <dape> MMC: micro PRs should not create releases
13:36:00 <dape> q+
13:36:05 <luca_barbato> q+
13:36:10 <kaz> i|proposal for dat vs|subtopic: Open point 1: Decide whether we want a simple integer or a date after the pre|
13:36:26 <kaz> q+
13:36:29 <dape> DP: Agree, whenever needed makes sense
13:36:29 <kaz> ack d
13:36:42 <cris1> q+
13:37:07 <dape> LB: As long we have the machinery ready ... it is fine to create artifacts when needed
13:37:22 <kaz> i|What about the|subtopic: Open point 2: Whenever needed or monthly|
13:37:46 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:37:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/04-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
13:37:53 <dape> ... anyhow, does not provide regularity
13:38:17 <Ege> q?
13:38:18 <dape> q?
13:38:21 <dape> ack l
13:38:50 <dape> Kaz: Minor comment: "title open point 2" should not be changed today
13:39:28 <dape> Kaz: General: we should record all changes
13:39:43 <mjk> q?
13:39:57 <kaz> q-
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13:40:15 <dape> Kaz: ... need mechanism to track all the changes
13:40:29 <mm> (ntd, for real now - but I trust you guys to decide something reasonable, will follow your lead)
13:40:57 <dape> Kaz: Small PRs are fine
13:41:11 <dape> EK: Any objection to work with commits and PRs?
13:42:28 <dape> LB: branches is working area.. merge commit is the actual change (log)
13:42:43 <kaz> q?
13:43:08 <dape> .. for changelog we need merge or squash commits
13:43:41 <kaz> s/is working area/are working areas/
13:45:08 <kaz> i|proposal for date vs|subtopic: Open point 1: Decide whether we want a simple integer or a date after the pre|
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13:45:13 <dape8> EK: agree to use conv. commit messages
13:45:17 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:45:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/04-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
13:45:24 <kaz> q?
13:45:24 <kaz> ack c
13:46:12 <dape8> CA: +1 for current proposal to release as often as possible
13:46:46 <Ege> proposal: We should consider a release after a resource-targeting PR but we can skip some if see the need
13:47:17 <dape8> +1
13:47:18 <Ege> proposal: We should consider a release after a resource-targeting PR but we can skip some if we see the need
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13:47:46 <kaz> q+
13:47:59 <mjk> q?
13:48:08 <kaz> ack k
13:48:26 <Ege> resolution: We should consider a release after a resource-targeting PR but we can skip some if we see the need
13:48:38 <kaz> i/agree to/scribenick: dape8/
13:48:41 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:48:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/04-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
13:49:17 <kaz> q+
13:49:24 <dape8> EK: <updating VERSIONING.md>
13:49:40 <dape8> Kaz: Need to clarify the expectations
13:49:45 <dape8> ... not today
13:49:48 <dape8> EK: Agree
13:49:48 <kaz> q-
13:49:58 <dape8> s/expectations/exceptions
13:50:02 <kaz> s/not today/not today, though/
13:50:19 <dape8> EK: I would go to "changelog" dicussion
13:50:29 <dape8> ... we talked about it already a bit
13:50:34 <mjk> q?
13:50:58 <dape8> ... in discovery TF changelog is used already
13:51:26 <dape8> EK: First question: Where is the changelog?
13:51:49 <dape8> .. outside html or Markdown
13:51:49 <cris1> q+
13:52:02 <dape8> ... not sure about tooling
13:52:05 <dape8> q?
13:52:36 <dape8> EK: other point. Should it be relative difference ?
13:52:49 <dape8> ... diff to previous release ?
13:53:11 <dape8> ... w.r.t. automation ... we should give it a try
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13:54:01 <dape8> CA: scope in conventional comment might help
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13:54:22 <dape8> ... I used that in the past and it worked
13:55:14 <dape8> ... about auto-changes ... tool can be instructed to do the diff/changelog based on last official release
13:55:44 <dape8> CA: conventional commit is useful .. but sometimes the "type" of change is not easy...
13:55:51 <luca_barbato> q+
13:56:16 <dape8> ack cris1
13:56:17 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:56:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/04-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
13:56:24 <dape8> ack cris
13:56:48 <kaz> i|I would go to "|subtopic: Changelog|
13:56:50 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:56:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/04-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
13:57:21 <dape8> EK: one commit message for a multiple set of changes in different resources
13:57:37 <kaz> q+
13:57:44 <dape8> CA: doing separate commits does not make sense
13:57:47 <dape8> q?
13:58:20 <kaz> ack lu
13:58:44 <dape8> LB: If we generate different changelog for each artifact ...
13:59:16 <dape8> ... we do not work on software commits
13:59:23 <dape8> ... we do not work on software commits
13:59:25 <dape8> dsadas
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13:59:46 <kaz> s/... we do not work on software commits//
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14:00:07 <kaz> s/dsadas//
14:00:43 <kaz> q?
14:02:49 <dape> Kaz: We should continue the discussion since we are out of time
14:03:03 <dape> ... we also need to think why we need changelog
14:03:11 <dape> ... for external developers?
14:03:48 <kaz> s/discussion since/discussion next time since/
14:05:06 <kaz> s/for external developers?/basically, we'd like to provide information to external developers so that they can tell what was changed when./
14:05:41 <kaz> s/out of time/out of time. However, let's record important point as "Open points" on the VERSIONING.md./
14:06:01 <kaz> s/when./when. We need to consider that when we continue the discussion./
14:06:28 <kaz> [[
14:06:34 <kaz> Open points on Changelogs:
14:06:36 <kaz> Guideline for commit messages
14:06:37 <kaz> Should there be one changelog file or per resource?
14:06:37 <kaz> Clarify the goal of the changelog. For now, it is
14:06:45 <kaz> s/Guide/* Guide/
14:06:54 <kaz> s/Should/* Should/
14:07:02 <kaz> s/Clari/* Clari/
14:07:05 <kaz> [adjourned]
14:07:14 <kaz> i/adj/]]/
14:07:19 <kaz> rrsagent, draft miutes
14:07:19 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft miutes', kaz.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:07:31 <kaz> s/rrsagent, draft miutes//
14:07:35 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:07:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/04-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:07:56 <kaz> i/We should/scribenick: dape/
14:07:58 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:07:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/04-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
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