14:55:04 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pcg-a11y
14:55:08 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/03/14-pcg-a11y-irc
14:55:21 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #pcg-a11y
14:55:30 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, this will be pcg-a11y
14:55:30 <Zakim> ok, AvneeshSingh
14:55:35 <AvneeshSingh> present+
14:55:36 <ChrisOliverOttawa> ChrisOliverOttawa has joined #pcg-a11y
14:55:45 <AvneeshSingh> chair: AvneeshSingh
14:56:24 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Further updates to the principles document:
14:56:36 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Review of in-progress techniques documents.
14:56:53 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Issue #237: PDF crosswalk and techniques
14:57:09 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Communication and promotion of the User experience guide.
15:01:03 <JonasLillqvist> JonasLillqvist has joined #pcg-a11y
15:02:12 <naomi> naomi has joined #pcg-a11y
15:03:27 <CharlesL> CharlesL has joined #pcg-a11y
15:03:55 <George> George has joined #pcg-a11y
15:03:58 <Madeleine> Madeleine has joined #pcg-a11y
15:04:02 <CharlesL> present+
15:04:12 <CharlesL> scribe+
15:04:31 <ChrisOliverOttawa> present+
15:04:42 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:04:42 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Further updates to the principles document: -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
15:04:48 <CharlesL> AvneeshSingh: Lot of work with Principle's and techniques documents
15:05:04 <AvneeshSingh> https://w3c.github.io/publ-a11y/UX-Guide-Metadata/draft/principles/?updated
15:05:33 <CharlesL> George: We have reordered the main items to be: Visual Adjustments, Support for Non Visual reading followed by the Conformance.  those are recommended to always be shown.  the rest in the order they are in.
15:05:44 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #pcg-a11y
15:05:49 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
15:07:00 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:07:03 <CharlesL> ... next up : how to present the Hazard information.  since there is an additional "unknown" if the publisher doesn't know if there are any hazards or not vs. the metadata is missing which also implies unknown hazards.  Is there a difference?  Thoughts welcome.
15:07:21 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:07:30 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
15:07:57 <CharlesL> ... also improved the introduction which shows the workflow which Charles helped with the details describing the image.
15:08:02 <AvneeshSingh> ack bill
15:08:21 <CharlesL> Bill_Kasdorf: one difficulty lack of understanding of what hazards are.
15:08:24 <CharlesL> q+
15:08:38 <CharlesL> ... by the content creator, it is subjective
15:08:57 <naomi> q+
15:09:00 <Madeleine> q+
15:09:06 <CharlesL> George: not well defined in the W3C. no decibel values for sounds etc.
15:09:06 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:09:17 <CharlesL> Bill_Kasdorf: which prompts for "unknown."
15:09:20 <AvneeshSingh> ack charl
15:10:12 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:10:14 <CharlesL> Charles: is there a real difference with "unknown" or missing?
15:11:08 <CharlesL> naomi: you can say you don't know about any hazards. the media content exists, if the book has audio content but doesn't have any visual hazards, but can't say about the audio.
15:11:33 <CharlesL> ... does not have those media hazards. they can leave the other two blank.
15:11:35 <CharlesL> q+
15:12:05 <CharlesL> ... if any one is missing it is unknown. would behave the same as if its missing from a user perspective.
15:12:06 <AvneeshSingh> ack madel
15:12:57 <CharlesL> Madeleine: when we defined the hazards list there were certain sounds but not well defined user subjective.  motion hazards if any rapid scene that would be a hazards any rapid motion.
15:13:03 <AvneeshSingh> ack char
15:14:00 <George> George has joined #pcg-a11y
15:14:18 <George> present+
15:14:32 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
15:14:34 <CharlesL> Charles: we don't have specific unknown hazards for sound, visual etc. so unknown and missing are really the same.
15:15:04 <George> q+
15:15:05 <CharlesL> AvneeshSingh: if its unknown or no metadata is the same for the displaying it point of view.
15:15:05 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:15:25 <AvneeshSingh> ack bill
15:15:52 <Madeleine> q+
15:16:07 <AvneeshSingh> ack georg
15:16:12 <CharlesL> Bill_Kasdorf: I appreciate what Naomi and Madeiline has to say.  Maybe we should add those 3 unknown hazards would be useful.
15:16:59 <CharlesL> George: you can always add the specifics to the accessibilitySummary.  If everything is unknown but individually you could state that.
