17:00:45 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webdriver
17:00:49 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/03/13-webdriver-irc
17:00:49 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #webdriver
17:01:20 <jgraham> Meeting: WebDriver
17:01:47 <jgraham> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebDriver/2024-03-BiDi#Agenda
17:01:53 <jgraham> Chair: AutomatedTester
17:02:20 <JimEvans> present+
17:02:34 <jgraham> RRSAgent: make logs public
17:02:37 <AutomatedTester> present+
17:02:42 <jgraham> RRSAgent: make minutes
17:02:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/13-webdriver-minutes.html jgraham
17:02:50 <sasha> present+
17:02:50 <AutomatedTester> Scribe: David Burns
17:02:50 <whimboo> present+
17:02:55 <jrandolf> present+
17:02:56 <jgraham> present+
17:02:57 <AutomatedTester> ScribeNick: AutomatedTester
17:03:00 <lightning00blade> present+
17:03:39 <MaksimSadym> present+
17:04:17 <MaksimSadym> I have to leave in 30 minutes
17:04:34 <shs96c> present+
17:04:42 <jdescottes> present+
17:05:17 <AutomatedTester> topic: Support for unloaded tabs
17:05:29 <AutomatedTester> github: https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/issues/656
17:05:58 <AutomatedTester> whimboo: This isnt a blocking topic at the moment but we will need to think about it in the future
17:06:22 <AutomatedTester> ... there could be cases where a tab doesnt have content window attached to it
17:06:56 <AutomatedTester> ... a lot of events will not be sent out if nthere isn't a content window attached
17:07:12 <AutomatedTester> ... so I wanted to see if there is a similar issue with chromium folks
17:07:20 <AutomatedTester> q?
17:07:32 <MaksimSadym> q+
17:08:32 <AutomatedTester> whimboo: this will be an issue with bidi as we can access tabs that are not currently focused. It's not an issue with webdriver classic
17:08:40 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:08:56 <jgraham> q+
17:09:05 <jrandolf> q+
17:09:13 <AutomatedTester> Maksim Sadym: we have a more or less similar issue when we do print or screenshot when the tab is not in focus
17:09:21 <AutomatedTester> ... I will try look at this in the next week
17:09:25 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:09:55 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: spec wise HTML doesn't have anything for this situation. We shoiuld probably raise an issue on that spec
17:10:35 <howard-e> howard-e has joined #webdriver
17:10:39 <AutomatedTester> ... as it's not really discribed
17:10:44 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:11:18 <AutomatedTester> jrandolf: could you precisely define unloaded
17:11:30 <howard-e> howard-e has left #webdriver
17:11:51 <jrandolf> q+
17:11:58 <AutomatedTester> whimboo: in our case with a tab when a content process in a tab. When the tab is unloaded there will not be a content process attached
17:12:05 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:12:07 <jgraham> q+
17:12:38 <AutomatedTester> jrandolf: could you hellp me understand when this occurs
17:12:40 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:13:13 <AutomatedTester> jgraham (IRC): in Firefox if you reload a session you will have tabs but they won't load any content until somene clicks on it
17:13:21 <jrandolf> q+
17:13:38 <AutomatedTester> ... but there are times where you want to tell a tab in automation to start loading by clicking on it
17:14:28 <AutomatedTester> ... there are some properties that are associated with the traversable from cache and other properties
17:14:51 <jrandolf> q+
17:14:56 <AutomatedTester> ... I think we need to file an issue on HTML and go speak to that group
17:15:02 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:15:40 <jgraham> A related situation is mobile when background tabs might be automatically unloaded
17:15:48 <AutomatedTester> jrandolf: for context in chromium there are specific commands that don't work if the tab doesn't have focus
17:15:55 <AutomatedTester> ... but the tree is fully loaded
17:15:59 <jdescottes> q+
17:16:15 <AutomatedTester> q?
17:16:35 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:17:16 <AutomatedTester> jdescottes: in CHromium there is memory saver which is very similar to what Firefox does in this case
17:17:29 <jrandolf> q+
17:17:36 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:18:37 <AutomatedTester> jrandolf: that's good to know. I can see what you are after and we will look into this and get back to you. I agree with jgraham (IRC) we should raise an HTML Spec issue
17:19:10 <AutomatedTester> action: Raise issue against HTML for Support for unloaded tabs
17:19:26 <AutomatedTester> topic:  RFC 182: Add WebDriver BiDi support to testdriver.js
17:19:35 <AutomatedTester> github: https://github.com/web-platform-tests/rfcs/pull/182
17:20:46 <AutomatedTester> sadym (IRC): we have started putting webdriver bidi into testdriver.js. Apologies to jgraham (IRC) for how we started it but we encourage everyone to have a look
17:22:30 <AutomatedTester> Topic: Clarify when files set with "input.setFiles" command should be considered equal to the selected files
17:22:41 <AutomatedTester> github: https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/issues/678
17:23:05 <AutomatedTester> sasha: The first thing is when we should fire the cancel event
17:24:25 <jrandolf> q+
17:25:46 <AutomatedTester> ... there are also cases where we are putting info into in and when we try retrieve it we don't get the same information and there are cases where we cant get this info from the HTML spec as it forbids it
17:25:53 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:26:35 <jgraham> q+
17:27:17 <AutomatedTester> jrandolf: I created the spec the way it is as it is for what the user would expected. I am not so picky in how we do this by adding a flag. I don't think an empty file list makes sense
17:27:37 <AutomatedTester> ... in the CDDL we have have it cancel or files
17:27:58 <AutomatedTester> ... we don';t want to influence the HTML spec here too much
17:28:02 <AutomatedTester> q?
