14:29:36 RRSAgent has joined #i18n 14:29:41 logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/03/21-i18n-irc 14:29:48 Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference 14:29:52 Chair: Addison Phillips 14:29:59 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/21-i18n-minutes.html addison 14:32:35 agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/6d544156-352c-46f2-b6ec-383b4e2462fb/20240321T150000/ 14:32:35 clear agenda 14:32:35 agenda+ Agenda Review 14:32:35 agenda+ Action Items 14:32:37 agenda+ Info Share 14:32:40 agenda+ RADAR Review 14:32:41 agenda+ Pending Issue Review 14:32:44 agenda+ Specdev Work 14:32:46 agenda+ AOB? 14:32:55 agenda+ UTS55, UAX31 and URLPattern (FW: [whatwg/urlpattern] Consider fully supporting RTL and Bidi URLs (#43)) 14:32:55 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/43 -> Action 43 pull together the list of win/mac/etc apis for setting base direction and/or language (on aphillips) due 2023-09-18 14:33:08 agenda+ Changes in GB 18030-2022 14:33:28 agenda+ [focusgroup] i18n: should arrow key navigation follow text direction? 14:34:36 agenda 8 = UTS55, UAX31 and URLPattern 14:34:50 agenda? 14:36:45 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/21-i18n-minutes.html addison 14:44:02 agenda+ "global-inclusion" community group 14:53:10 present+ Addison 15:00:27 present+ Atsushi 15:00:55 present+ Richard, JcK 15:02:49 present+ Bert 15:03:10 present+ Fuqiao 15:03:33 scribe+ 15:03:37 zakim, take up agendum 1 15:03:37 agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:03:39 agenda? 15:04:11 zakim, take up agendum 2 15:04:11 agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:04:19 #84 15:04:19 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/84 -> Action 84 follow up on i18n-glossary#51 (on r12a) due 2024-03-21 15:04:34 JcK has joined #i18n 15:04:43 w3c/i18n-glossary#51 15:04:44 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-glossary/issues/51 -> Issue 51 About Tashkil : long vowel marks are called Madd. (by ntounsi) [enhancement] 15:04:53 present+ JcK 15:04:59 #83 15:04:59 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/83 -> Action 83 replace the old core/langtags document with a redirect and some appropriate text blurb (on xfq) due 2024-03-21 15:05:13 close #83 15:05:14 xfq: Done 15:05:16 Closed -> issue #83 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/83 15:05:19 #82 15:05:20 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/82 -> Action 82 publish khmer lreq with new format (on r12a) due 2024-03-21 15:05:31 r12a: working on it. 15:05:33 #81 15:05:33 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/81 -> Action 81 write to kida-san about publishing simple-ruby as note with appropriate status text (on aphillips) due 2024-03-21 15:05:45 close #81 15:05:46 Closed -> issue #81 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/81 15:05:49 addison: I wrote to him 15:05:52 #80 15:05:52 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/80 -> Action 80 reply to Lisa about A11Y-I18N CG proposal (on aphillips) due 2024-03-14 15:06:08 addison: I answered. 15:06:11 close #80 15:06:13 Closed -> issue #80 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/80 15:06:19 #79 15:06:19 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/79 -> Action 79 schedule a follow-up call with WHATNOT in ~April (on aphillips) due 2024-03-07 15:06:53 addison: Some messages back and forth, but April meeting was cancelled. 15:06:59 #78 15:07:00 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/78 -> Action 78 compare infra to i18n-glossary export list and report back (on aphillips) due 2024-03-07 15:07:10 #77 15:07:10 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/77 -> Action 77 create an issue against html requesting the list of named entities based on work in action 73 (on r12a) due 2024-03-07 15:07:28 #76 15:07:29 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/76 -> Action 76 propose best practices for producers and for examples in specs in string-meta (on aphillips) due 2024-03-07 15:07:40 addison: Half done. 15:07:55 #75 15:07:55 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/75 -> Action 75 work on developing new specdev material about IDNs/domain names/etc. (on xfq) due 2024-02-29 15:08:15 xfq: I made a pull request. 15:08:30 #72 15:08:30 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/72 -> Action 72 update specdev to match string-meta with string/block direction as appropriate (on aphillips) due 2024-02-22 15:08:43 addison: I made a pull request. 15:08:45 #43 15:08:45 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/43 -> Action 43 pull together the list of win/mac/etc apis for setting base direction and/or language (on aphillips) due 2023-09-18 15:09:01 addison: They are now in the explainer. 