13:01:01 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot
13:01:05 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/03/06-wot-irc
13:01:06 <luca_barbato> luca_barbato has joined #wot
13:01:44 <mahda-noura> present+ Mahda_Noura
13:02:11 <McCool_> McCool_ has joined #wot
13:02:21 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG/IG
13:03:07 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Ege_Korkan, Kunihiko_Toumura, Luca_Barbato, Michael_Koster,Tomoaki_Mizushima
13:03:32 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#6_March_2024
13:06:01 <kaz> present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch
13:06:43 <dezell> dezell has joined #wot
13:06:45 <kaz> q+
13:06:55 <dezell> present+ David_Ezell
13:07:00 <sebastian> sebastian has joined #wot
13:07:02 <kaz> topic: Guests, IEs
13:07:19 <kaz> q?
13:07:58 <gkellogg> gkellogg has joined #wot
13:08:19 <kaz> scribe+
13:08:34 <sebastian> MM: any new members or guests?
13:08:36 <sebastian> no
13:08:38 <kaz> mm: no guests here but one possible IE application being discussed
13:08:42 <sebastian> topic: minutes
13:09:01 <sebastian> MM: reviewed them in yesterday's chair's call
13:09:13 <kaz> i|rev|-> https://www.w3.org/2024/02/28-wot-minutes.html Feb-28|
13:09:13 <sebastian> any objections?
13:09:14 <sebastian> no
13:09:26 <kaz> s/MM: any new members or guests?//
13:09:28 <sebastian> minutes approved
13:09:43 <sebastian> topic: Quick items
13:09:55 <kaz> i/revie/scribenick: sebastian/
13:10:00 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
13:10:07 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:10:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/06-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:10:16 <kaz> q+
13:10:16 <sebastian> MM: be awaere of the daylight saving changes
13:10:38 <sebastian> ... starts in US next week
13:11:00 <kaz> [ the call starts one hour earlier in Europe and Japan ]
13:11:06 <sebastian> subtopic: IG charter
13:11:08 <kaz> q+
13:11:12 <Ege_> Ege_ has joined #wot
13:11:24 <sebastian> MM: wide review is ongoing
13:11:38 <mjk> mjk has joined #wot
13:11:55 <sebastian> .. there are some comments
13:11:59 <kaz> i|wide|-> https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/440 strategy issue 440 for the IG Charter|
13:12:07 <kaz> scribe+
13:12:12 <kaz> kaz: will handle them
13:12:14 <sebastian> Kaz: there are missing tags
13:12:19 <kaz> scribe-
13:12:23 <sebastian> ... will look into the bugs
13:12:33 <kaz> s/kaz: will handle them//
13:12:45 <kaz> i/there are/scribenick: sebastian/
13:12:46 <sebastian> subtopic: W3C Breakout Day
13:12:50 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:12:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/06-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:13:14 <matsuda> matsuda has joined #wot
13:13:32 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/1178 Issue to gather ideas
13:13:33 <sebastian> MM: there are two calls, one is about schemata
13:13:51 <sebastian> .. another one is about registries
13:14:14 <kaz> i|there are|-> https://github.com/w3c/breakouts-day-2024/issues/15 breakout issue 15 - Schemata Discussion - Follow up from TPAC23
13:14:42 <kaz> i|there are|-> https://github.com/w3c/breakouts-day-2024/issues/18 breakout issue 18 - Registries for W3C Specifications|
13:14:48 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:14:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/06-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:15:27 <sebastian> <MM updates the times at the wiki>
13:15:32 <kaz> q+
13:16:10 <sebastian> EK: do you have people you want me to contact?
13:16:34 <sebastian> MM: would be good to know who is already invited?
13:17:19 <sebastian> ... would be good people from JSON Schema
13:17:40 <sebastian> and SHACL
13:17:44 <kaz> q?
13:17:53 <sebastian> ... for the registry, DID would be good
13:19:07 <dezell> q+
13:19:19 <McCool_> ack k
13:19:33 <sebastian> Kaz: some more exoerts from other groups should be invited such as DID
13:19:46 <sebastian> s/exoerts/experts
13:19:48 <kaz> ack
13:19:53 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:19:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/06-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:20:19 <kaz> chair: McCool, Koster, Sebastian
13:20:31 <McCool_> q+
13:20:42 <sebastian> DK: I chaired XML Schema Working Group, many people are now retired
13:21:16 <kaz> present+ Tetsushi_Matsuda
13:21:23 <kaz> q?