15:18:06 <CharlesL> AvneeshSingh:  we don't have individual hazards for unknown, but should we do it, but for now focus on the display.  We don't have a good way to specifying hazards since it is very subjective.
15:18:10 <AvneeshSingh> ack madel
15:18:47 <CharlesL> Madeleine: the goal of this document advise how to display this metadata.  do we have a document how to write this metadata.
15:18:51 <CharlesL> q+
15:19:10 <AvneeshSingh> ack char
15:19:14 <CharlesL> AvneeshSingh: we will treat unknown and missing as the same for now.
15:21:15 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
15:21:20 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:21:38 <Bill_Kasdorf> q-
15:21:56 <CharlesL> Matt: we already have those 3 metadata for unknown Sound, motionSimulation, and flashing hazards.
15:22:20 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:22:45 <CharlesL> Madeleine: we should add an example based on what Naomi has stated about author having only audio but not sure if it has any hazard or not.
15:22:54 <CharlesL> agenda?
15:23:44 <mgarrish> mgarrish has joined #pcg-a11y
15:26:26 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:26:45 <CharlesL> Charles: reviewed the 1.1 Publisher metadata ecosystem https://w3c.github.io/publ-a11y/UX-Guide-Metadata/draft/principles/?updated#metadata-ecosystem
15:26:57 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:26:57 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Review of in-progress techniques documents. -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
15:26:59 <Hadrien> Hadrien has joined #pcg-a11y
15:26:59 <CharlesL> AvneeshSingh: any thoughts?  No k.
15:27:04 <Hadrien> present+
15:27:10 <Madeleine> q+
15:27:42 <CharlesL> Madeleine: I did add a new issue for the principles document.
15:28:29 <CharlesL> Principles document examples for nonvisual reading  https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/issues/251
15:29:52 <CharlesL> Madeleine: detailed example had 4 sentences, and compact version had 3, and I think items may be swapped.
15:30:48 <CharlesL> agenda?
15:31:01 <CharlesL> charles: https://w3c.github.io/publ-a11y/UX-Guide-Metadata/draft/techniques/epub-metadata/index.html
15:37:14 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:37:33 <AvneeshSingh> ack madel
15:37:53 <CharlesL> Charles: recapped Hazards and Visual Adjustments.
15:38:01 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:39:00 <CharlesL> George: we revised the text for Appearance modifiable not known.
15:39:25 <CharlesL> AvneeshSingh:  we can discuss with the editors about unknown vs. missing hazards.
15:39:44 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:40:13 <CharlesL> George: in techniques we always use the compact language should we also use the detailed version?  do we need both in the principals?  or in the Techniques?
15:40:43 <CharlesL> Charles: we should ask Rick who isn't here.
15:40:48 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:40:48 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Issue #237: PDF crosswalk and techniques -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
15:40:50 <CharlesL> agenda?
15:40:57 <AvneeshSingh> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/issues/237
15:44:37 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:45:39 <CharlesL> Charles: reviewed the github issue.
15:46:26 <CharlesL> AvneeshSingh: will PDF use the schema.org accessibility metadata. would reduce the need crosswalk, would be simpler.
15:46:35 <CharlesL> ... I will comment in the github issue.
15:46:51 <CharlesL> ... ONIX side for PDF as well.
15:46:56 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:47:33 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:47:33 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Communication and promotion of the User experience guide. -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
15:47:46 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #pcg-a11y
15:47:53 <CharlesL> George: I brought this to the BISG and had DAISY people join their a11y metadata group. to get that in front of them.
15:47:57 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
15:48:38 <CharlesL> ... we can talk about how to promote this as we move forward.  I think folks need to know about it now even though its not finalized yet.
15:49:06 <CharlesL> AvneeshSingh: principles are really good but many would benefit from seeing this even in this editor state.
15:51:29 <CharlesL> ... next meeting 28'th of March
15:52:20 <AvneeshSingh> rrsagent, make minutes
15:52:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/14-pcg-a11y-minutes.html AvneeshSingh
15:52:32 <AvneeshSingh> rrsagent, make logs public
15:53:32 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, leave
15:53:34 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been AvneeshSingh, CharlesL, ChrisOliverOttawa, Bill_Kasdorf, George, Hadrien
15:53:34 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pcg-a11y
16:04:23 <gpellegrino> gpellegrino has joined #pcg-a11y
16:04:46 <gpellegrino> hi, not sure I have the right link for today's call