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13:23:14 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:23:15 <Zakim> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
13:23:21 <lisa> scribe: becca
13:23:35 <lisa> scribe+ Becca
13:32:03 <lisa> agenda+
13:32:15 <lisa> agenda+ rminder calls: see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2024Mar/0022.html
13:35:09 <lisa> agenda+ Please look at Supported Decision Making - Issue Paper . Is there a section you want to work on? We will go over  the structure next week (hopefully)  . See https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g9N-_3l-d6t0ppZcIIZ98k00x7ZE7h3ayq0OCX9Ycu4/edit#heading=h.rhs6n8lpznbz
13:35:45 <lisa> agenda+ Review mental health propsal at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1K4tI9SV4lsDXzCdaEAXExeL3f061__Sy06lfGV9mLvY/edit . do we want to recommend more or less levels in a site, . Current proposal is not make a change or recommend site depth, but we want to bring up again with larger group
13:36:03 <lisa> ow do we write up citations in issue papers? Options : Reference the line number Links Full citations https://www.w3.org/Guide/manual-of-style/
13:36:42 <lisa> agenda+ does anyone need agenda time in two weeks time?
13:36:52 <lisa> agenda+ AG summary
13:37:06 <lisa> Agenda+ if time - ow do we write up citations in issue papers? Options : Reference the line number Links Full citations https://www.w3.org/Guide/manual-of-style/
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14:48:47 <lisa> RRSAgent, publish minutes
14:48:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/11-coga-minutes.html lisa
14:48:55 <lisa> agenda?
14:51:09 <lisa> agenda order is 1, 2,5, 3, 4, 6
14:52:14 <lisa> scribe+ Becca
14:52:50 <lisa> regrets+ Julie, Rain
14:52:58 <lisa> close item 5
14:59:19 <lisa> q?
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15:01:02 <Becca_Monteleone> present+
15:01:04 <JMcSorley> present+ Jan
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15:01:35 <Jennie> present+
15:01:37 <lisa> next item
15:01:40 <Becca_Monteleone> scribe+ Becca_Monteleone
15:02:41 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Reminder for Github Editor training call tomorrow, 7 March
15:03:25 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Added training section to main COGA wiki page, including link to IRC training, Github for editors, Github for members
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15:03:45 <jeanne_ec> present+
15:03:58 <rashmi> present+
15:04:26 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Github for Editors training includes key terms and processes for on- and offline editing
15:05:27 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Github for Members training page links to AG primer, as well as key terms for basic processes
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15:06:47 <tburtin> present+
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15:07:13 <Becca_Monteleone> Github Editor training tomorrow, 7 March, EST 9:00 AM CET 2:00 PM Uk 1:00 PM Israel 3:00 PM
15:07:30 <JMcSorley> Can we record the call tomorrow so that we have that available for review later?
15:07:54 <lisa> Q?
15:07:58 <Eric_hind> present+
15:08:21 <jeanne_ec> +1 for the recording
15:08:28 <kirkwood> present+
15:08:36 <lisa> present+
15:08:42 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Will try to record tomorrow
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15:08:45 <lisa> next item
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15:10:24 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Last week voted to make separate issue paper on supported decision-making. Lisa has started to compile elements of this paper from other documents and draft a structure.
15:10:32 <EA> Present+
15:11:58 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Created "to-do" tags on the document so people can contribute small sections at a time
15:12:12 <lisa> Q?
15:12:19 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Will review structure next week.
15:12:33 <lisa> next item
15:14:43 <lisa> q+
15:15:32 <lisa> ack lisa
15:15:33 <Becca_Monteleone> Rashmi: New proposal #13: Findability. Suggesting change in text re: appropriate type of hierarchy
15:16:35 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: This suggestion comes from a lot of research in mental health about findability. There is conflicting research about deep vs. flat hierarchies
15:17:35 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: current pattern 4.3.2 does not make reference to how deep a hierarchy should be
15:18:08 <lisa> q?
15:18:09 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Recommendation is to suggest testing with users based on the site's content
15:19:25 <Becca_Monteleone> John: Suggest focusing on methods for making things more findability (e.g. in-line search) rather than only focusing on hierarchy - since how flat or how deep is findable depends on individual cognitive load.
15:20:33 <Becca_Monteleone> John: There are conflicting access needs, so pointing to tools for finding vs. how to chunk seems important
15:21:27 <tburtin> q+
15:21:58 <Becca_Monteleone> John will look at current pattern on findability
15:22:11 <lisa> https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#make-the-site-hierarchy-easy-to-understand-and-navigate-pattern
15:22:46 <lisa> https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#objective-2-help-users-find-what-they-need-0
15:22:47 <JMcSorley> q+
15:22:55 <lisa> ack next
15:22:56 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Do we also need to recommend site maps?
15:24:21 <Becca_Monteleone> Tiffany: Utilizing multiple ways to navigate raises concerns about wording - on flat pages, can still be hard to find the correct information even with headings and find function
15:25:02 <lisa> ack next
15:25:09 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Can Tiffany and John come to next Mental Health subgroup to create a new proposal?
15:26:21 <Becca_Monteleone> Jan: has research explored utility of user being able to convert a modular design to a flat design? Making sure semantic markup follows - also interested in discussing the research on this
15:26:21 <JMcSorley> q-
15:28:06 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Current proposal does already reference redundant ways of finding content, which addresses some of these concerns
15:29:12 <Becca_Monteleone> Rashmi: research says that deeper hierarchy it is easier for users to go back; users more likely to get lost in flatter hierarchy
15:29:53 <rashmi> Research tracking doc https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eKNrofGubnpQE6mO-vxmI-1MW5nA2LDj0LxebREPRGA/edit?resourcekey#gid=1686096268
15:30:46 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: reviewing current research, there is not consensus, which led subgroup to think it is more about the content.