13:21:25 <kaz> ack d
13:21:43 <sebastian> ... we should invite Piere Antoine (?)
13:22:28 <sebastian> subtopic: Profile
13:23:35 <kaz> s/Piere Antoine (?)/the Team Contact of the DID WG/
13:23:47 <kaz> i/subtopic/kaz: that's Pierre-Antoine :)/
13:24:01 <sebastian> MM: Profile starts next week
13:24:07 <Ege_> q+
13:24:11 <Ege_> ack m
13:24:33 <Ege_> ack e
13:25:20 <sebastian> ... 12. March-13 UTC, however, this conflicts with the w3c breakout day
13:25:23 <kaz> i/that's P/scribenick: kaz/
13:25:34 <kaz> i/Profile start/scribenick: sebastian/
13:25:40 <sebastian> MM: ok, lets postpone profile call for one week
13:25:41 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:25:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/06-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:26:03 <sebastian> MM: is this ok for you, Luca?
13:26:22 <sebastian> LB: is ok for me
13:26:48 <sebastian> ... I will have a prepearation meeting with Michael Lagally this week
13:27:14 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/97f4d945-dba3-4461-be33-f2cc110af348/20240319T080000/ WoT Profile Calendar
13:27:15 <sebastian> s/prepearation/preparation
13:27:30 <sebastian> topic: Meetups
13:27:58 <sebastian> subtopic: WoT CG
13:28:09 <kaz> s/lets/let's/
13:28:11 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:28:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/06-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:28:31 <sebastian> EK: next meeting is planned March 14
13:28:56 <sebastian> ... there is a presentation about Matter from Deutsche Telekom
13:29:03 <kaz> q?
13:29:10 <sebastian> subtopic: WoT JP CG
13:29:24 <kaz> q+
13:29:25 <sebastian> MM: next meeting in 2 days
13:29:31 <gkellogg> gkellogg has joined #wot
13:29:48 <sebastian> subtopic: Nordic Smart Cities and WoT CG
13:29:53 <Ege_> +1
13:30:00 <sebastian> MM: no news
13:30:04 <kaz> s/meeting/meeting on WoT Security/
13:30:08 <sebastian> .. next meeting March 18
13:30:19 <kaz> s/+1//
13:30:46 <sebastian> Kaz: should move this to Liaisons section
13:30:53 <sebastian> MM: yes
13:31:17 <sebastian> subtopic: Other
13:31:46 <sebastian> EK: WoT presentation at the HiveMQ Community Event on March 26
13:32:00 <sebastian> topic: Meeting Schedule Changes
13:32:34 <sebastian> <MM shows the latest cancellations entries>
13:32:34 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#Holidays_and_Upcoming_Events Holidays and Cancellations
13:33:03 <sebastian> MM: any holidays to be aweare of?
13:33:48 <kaz> q+
13:33:56 <sebastian> q?
13:34:06 <kaz> ack k
13:34:17 <sebastian> q+
13:34:36 <kaz> Mar 12:
13:34:36 <kaz> Defer start of Profile call to Mar 19.
13:34:36 <kaz> Mar 20:
13:34:36 <kaz> Use Case call is cancelled.
13:34:37 <sebastian> MM: is it ok cancel main call on March 20?
13:34:39 <sebastian> no
13:34:47 <kaz> s/20/20 also/
13:34:56 <sebastian> s/no/no objections
13:35:28 <kaz> q?
13:35:48 <kaz> sk: also we should think about Hannover Fair
13:36:01 <kaz> ... because that's a very big industry show
13:36:23 <kaz> i/also/scribenick: kaz/
13:36:31 <kaz> scribenick: mahda-noura
13:37:28 <mahda-noura> Topic: F2F Planning
13:38:49 <mahda-noura> sebastian: Web of Things event planned from Siemens standardization, and to show how WoT is used in products and industry ompared to the event in 2019
13:38:50 <kaz> i|F2F|-> https://www.hannovermesse.de/en/hannover-messe-2024/ Hannover Fair 2024|
13:39:07 <kaz> s/ompared/compared/
13:39:16 <mahda-noura> ...he liked to plan this event in June, do we want to have beside this special event a plugfest?
