13:28:18 RRSAgent has joined #web-networks 13:28:22 logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/03/20-web-networks-irc 13:28:22 Zakim has joined #web-networks 13:28:30 Meeting: Web & Networks IG meeting 13:31:03 Present+ Larry_Zhao, Dom, Sudeep, Song 13:31:12 present+ ChrisNeedham 13:31:17 Present+ Dapeng 13:31:48 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-networks-ig/2024Mar/0000.html 13:32:52 Present+ Eric, DanD 13:33:04 Chair: Sudeep, DanD, Song 13:35:00 Scribe+ 13:35:20 Topic: New charter 13:35:33 Sudeep: we're operating under a new charter, set to last for 2 years 13:36:07 cpn has joined #web-networks 13:36:13 Present+ PiersOHanlon 13:36:14 present+ Chris_Needham 13:36:15 Present+ Robin 13:38:26 [round of intros] 13:44:44 [slide 4] 13:45:15 Sudeep: so far we covered 3 workstreams: edge coputing, network quality monitoring and emulation tools and traces 13:45:36 ... we've seen lots of interest on edge computing and continued interest on monitoring 13:45:42 [slide 5] 13:46:02 Sudeep: in our new charter, the scope remains mostly the same with additional focus on edge 13:47:29 ... client-edge cloud coordination was added as a key topic, following up on our draft note about related use cases 13:51:39 ... in terms of emerging use cases that are driving interest: offloading capabilities, new traffic patterns with increases in uplink usage, emergence of edge networks, and impact of 6G & AI 13:52:03 ... how will these impact the end to end user experience and what developers can accomplish ? 13:53:05 [slide 6] 13:53:25 Sudeep: given the many intersections, we're considering to schedule regular, the Chairs would like to suggest regular monthly meetings to make progress 13:55:14 i/Topic:/Slideset: @@@/ 13:58:40 Eric: re hints from apps to the network and vice-versa, does it cover the ability of app & networks about hardware capabilities (e.g. on-device accelerators) 13:59:45 DanD: it can be as broad or narrow as we want; what's on the table at the BOF in IETF is to address a handful issues with video streaming, driven by needs from Meta and YouTube to self-police their traffic to reduce it on the wire 14:00:14 ... because of restrictions some mobile subscribers - they want to set the adaptive bitrate to adapt to these subscription policies 14:00:47 ... to optimize the user experience on their end 14:01:33 -> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bofreq-joras-scone-protocl-the-topic-formerly-known-as-sadcdn/ SCONEPRO BOF at IETF 14:02:37 Eric: with the rise of AI workloads, getting hints on the device capabilities to the app and network sounds increasingly relevant 14:03:11 -> https://github.com/mjoras/SCONE-PROTOCL/blob/main/documents/charter.md SCONE-PROTOCL Charter Proposal 14:04:39 Topic: Cloud Edge Client Coordination 14:05:10 Song: during TPAC we discussed the creation of a dedicated CG 14:05:45 ... I've been working on a draft scope for such a group with Max and Larry 14:06:14 sudeep has joined #web-networks 14:06:23 -> https://www.w3.org/TR/edge-cloud-reqs/ Client-Edge-Cloud coordination Use Cases and Requirements 14:06:40 Song: the CG would start from the use cases to develop a proposal for offloading 14:09:02 ... the CG could develop requirements, a proposed architecture for network offloading, and allows coordination with other W3C groups (Web & Networks, WebPerf, WebRTC) 14:09:36 ... we'll publish an initial draft soon 14:11:14 Max: ["The mission of this group is to provide mechanism and interfaces between Central Edge, Edge Cloud and Client for computing work load offlaoding and orchestration. the typical use cases include AI generation, cloud gaming, streaming acceleration, etc. The goal is to design a set of new APIs and mechanism that enable computing workload offlaindg and orchestration between Central Cloud, Edge-Cloud and Client. It should leverage existing mechanisms 14:11:14 as much as possible and should coordinate with related W3C working groups and other SDOs and open source community if necessary] 14:11:32 Max: proposed name would be "cloud edge client coordination CG" 14:12:13 s/aindg/oading/ 14:12:24 q/lao/loa/ 14:12:27 s/lao/loa/ 14:12:38 Max: proposed short name