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12:40:06 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/03/27-rqtf-irc
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12:40:06 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
12:40:07 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jasonjgw
12:40:14 <jasonjgw> meeting: RQTF meeting
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12:40:37 <jasonjgw> chair: jasonjgw
12:40:40 <jasonjgw> present+
12:40:41 <jasonjgw> scribe+
12:41:45 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Collaboration Tools Accessibility User Requirements.
12:41:45 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Miscellaneous updates and topics.
12:52:19 <janina> present+
12:59:40 <DavidSwallow> present+
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13:03:58 <lisa> present+
13:04:05 <matatk> present+
13:04:31 <janina> scribe+
13:04:31 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
13:04:31 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Collaboration Tools Accessibility User Requirements. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
13:05:04 <JPaton> present+ John_Paton
13:06:13 <janina> jasonjgw: Summarizes we're here to discuss CTAU
13:06:24 <janina> CTAUR progress ...
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13:06:42 <janina> jasonjgw: CTAUR is a doc in our *AUR series
13:06:55 <webirc91> present+
13:07:10 <webirc91> scribe+
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13:07:23 <webirc91> present+ Jennie
13:07:32 <janina> jasonjgw: CTAUR addresses collaborative aspects in synchronous and asynchronous tools
13:07:53 <janina> jasonjgw: Thanks Dave for his liaisoning help
13:08:45 <janina> jasonjgw: Notes RQTF addressed some COGA comments with edits of various kinds
13:09:13 <janina> jasonjgw: Notes WD recently updated
13:09:41 <janina> jasonjgw: Purpose today is to understand any further changes
13:10:01 <janina> jasonjgw: RQTF believes CTAUR is nearing completion, so now is a good time to catch anything left
13:10:35 <janina> jasonjgw: Today we want to focus on any remaining items
13:10:47 <janina> jasonjgw: Invites Dave to move us forward ...
13:11:18 <janina> DavidSwallow: Notes RQTF welcomed COGA comments
13:11:32 <janina> DavidSwallow: Notes also COGA appreciates the attention received
13:12:07 <janina> DavidSwallow: have attempted to organize issues around themes; some about scope; some about tracking
13:12:37 <janina> DavidSwallow: some re language and structure
13:12:39 <janina> q?
13:13:12 <janina> q?
13:13:47 <janina> DavidSwallow: Notes substantive edits to better address scope
13:14:34 <webirc91> janina: I think we added language to clarify Github and other environments - we call that asynchronous
13:14:47 <webirc91> ...Revision control systems. They function similarly
13:15:05 <webirc91> ...We have synchronous and asynchronous in the explanatory notes.
13:15:53 <janina> jasonjgw: We also clarified scope that we're discussing collab functionality as pertains to many kinds of content
13:16:15 <janina> jasonjgw: So the features related to collaboration are in scope; and content editing specifics are not
13:17:37 <lisa> q+
13:17:49 <janina> DavidSwallow: Perhaps best to have COGA review
13:18:31 <janina> lisa: Found intro para confused
13:18:33 <janina> q+
13:18:37 <janina> ack lis
13:19:30 <lisa> "many of the gaps in WCAG on improving accessibility for people with cognitive and learning disabilities has been   addressed in [coga-usable].
13:19:33 <webirc91> janina: If you would like to propose changes, you can add a pull request
13:19:44 <webirc91> ...and we dropped some of the language based on the email this morning
13:19:56 <webirc91> ...No put down was intended
13:20:05 <webirc91> ...If a wording change helps, please suggest something
13:20:12 <webirc91> Lisa: I will try my best
13:20:16 <webirc91> janina: email is fine too.
13:20:33 <webirc91> ...Editorial considerations - share those
13:20:51 <janina> ack ja
13:21:07 <janina> subtopic: Reviewing History
13:21:56 <janina> DavidSwallow: Several issues related to reviewing history were rejected; 50,
13:23:13 <janina> DavidSwallow: Also a needs and reqs pair ...
13:23:25 <webirc91> q+
13:23:28 <janina> DavidSwallow: The user need and req seem a bit different to me
13:23:34 <lisa> q+
13:24:38 <janina> present+ Jenny
13:25:13 <janina> jenny: Notes many environments she works with history of what happened affects a lot of groups I work with
13:25:24 <janina> jenny: summary of what happened can be very important
13:25:29 <janina> q+
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13:25:34 <janina> ack web
13:25:45 <janina> jenny: person cfan get easily disoriented
13:26:13 <webirc91> janina: I think we tried to address this. I'm happy to suggest we can try to address it better.
13:26:30 <webirc91> ...We called out that multiple groups have this need.
13:26:47 <webirc91> ...We talk about needing to be able to focus, know specifically about one area.
13:26:57 <webirc91> ...I think we tripped up regarding summaries.
13:27:05 <webirc91> ...I think AI would be the most likely source.
13:27:27 <webirc91> ...I think we say something like this is better but humans completing this would be helpful.
13:28:33 <janina> jasonjgw: Agrees edits to try and capture our sense of what ech can do, vs what we need humans to contribute
13:28:45 <janina> q?