13:39:27 <kaz> q+
13:39:54 <dezell2> dezell2 has joined #wot
13:39:57 <mahda-noura> ...in the chairs called last week we discussed about this, and wondered how many people will be able to travel to such an event considering the limited budget and travel restrictions of companies
13:40:09 <kaz> s/he liked/my boss would like/
13:40:22 <mahda-noura> ...we should think about this question and ask your company if its possible to travel
13:40:28 <kaz> s/called last/call last/
13:40:31 <mahda-noura> ...the event will take place in Berlin
13:40:40 <kaz> q
13:40:53 <mahda-noura> mm: do we want to do an email survey?
13:41:13 <mahda-noura> sebastian: we could maybe setup a wiki page where people could mention their availability
13:41:24 <mahda-noura> mm: lets try to make a draft ready
13:41:33 <kaz> s/lets/let's/
13:41:45 <mahda-noura> ...I think we need to do a concrete proposal
13:42:09 <mahda-noura> ...I will be able to attend with high probability
13:42:37 <mahda-noura> ...There is some work I am involved with Microsoft regarding AI, we could have a AI theme too
13:42:57 <mahda-noura> sebastian: lets make a draft in the chairs call
13:43:08 <mahda-noura> mm: see who could do demos and talks
13:43:08 <sebastian> sorry, I have to leave the meeting
13:43:46 <mahda-noura> kaz: probably I agree we should clarify logistic and create a dedicated wiki page, for that purpose we need to clarify the estimated date and content and additional discussion
13:44:06 <mahda-noura> mm: we will create a wiki page and clarify those things and try to get all stakeholders to agree to the plan
13:44:18 <mahda-noura> Topic: Resources
13:44:20 <kaz> s/probably //
13:44:29 <mahda-noura> mm: Is there any updates?
13:44:33 <kaz> s/for that purpose/for that purpose, probably/
13:44:46 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:44:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/06-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:44:54 <kaz> ack k
13:45:04 <kaz> q+
13:45:07 <kaz> ack s
13:45:21 <kaz> q-
13:45:21 <mahda-noura> mm: my hope is that there will be eventually a policy regarding semantic versioning, the discovery is proceeding under a assumption on version policy
13:45:32 <mahda-noura> mm: is the TD TF taking a lead on this?
13:45:44 <Ege_> q+
13:45:47 <mahda-noura> mjk: yes, we are expected to report in the next TD call
13:45:54 <kaz> q?
13:46:38 <mahda-noura> mm: we updated our rendering in the discovery, the blue boxes are because of the domain and range not present, we recently transferred a issue under the TD directory for security ontology
13:46:44 <mahda-noura> mm: I suggest we fix that first
13:47:06 <mahda-noura> ege: we should have a good proposal in the next TD call
13:47:14 <kaz> i|we updated|-> https://w3c.github.io/wot-discovery/context/discovery-ontology.html Web of Things (WoT) Discovery Ontology (Editor's Draft)|
13:47:22 <mahda-noura> ...the semantic versioning is only one small aspect of the versioning topic
13:47:32 <kaz> q+
13:47:35 <kaz> ack e
13:47:55 <Ege_> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1969
13:47:59 <mahda-noura> ...today in the TD call, we will discuss what are the requirements for versioning
13:48:17 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
13:48:32 <kaz> s/1969/1969 wot-thing-description PR 1969 - WIP: Concrete Versioning Proposal|
13:48:40 <kaz> s/sal|/sal/
13:48:46 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:48:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/06-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:48:54 <mahda-noura> mm: As part of our rendering of the ontology, we have a template, we also have a changelog, and the final resource will output the release
13:49:05 <kaz> q
13:49:14 <mahda-noura> ...we need to do some work to align with the TD script
13:49:39 <gkellogg> gkellogg has joined #wot
13:49:42 <mahda-noura> ege: we need to seperate the versioning from the toolchain for now, the versioning is about the outputs
13:49:56 <mahda-noura> mm: my intention is that the output needs to be consistent
13:50:51 <mahda-noura> kaz:Michael Mccool and the discovery guys have been working on a proposal, we should make a consolidation. We should also include David as an expert
13:51:07 <mahda-noura> kaz: would you be available for todays TD call or next week main call?
13:51:34 <mahda-noura> mm: lets wait until the work in progress policy is done, and in two weeks from now we plan and put on the agenda
13:52:05 <kaz> s/todays TD call or next week main call?/today's TD call, tomorrow's TD call or main call next week?/
13:52:09 <mahda-noura> mm: maybe 21st March to have a joint call
13:52:14 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:52:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/06-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:52:38 <kaz> q?