would be "cloudedgecoord" 14:12:43 ... comments are welcome 14:15:45 Dom: suggest making sure use cases and req continues in the IG 14:15:57 ... the note has 2 architectures, would the CG focus on both or only one of them? 14:16:11 ... the name could be improved 14:16:15 Song: makes sense 14:16:26 Chris: let's iterate on the proposal in github 14:17:23 Max: re which architecture in the CG, from my perspective, we should be open to any solution with more detailed research before picking one or several ones 14:17:52 ... and +1 on iterating on the name and other aspects in github 14:19:17 Sudeep: an additional input: in the IG we would focus on networking factors; in the CG, would this expand to device/compute/storage capabilities? 14:19:27 ... including discovery 14:20:49 Song: exposing capabilities may be difficult given the sandox and security constraints, but this could be part of what the CG can discuss 14:21:59 Sudeep: so let's upload this on github to iterate 14:22:16 Song: will do 14:23:11 Topic: Other topics for consideration by the IG 14:23:14 [slide 7] 14:25:55 Dom: would it be interesting to hear more about IPVM which Robin alluded to? 14:26:19 Robin: I wouldn't be the right person to present on this, but would be happy to get that presented 14:26:35 ... by a proper person 14:26:37 Eric: +1 to that 14:27:10 Robin: I'll look into it 14:29:17 DanD: if the SCONE-PROTOCL proposal gets traction, we should definitely look at how it should be exposed at the Web layer 14:29:30 s/Dom/DanD 14:30:04 DanD: I can arrange a presentation of the work after the BoF outcomes 14:30:14 s/DanD: would/Dom: would 14:30:34 ChrisN: we're also interested in seeing how that proposal evolve 14:31:04 ... liaisons with other organizations is also something worth investing in - 3GPP is looking into advanced media delivery (a video-centric use case) 14:31:24 ... which intersects with work in the Media WG for streaming apps 14:31:35 ... so a liaison with that particular work item in 3GPP sounds particularly relevant 14:31:51 Sudeep: please send more details 14:32:22 scribe+ cpn 14:32:33 Sudeep: Dom, anything related to your report on AI on the web? 14:33:00 Dom: It's higher level, but there are some questions, e.g., role of hybrid models where parts run on the client and some in the network 14:33:18 ... Has interesting privacy and security properties, but hybrid usages are very network dependent 14:33:34 ... So I can see some intersections, e.g., with the cloud-edge work 14:33:53 ... The paper really raises challenges that need solutions, but not sure yet on the intersection here 14:34:06 Sudeep: Happy to bring this up as a topic here 14:34:52 Eric: Another thing: it's cost-prohibitive to run AI workloads in the cloud, so downloading is a trend that's anticipated 14:35:24 ... Microsoft put out a white paper, a 1 bit LLM, if they can get to that, more AI workloads may run on handsets and devices 14:35:53 ... Today, most investment is in LLM in the cloud, but you'll have to start moving things to the edge and to devices. A lot of that falls in scope for this group 14:36:45 Sudeep: There's a lot of scope there. If you know anyone working on these topics, please let them know, we can schedule them in 14:37:15 ... I'll share the links with you 14:37:36 ... Max and Song will prepare the CG charter, I'll connect with Robin 14:38:31 Topic: Next meeting 14:38:51 Sudeep: I suggest we meet in one month. I'll arrange a time 14:38:54 [adjourned] 14:39:00 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:39:02 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/20-web-networks-minutes.html cpn 14:39:10 rrsagent, make log public 15:59:01 Zakim has left #web-networks 17:38:35 dom has joined #web-networks 17:38:44 s|@@@|https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2024Mar/att-0004/W3C_WNIG_20_March_2024.pdf 17:38:46 RRSAgent, draft minutes 17:38:47 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/20-web-networks-minutes.html dom 17:40:43 i/... in terms/[slide 6] 17:40:50 s/slide 6/slide 7 17:40:54 s/slide 7/slide 8 17:40:57 RRSAgent, draft minutes 17:40:59 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/20-web-networks-minutes.html dom