13:28:51 <janina> ack ja
13:29:13 <janina> ack li
13:30:00 <janina> lisa: We're asking for consistent marking
13:30:13 <janina> lisa: adding a directory would be consistently named
13:30:58 <janina> lisa: consistent placement of where instructions are
13:31:17 <janina> q+
13:32:00 <janina> lisa: We're not asking authors to provide, but a consistent place were they can
13:32:16 <webirc91> janina: To me, this sits between some environments do this, and some do not
13:32:34 <webirc91> ...We added section 9 about preferring things that are standard, and not inventing new ways to do things.
13:32:40 <webirc91> ...We did attempt to address this.
13:33:07 <janina> janina: Sec 9 did attempt to address, happy if we can further clarify
13:33:38 <janina> jasonjgw: Notes we're more than half way through the call ... Asks what's left of categories?
13:34:10 <janina> subtopic: Other Items
13:34:15 <lisa> Q+
13:34:25 <janina> DavidSwallow: Issue 59 asking for a Common Pitfalls section
13:34:35 <lisa> Q-
13:34:49 <janina> DavidSwallow: COGA keen to see where these issues are actually in current draft
13:35:19 <webirc91> janina: We could go item by item.
13:35:44 <webirc91> ...We discussed the piece about the reference to Making Content Usable.
13:35:53 <lisa> Q+
13:35:56 <webirc91> ...I am not sure we have specifics here
13:36:13 <webirc91> ...Common pitfalls ... it is not just one type of environment or tool
13:36:20 <webirc91> ...I'm not sure which pitfalls are generalizable.
13:36:38 <webirc91> ...We did, where we thought we could expand it, expand over a number of recommendations.
13:37:07 <janina> jasonjgw: Notes this doc, like others in the AUR set, is quite confined
13:37:35 <janina> jasonjgw: We don't discuss in this doc topics covered in other W3C docs unless there's some nonobvious implication for the current doc
13:37:38 <janina> q?
13:37:39 <janina> q?
13:37:45 <janina> ack ja
13:37:47 <janina> ack li
13:38:19 <janina> lisa: Common Pitfalls was our summary of problems COGA has experienced using github in W3C work
13:38:30 <janina> lisa: unfamiliar terms like fork, branch
13:38:48 <janina> lisa: Even others in W3C get confused
13:39:10 <janina> lisa: Other is the complex work process
13:39:45 <janina> lisa: Can make the process unusable for some COGA people (Executive function)
13:41:30 <janina> lisa: Believes we're really talking about live regions; don't expect people to learn a new markup lang for your environment
13:41:45 <webirc91> janina: That is section 9
13:41:48 <janina> janina: That is Sec 9
13:42:26 <webirc91> q+
13:42:33 <janina> jasonjgw: Also edits where we note collab tools create barriers for others; i.e. multiple functions when collaborating
13:43:40 <webirc91> janina: And in the introduction, talking about how they are complex in their nature
13:43:50 <lisa> q+
13:43:53 <webirc91> ...I can't think of another document from the W3C like 1.5
13:44:09 <webirc91> ...Because you are looking for the benefit, while the tools need to support all kinds of situations
13:44:14 <webirc91> ...That needs to be built into the tool
13:44:24 <webirc91> ...The team needs to be aware of how to make everyone in the team functional
13:44:30 <webirc91> ...Why else did you invite them to the team
13:44:42 <webirc91> ...1.5 is sort of a trial balloon in technical guidance
13:44:46 <webirc91> q?
13:45:29 <janina> ack webirc91
13:45:48 <lisa> +1 to jennie
13:45:52 <janina> jenny: notes cog load in Sec 9; does it specify that can be an absolute barrier
13:45:53 <lisa> needs to be in
13:46:00 <janina> jasonjgw: If not clear, we can clarify
13:46:41 <janina> jenny: helping people understand the difference for the general population vis a vis someone with a cognitive disability the enourmous impact it can have for some
13:46:46 <lisa> +1
13:46:54 <janina> jenny: could make the tool absolutely unusable
13:47:22 <webirc91> janina: That is a general WAI principle
13:47:32 <webirc91> ...essential for some, useful for all - not the exact quote
13:48:25 <janina> lisa: Don't see all the items in oujr comment;
13:48:49 <janina> jasonjgw: There may or may not be established convfentions for devs to follow
13:49:11 <lisa> q+
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13:49:53 <janina> jasonjgw: we're unclear how much more we can say; what can be added
13:51:27 <janina> lisa: if we can't say about what's not well defined, much else needs to be pulled from the doc
13:52:37 <lisa> thank you everyone!!!
13:52:46 <janina> DavidSwallow: Suggests a follow up section? There's still more to go through
13:52:50 <webirc91> I really appreciate the discussion.
13:53:39 <janina> Jenny, I want to appreciate your emphasis that some people will be completely disenfranchised whereas the general population is just inconvenienced. I will look through the doc for making that clearer
13:54:15 <janina> jasonjgw: Asks for people to volunteer on follow up
13:54:20 <webirc91> Thank you Janina, and apologies if I missed it! It was in one of the issue responses David had brought up, so just bringing it back to the group's awareness.
13:54:22 <janina> present+ scott
13:54:33 <janina> scott: Thanks everyone for their participation and time
13:56:13 <lisa> thanks again everyone
13:57:00 <jasonjgw> zakim, end meeting
13:57:00 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been jasonjgw, janina, DavidSwallow, lisa, matatk, John_Paton, webirc, Jennie, Jenny, scott
13:57:02 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
13:57:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/27-rqtf-minutes.html Zakim
13:57:10 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, jasonjgw; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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