13:53:25 <mahda-noura> mm: A note added on the agenda
13:53:31 <kaz> s/joint call/joint discussion during the TD call/
13:53:32 <kaz> ack k
13:53:48 <kaz> [ that is Mar 21 at 9am EDT ]
13:54:20 <mahda-noura> mm: does anyone else who wants to report on the TF reports
13:54:55 <mahda-noura> ege: we have an issue in finding a timesolt in the marketting call, once we consider the chairs and kaz it gets tricky
13:55:23 <mahda-noura> mm: proposal could be once a month you guys join the chairs call
13:55:28 <kaz> i/we have/subtopic: Marketing TF/
13:55:39 <kaz> i/does any/topic: TF Reports/
13:55:47 <mahda-noura> mm: lets dicuss this in the chair meeting next time
13:55:50 <kaz> q+
13:56:02 <kaz> s/lets/let's/
13:56:15 <mahda-noura> kaz: we probably need to do a doodle
13:56:35 <mahda-noura> mm: in the doodle add half an hour after the new chairs call as one of the options
13:56:38 <kaz> action: kaz to create a doodle to find a possible slot for Marketing (first call of the month)
13:56:46 <kaz> ack k
13:56:46 <mahda-noura> ege: I think it would fit well in the chairs call
13:57:28 <mahda-noura> mm: would be helpful to setup a doodle
13:57:35 <Ege_> q+
13:57:36 <mahda-noura> ...any other reports?
13:57:58 <kaz> ack e
13:58:06 <kaz> q+
13:58:27 <mahda-noura> ege: not only from the TD, but would affect others. The project management proposal is more concrete. We looked with Michael Koster and Kaz, I would send the rendered version and pull request
13:58:37 <Ege_> Rendered Version: https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/blob/ege-project-management/proposals/project-management/project-management.md
13:58:38 <mahda-noura> mm: is it a policy?
13:58:44 <mahda-noura> ege: it is a process
13:58:49 <Ege_> PR: https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1977
13:58:59 <mahda-noura> kaz: I would suggest to finalize the draft today in the TD call
13:59:16 <kaz> s/call/call first, and then send it to the whole group/
13:59:18 <mahda-noura> mm: maybe we can finalize the versioning and project management together in the main TD call
13:59:20 <kaz> q?
13:59:22 <kaz> ack k
13:59:26 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:59:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/06-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:59:36 <mahda-noura> subtopic: Architecture
14:00:10 <kaz> q+
14:00:34 <mahda-noura> mm: We will defer it until the profiles get going
14:00:54 <kaz> ack k
14:00:57 <mahda-noura> kaz: we can discuss how to handle the architecture in the main call
14:01:15 <mahda-noura> mm: we should focus on giving profiles speed until we find someone to work on the architecture
14:02:23 <gkellogg> gkellogg has joined #wot
14:03:19 <kaz> s/we can discuss how to handle the architecture in the main call/We'll restart the Profile TF in two weeks, and the TF probably will discuss what to be done by the Profile TF and the Profile document, then bring the feedback to the main call. We can discuss how to handle the Architecture during the main call at that time./
14:03:36 <kaz> s/we should/right. we should/
14:03:48 <kaz> [ break till 10 mins past ]
14:03:50 <McCool_> topic: Policies
14:03:55 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:03:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/06-wot-minutes.html kaz
14:04:10 <McCool_> mm: let's go for 30m only since some people have to leave early
14:04:16 <McCool_> mk: ok
14:04:27 <mjk> mjk has joined #wot
14:04:39 <kaz> s/[ break till 10 mins past ]//
14:05:24 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/labels/Policy Policy Issues and PRs
14:06:11 <McCool_> subtopic: Assertion IDs
14:06:12 <mjk> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1181
14:06:19 <McCool_> mk: PR #1181
14:06:32 <kaz> s|https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1181|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1181 PR 1181 - Assertion id policy proposal|
14:06:43 <kaz> i/let's go for/scribenick: McCool_/
14:06:47 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:06:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/06-wot-minutes.html kaz
14:07:07 <McCool_> ege: lots of variations in ids, not consistent
14:07:29 <kaz> i|lots|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/cc1a8fee23fe3ca43e3f453d51647fa855acd027/proposals/policies/assertion-id.md rendered assertion-id.md|
14:07:32 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:07:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/06-wot-minutes.html kaz
14:07:39 <McCool_> ... for TD spec, agreed to always start with td or tm
14:07:59 <McCool_> q+
14:08:22 <McCool_> ege: also, if there are subsections, best to include those
14:08:41 <kaz> q+
14:08:53 <mjk> q?