15:09:04 #33 15:09:05 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/33 -> Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG for further review (on aphillips) 15:09:22 addison: I closed another few. 15:09:25 #12 15:09:25 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/12 -> Action 12 Upgrade/edit the explainer to address issues raised by google (on aphillips) due 18 Jul 2023 15:09:34 addison: Done. 15:09:44 #8 15:09:44 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/8 -> Action 8 Follow up on the status of Canvas and formatted text (on aphillips) due 18 Jul 2023 15:09:49 #7 15:09:49 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/7 -> Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin, r12a, bert-github) due 18 Jul 2023 15:09:59 #4 15:09:59 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/4 -> Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on r12a) due 27 Jul 2023 15:10:29 zakim, take up agendum 3 15:10:29 agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:10:51 zakim, next agendum 15:10:51 agendum 3 was just opened, addison 15:11:38 JcK: There is an IETF meeting. Restructuring some areas. 15:11:54 zakim, take up agendum 4 15:11:54 agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:12:04 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1 15:12:26 addison: New item, Ethical Web Principles 15:12:36 ... I'll add a due date. 15:13:27 ... I'll take it. 15:14:59 Bert: Not quite done with MatML Core, found some typos, and some maybe issues. Discuss next week. 15:16:01 xfq: Propose we move Privacy Principles to Completed. 15:16:32 action: addison: send a note to privacy folks saying we did a review with notes about i18n 15:16:39 Created -> action #85 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/85 15:16:56 zakim, take up agendum 5 15:16:56 agendum 5 -- Pending Issue Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:17:10 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Apending 15:17:48 w3c/i18n-activity#1834 15:17:50 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1834 -> Issue 1834 Clarify note on single character of mi as italic (by himorin) [pending] [s:mathml] [wg:math] 15:18:30 agenda? 15:18:40 zakim, take up agendum 6 15:18:40 agendum 6 -- Specdev Work -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:19:03 https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pulls 15:19:09 Bert: I will look at w3c/i18n-activity#1834 as part of my review. 15:19:09 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1834 -> Issue 1834 Clarify note on single character of mi as italic (by himorin) [pending] [s:mathml] [wg:math] 15:19:50 w3c/bp-i18n-specdev#128 15:19:51 https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/128 -> Pull Request 128 New section about IDNs (by xfq) 15:20:06 https://deploy-preview-128--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/ 15:20:37 https://deploy-preview-128--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#idn 15:21:13 xfq: I added a section on domain names and best practices. 15:21:18 q+ 15:21:33 ... One recommends not to refer to IDNA2003. 15:21:57 ... Another recommends not to refer to Punycode. 15:22:44 addison: We should probably invert it. Rather than "don't do this but do this", say "do this rather then this". 15:23:04 ack next 15:23:42 JcK: Also if you say don't use idna2003 and punycode, you in fact make a comment about @@. 15:24:04 addison: We have a section about resource identifiers. Is that where you put this? 15:24:13 xfq: Yes, I made a subsection. 15:24:39 ... A more specialized section about domain names might be useful. 15:24:49 addison: No, I think this is useful. 15:24:57 rrsagent, make minutes 15:24:58 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/21-i18n-minutes.html xfq 15:25:06 w3c/bp-i18n-specdev#127 15:25:06 ... A little more work is needed. 15:25:06 https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/127 -> Pull Request 127 Sync with string-meta and fix UTF-16 linking (by aphillips) 15:25:07 https://deploy-preview-127--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/ 15:25:46 The comment about Punycode is that it is really just an encoding, able to encode almost any string of Unicode code points, while IDNA (certainly 2008 but even 2003) imposes additional constraints of the names/strings. 15:26:25 addison: This one is tricky. I makes the changes to "base direction" terminology. 15:26:48 xfq: Some guidelines are repeated. 15:27:00 addison: They are very similar. 15:27:13 For any string field containing natural language text, it MUST be possible to determine the language and string direction of that specific string. Such determination SHOULD use metadata at the string or document level and SHOULD NOT depend on heuristics. 15:27:41 r12a: It must appear whereever people jump into the document. 15:27:45 addison: Merge? 15:27:50 xfq: Looks good. 15:28:11 https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/126 15:28:11 https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/126 -> Pull Request 126 Mention combining characters in the template (by xfq) 15:28:58 addison: Any objection to merging this? 15:29:00 agenda? 