17:28:05 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:28:36 <AutomatedTester> jgraham (IRC): I think the actual behaviour here is different between gecko/webkit/chromium
17:28:58 <AutomatedTester> ... a cancel event isn't fired in gecko but it does in chromium/webkit
17:29:12 <AutomatedTester> ... and a flag seems a natural way to do it
17:30:02 <AutomatedTester> ... we can have type attribute where it is a type cancel and type files but I haven't thought about it much
17:30:08 <AutomatedTester> q?
17:30:43 <AutomatedTester> topic: Add a step to validate if the files which a client tries to set with input.setFiles command exist
17:30:53 <AutomatedTester> github: https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/issues/677
17:31:21 <AutomatedTester> sasha: the question is should we error like webdriver classic if the file doesn't exist
17:32:15 <AutomatedTester> ... on the platform side we snapshot the file and then send it across and this can error
17:32:15 <jrandolf> q+
17:32:24 <AutomatedTester> ... does this make sense for everyone?
17:32:30 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:32:53 <AutomatedTester> jrandolf: On chromium we don't do validation until the file is read
17:33:35 <AutomatedTester> ... it is probably fine to write a normative note as it is platform specific to say this could throw an error
17:34:46 <AutomatedTester> ... in chromium we take a more relaxed sense since we don't expect people to send fake files and I know this came from wpt that was sending fake files
17:34:50 <jgraham> q+
17:34:58 <AutomatedTester> q?
17:35:22 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:35:52 <AutomatedTester> jgraham (IRC): I think there are definitely loads of situations where it could throw an error
17:36:26 <AutomatedTester> ... for most people they won't be sending fake files but we need to do it for testing the browser
17:36:46 <AutomatedTester> ... and appreciate it's a bit of a footgun but we can see if we can relax the requirement on our side
17:36:55 <AutomatedTester_> q?
17:37:10 <sasha> q+
17:37:37 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:38:13 <AutomatedTester> sasha: we have fixed wpt tests to make temporary files and we won't have to create any spec changes?
17:38:47 <AutomatedTester> jgraham (IRC): I think we should have the spec updated to say it's an invalid argument like classic
17:39:08 <AutomatedTester> topic: User prompt handlers
17:39:18 <AutomatedTester> github: https://github.com/w3c/webdriver/pull/1791
17:39:18 <jgraham> I note that is a position on whether Invalid Argument is only for things that can be detected from the schema; if we reject files for not existing then it isn't. So if we want that property we should invent a new error.
17:40:16 <AutomatedTester> jgraham (IRC): after working through handlers for user prompts in classic which shoulnd't change how we do things
17:40:31 <AutomatedTester> ... and now have something up for bidi
17:41:19 <AutomatedTester> ... in bidi we want to be notified before unload where in classic it was automatically handled
17:42:20 <AutomatedTester> ... whimboo has looked at this and since it's a new feature it would be good if other vendors can have a look
17:42:55 <AutomatedTester> ... one of the future items is that we can have the file dialog is handled this way
17:43:39 <AutomatedTester> ... as well as the classic PR there are also draft PRs on HTML and WebDriver Bidi
17:43:51 <AutomatedTester_> q?
17:44:46 <AutomatedTester> topic: Better pointer events
17:44:53 <AutomatedTester> github: https://github.com/w3c/webdriver/pull/1800
17:45:09 <jgraham> RRSAgent: make minutes
17:45:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/13-webdriver-minutes.html jgraham
17:45:27 <AutomatedTester> jrandolf: I brought up the issue as I was working on the tests in this section
17:45:56 <AutomatedTester> ... there are even some items that are not used by any browser
17:46:08 <jgraham> q+
17:47:00 <AutomatedTester> ... I think we're waiting on webkit for review here
17:47:21 <AutomatedTester> automatedtester: shs96c could you help find someone to review
17:47:25 <AutomatedTester> shs96c: will do
17:47:26 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:48:04 <AutomatedTester> jgraham (IRC): I think it is ok. It is technically a backwards incompatible change in our tests
17:48:21 <AutomatedTester> ... I think it's minor and hopefully a relatively safe change to make
17:48:23 <jrandolf> q+
17:48:40 <AutomatedTester> ... but it should be reviewed properly
17:49:45 <AutomatedTester> automatedtester: if I remember correctly this was originally done by microsoft so will reach out make make sure they are aware and will review
17:50:00 <jrandolf> q-
17:51:19 <jgraham> RRSAgent: make minutes
17:51:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/13-webdriver-minutes.html jgraham
17:51:27 <jgraham> zakim, bye
17:51:27 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been JimEvans, AutomatedTester, sasha, whimboo, jrandolf, jgraham, lightning00blade, MaksimSadym, shs96c, jdescottes
17:51:27 <Zakim> Zakim has left #webdriver
17:51:58 <jgraham> RRSAgent, bye
17:51:58 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in https://www.w3.org/2024/03/13-webdriver-actions.rdf :
17:51:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Raise issue against HTML for Support for unloaded tabs [1]
17:51:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2024/03/13-webdriver-irc#T17-19-10