14:10:17 <McCool_> mm: also, please don't use section *numbers* - they change!
14:10:30 <kaz> ack m
14:10:40 <McCool_> ... also, don't do sub-sub-sections, just two levels is enough
14:11:02 <McCool_> ege: include doc prefix so can recognize if taken out of context
14:11:23 <McCool_> mm: agree; within a doc, redundant, but helpful if taken out of context
14:11:51 <McCool_> ... so agree with prefixes; also ok with both td and tm
14:12:01 <Ege_> +1 to kaz
14:12:43 <McCool_> kaz: could define a template, eg. PP-SS-DESC
14:12:46 <mjk> q?
14:13:05 <McCool_> ... would also be good to define each prefix
14:13:15 <McCool_> mm: I think the prefixes are clear from context
14:13:40 <kaz> ack k
14:13:56 <McCool_> kaz: editors and group participants can tell, but would be good to have a description
14:14:11 <McCool_> mm: where would the description go?
14:14:34 <McCool_> ... the implementation report?  The readme?
14:14:48 <mjk> q+
14:15:37 <kaz> q?
14:15:40 <kaz> q+
14:15:43 <McCool_> mjk: would make sense to make a little formal spec, maybe in the policy
14:15:52 <McCool_> q+
14:15:56 <McCool_> ack mjk
14:16:36 <McCool_> ege: can add a bit to the current PR
14:16:49 <McCool_> mm: I think the current PR is moving in the right direction, however
14:17:33 <McCool_> kaz: for assertionid.md itself, would explain what's wrong with each incorrect example, how it should be fixed
14:17:57 <McCool_> ... but policy should also state that assertion id formats and prefixes should be defined in IRs
14:18:23 <kaz> s/IRs/Implementation Reports/
14:18:56 <McCool_> subtopic: Chair Decision Process
14:19:14 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1128 PR 1128 - [Policy] Move chair-decision-process.md from "proposals" to "policies"
14:19:34 <McCool_> mm: I made the suggested changes, removed "voting"
14:19:45 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/62050f79d1cca5032b80e9b50c7fd707650f77de/policies/README.md rendered proposal
14:20:08 <McCool_> ... still have a 2/3 quorum
14:21:26 <kaz> s|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/62050f79d1cca5032b80e9b50c7fd707650f77de/policies/README.md|https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/62050f79d1cca5032b80e9b50c7fd707650f77de/policies/chair-decision-process.md|
14:21:40 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
14:21:44 <McCool_> mm: but should remove the "no more than a day earlier"
14:21:45 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:21:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/06-wot-minutes.html kaz
14:21:57 <kaz> q+
14:22:01 <McCool_> mjk: ok (removes clause)
14:22:04 <McCool_> ack m
14:22:43 <McCool_> kaz: quorum is still there
14:23:45 <McCool_> mm: yes; note that 1 chair can't make unilateral decisions
14:23:50 <McCool_> mjk: but two can
14:24:49 <mjk> q?
14:25:10 <McCool_> kaz: opinion is that we should stick to consensus and just wait until we get all three
14:25:13 <kaz> ack k
14:27:34 <McCool_> mm: suggest we add a line of the form "However, if possible, when a chair cannot attend..."
14:28:00 <McCool_> ... the "if possible" is to cover the case when we do have to make an immediate decision
14:28:54 <McCool_> kaz: what about team contacts input?
14:29:14 <McCool_> mjk: true, we haven't a problem
14:29:21 <kaz> s/contacts/contact's/
14:29:45 <Ege_> I need to go. See you in the TD call soon :)
14:30:06 <kaz> q+
14:30:20 <kaz> s/I need to go. See you in the TD call soon :)//
14:30:21 <kaz> q-
14:30:36 <McCool_> mm: suggest we don't merge this PR for now - can discuss further in chairs' call
14:30:49 <McCool_> mjk: out of time, adjourn
14:31:06 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:31:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/06-wot-minutes.html kaz
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