15:29:02 No objections 15:29:13 zakim, take up agendum 8 15:29:13 agendum 8 -- UTS55, UAX31 and URLPattern -- taken up 15:29:43 whatwg/urlpattern#43 15:29:44 https://github.com/whatwg/urlpattern/issues/43 -> Issue 43 Consider fully supporting RTL and Bidi URLs (by mohsen1) [i18n-needs-resolution] [decided] 15:30:20 addison: A while ago, there was an issue about bidi and URL patterns. 15:30:46 ... URL patterns are URLs with variables in them that can be replaced. 15:31:20 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2024JanMar/0104.html 15:31:59 ... I'm not sure what to propose. 15:32:18 ... It is similar to Message Format in a way. 15:32:38 ... Do we want to ask them to do something? ask them to add notes? 15:33:11 ... Maybe ask Mark Davis and Robin Leroy to a call and ask for guidance. 15:33:55 xfq: HAven't read tjhe recent, long comments yet. 15:34:16 zakim, take up agendum 9 15:34:16 agendum 9 -- Changes in GB 18030-2022 -- taken up [from addison] 15:34:17 addison: I'll see if I can get MArk and Robin. 15:34:31 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2024JanMar/0101.html 15:35:07 xfq: There is a new, incompatibe version of GB 18030. 15:35:19 ... It is in operation since August or so, 15:35:35 ... But IANA still refers to the old version. 15:35:50 ... Should we do something as a group? 15:36:05 ... Some people already contacted WHATWG and IANA. 15:36:22 ... WebKit made changes to support the new version. 15:37:00 addison: The name is still GB 18030. 15:37:24 xfq: IANA explicitly refers to the 2005 version. 15:37:41 s/IANA explicitly refers to the 2005 version./IANA explicitly refers to the 2000 version. 15:38:38 JcK: Underlying difficulty is that assumption with the registration document many years ago is that codes would not change. 15:41:12 addison: Is this an isolated case? 15:42:45 ... Several vendors very much don't want to change a charset defintion without changing its name as well. 15:44:13 addison: What should *we* do? Order popcorn? :-) 15:45:01 https://github.com/whatwg/encoding/issues/312 15:45:01 https://github.com/whatwg/encoding/issues/312 -> Issue 312 Reflect changes in GB 18030-2022 (by achristensen07) [i18n-tracker] [i18n-clreq] 15:45:06 xfq: OK for IANA. What do we do for WHATWG? 15:45:19 ... We have already tagged an issue. 15:46:49 JcK: Maybe we can tell the people who are pushing for registration of the new version that they are likely to get a new identifier, maybe a name with a year attached. 15:48:05 https://blog.unicode.org/2023/06/icu-732-cldr-431-released-gb18030.html 15:48:15 addison: Would be interesting to know what ICU did. Their encoder is widely dsitributed. 15:48:26 xfq: I found this ^^ about ICU 15:49:52 addison: Looks like they adopted the changes and made those the default for GB 18030. 15:50:29 zakim, take up agendum 11 15:50:29 agendum 11 -- "global-inclusion" community group -- taken up [from addison] 15:50:38 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2024Mar/0004.html 15:51:04 addison: We discussed last week about a a11y i18n community group. 15:51:29 ... The a11y people now scheduled a meeting. 15:52:00 ... Who wants to be out liaison to this group? 15:52:36 s/out/our/ 15:54:34 rrsagent, make minutes 15:54:36 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/21-i18n-minutes.html xfq 15:56:42 JcK: Could we write them a note that this very different if you go beyond English? 15:57:05 https://www.w3.org/community/global-inclusion/ 15:57:08 addison: This CG is I think in reaction to us telling them that. 15:57:35 xfq: Interesting topic, but I have little time. 15:58:07 zakim, take up agendum 10 15:58:07 agendum 10 -- [focusgroup] i18n: should arrow key navigation follow text direction? -- taken up [from addison] 15:58:19 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2024JanMar/0099.html 15:58:54 i/zakim/addison: I'll join the group at least, to observe. You can all do that. 16:00:20 addison: It's about making the arrow keys move in logical direction. Traditionally, there is a difference in moving vs selecting text. 16:01:03 r12a: Can we find people like the alreq people and get them interested in the discussion? 16:01:26 addison: Ask on the alreq list? 16:02:04 r12a: You wouln't reach all people we'd want to reach. 16:02:16 ... Maybe alreq and also Unicode list. 16:02:35 ... UnicoRe 16:03:02 addison: Can you find email addresses of people I can write to? 16:03:11 ... Or forward my mail? 16:03:13 agenda? 16:03:22 zakim, take up agendum 7 16:03:22 agendum 7 -- AOB? -- taken up [from agendabot] 16:03:51 rrsagent, make minutes 16:03:53 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/21-i18n-minutes.html xfq 16:04:00 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/21-i18n-minutes.html addison 16:09:51 joraboi445 has left #i18n 16:23:12 zakim, bye 16:23:12 leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Addison, Atsushi, Richard, JcK, Bert, Fuqiao 16:23:12 Zakim has left #i18n