15:31:13 <lisa> proposal 8
15:31:14 <lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1K4tI9SV4lsDXzCdaEAXExeL3f061__Sy06lfGV9mLvY/edit#heading=h.lhdm88jj5cym
15:33:14 <Becca_Monteleone> Rashmi: revised proposal 8 - 8.1 recommends making it easy to go to starting directly. 8.2 deals with multistep processes.
15:35:53 <lisa> Q?
15:36:42 <Becca_Monteleone> John: question the word "starting point" for 8.1 instead of "homepage." Starting point more relevant for process (8.2)
15:37:23 <Jennie> q+
15:37:42 <Jennie> q-
15:37:58 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Will replace starting point with home page in 8.1
15:39:41 <Becca_Monteleone> Rashmi: reviewing proposed pattern 8.2: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1K4tI9SV4lsDXzCdaEAXExeL3f061__Sy06lfGV9mLvY/edit#heading=h.z6oo3zn072u6
15:39:59 <lisa> Q?
15:40:27 <Becca_Monteleone> John: Getting back to first step or just where you were in the process?
15:40:36 <lisa> proposal
15:40:38 <lisa>  8.1: Make it easy to return/go directly to home page of a site or sub- site.
15:41:01 <lisa> +1 is agree, 0 more time, -1 real issue
15:41:13 <lisa> +1
15:41:16 <Eric_hind> +1
15:41:18 <Becca_Monteleone> +1
15:41:22 <kirkwood> +1
15:41:24 <jeanne_ec> +1
15:41:24 <EA> +1
15:41:25 <Frankie> +1
15:41:29 <Jennie> +1
15:41:31 <rashmi> +1
15:41:34 <tburtin> I have questions about the wording.
15:42:44 <Becca_Monteleone> Tiffany: language around "returning to a subpage" is not clear to me.
15:43:42 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Subsite in 8.1 refers to different homepages nested in a larger site (e.g. departments in a university). Both should be clear to navigate to.
15:45:48 <Becca_Monteleone> Tiffany: wording around clear menu navigation or page navigation?
15:46:17 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Already covered in content usable Objective 2
15:46:40 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: This new proposed objective specifically calls out homepage and/or first step
15:48:18 <Becca_Monteleone> Tiffany: The word subsite is still not clear in 8.1. Sounds like these are major navigation sections.
15:48:31 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Call for suggestions for a clearer term to differentiate
15:49:02 <Becca_Monteleone> Tiffany: major navigation page, landing page?
15:49:27 <Jennie> q+
15:49:27 <Becca_Monteleone> Jan: Landing page and home page are the same to me.
15:50:19 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: We are trying to call attention to when there is a new template for a specific section of a site.
15:50:21 <EA> "A landing page is a standalone web page that a person "lands" on after clicking through from an email, ad, or other digital location" https://mailchimp.com/marketing-glossary/landing-pages   Seems to have several meanings!
15:50:57 <rashmi> q+
15:51:39 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: want to be able to recommend not only going to homepage of website, but first page of specific section
15:52:00 <lisa> ack next
15:53:25 <Becca_Monteleone> Jennie: one place this comes up was the employment section of an organization's website. Like "relevant landing page" but maybe add additional explanation - like "for a major section" or "a group of webpages"
15:53:26 <JMcSorley> maybe "section landing pages?"
15:53:55 <JMcSorley> I think the use of the term "relevant" might be confusing
15:54:07 <Jennie> ack Jennie
15:54:11 <Becca_Monteleone> Jennie: make a note that we should use the same language as WCAG 3
15:54:44 <kirkwood> i like: a landing page of a section of a site
15:55:14 <lisa> q?
15:55:50 <JMcSorley> +1 to John's wording on landing page
15:56:16 <Becca_Monteleone> Rashmi: some confusion around "landing page" for when you go to a page through an external link.
15:56:23 <Jennie> q+
15:56:41 <JMcSorley> I agree with Rashmi - the use of the term landing page can be the same as a home page
15:56:53 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: will define landing page.
15:57:00 <lisa> ack next
15:57:04 <lisa> ack next
15:57:37 <Jennie> ack Jennie
15:57:45 <Becca_Monteleone> Jennie: to a user, landing page is the place they arrived at; to a designer, it may be different because of site design.
15:58:12 <Jennie> * Rashmi - I am glad you brought up that perspective.
15:58:26 <tburtin> +1 Jennie I recognize balancing the definition between user and developer/designer.
15:58:33 <lisa> Make it easy to return/go directly to the home page of a site or relevant  landing page of a set of Web pages. (to change with wcag
15:58:40 <lisa> +1 is agree, 0 more time, -1 real issue
15:58:49 <tburtin> +1
15:58:53 <Eric_hind> +1
15:58:59 <Frankie> +1
15:59:00 <kirkwood> +1
15:59:01 <Becca_Monteleone> +1
15:59:10 <JMcSorley> +1
15:59:21 <Jennie> +1
15:59:23 <Becca_Monteleone> I need to leave for another meeting - sorry!
15:59:40 <lisa> New Pattern 8.2: Allow the user to  return directly to the starting point of a multistep process
15:59:49 <lisa> +1 is agree, 0 more time, -1 real issue
16:00:06 <tburtin> +1
16:00:11 <lisa> +1
16:00:24 <Eric_hind> +1
16:00:39 <rashmi> +1
16:00:59 <JMcSorley> +1
16:01:24 <EA> Trying to catch up but I think +1
16:02:14 <kirkwood> +1
16:02:16 <lisa> john thinks it is ok, but we need to look at objective 2 all together as a draft
16:03:09 <lisa> RRSAgent, publish minutes
16:03:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/11-coga-minutes.html lisa
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