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14:59:11 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:59:12 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), matatk
14:59:17 <matatk> agenda?
14:59:41 <PaulG> PaulG has joined #apa
14:59:45 <PaulG> present+
14:59:50 <matatk> Chair:  Matthew
14:59:52 <Fazio> present+
14:59:53 <niklasegger> niklasegger has joined #apa
14:59:58 <Roy> present+
15:00:01 <niklasegger> present+
15:00:01 <matatk> meeting: APA Weekly Teleconf
15:00:18 <matatk> agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
15:00:48 <kirkwood> kirkwood has joined #APA
15:00:50 <matatk> agenda+ New Charters Review
15:01:01 <matatk> agenda+ Explicit Review Requests
15:01:11 <matatk> agenda+ A11y Review Comment Tracker
15:01:14 <Fredrik> Fredrik has joined #apa
15:01:17 <Fredrik> present+
15:01:23 <matatk> agenda+ New on TR - http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
15:01:32 <matatk> agenda+ CSS Update (Paul) - https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues
15:01:46 <matatk> agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) - https://github.com/w3c/apa/labels/action
15:01:59 <matatk> agenda+ Dangling Spec Review Cleanup
15:02:10 <matatk> agenda+ Task Force & Deliverables Updates
15:02:19 <matatk> agenda+ Other Business
15:02:29 <matatk> agenda+ Be done
15:02:33 <matatk> agenda?
15:02:54 <matatk> present+
15:03:18 <janina> present+
15:03:22 <nehaj> nehaj has joined #apa
15:03:23 <Fredrik> scribe: Fredrik
15:04:31 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
15:04:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-apa-minutes.html matatk
15:04:39 <nehaj> present+
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15:04:47 <Nichole> present+
15:04:52 <matatk> zakim, next item
15:04:52 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from matatk]
15:05:09 <matatk> present+ Irfan
15:05:33 <matatk> Irfan: I sent out an email about CSS Speech - there was recent discussion of it; there is still not widespread support.
15:06:31 <mike_beganyi> mike_beganyi has joined #apa
15:07:04 <mike_beganyi> present+
15:07:14 <Fredrik> matatk: This is more of an announcmemt for us.
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15:08:20 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+
15:08:23 <Fredrik> matatk: We have been learning abou thte Github bot (GB). When we go through the horizaontal review section, it gets a little chatty when it thinks we are talking about our issues when we are actually talking of issues of others.
15:08:41 <Fredrik> matatk: I will shut GB up temporarily when we do horizontal review for this reason.
15:09:24 <Fredrik> zakim, open next item
15:09:24 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- New Charters Review -- taken up [from matatk]
15:10:55 <matatk> gb, off
15:10:55 <gb> matatk, OK.
15:11:13 <Fredrik> Roy: Nothing new here.
15:11:21 <matatk> zakim, next item
15:11:21 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Explicit Review Requests -- taken up [from matatk]
15:11:31 <Roy> subtopic: DeviceOrientation Event Specification
15:11:31 <Roy> - issue: https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues/71
15:11:31 <Roy> - spec: https://www.w3.org/TR/orientation-event/
15:11:31 <Roy> - self-review: https://github.com/w3c/deviceorientation/issues/131
15:11:35 <Fredrik> Roy: Yes. There is one.
15:12:21 <Fredrik> Roy: They have created an a11y request and have done a self review as well, both through comment review and a11y/request.
15:12:33 <Fredrik> Roy: It provides new physical orientation DOM events.
15:13:15 <Fredrik> Roy: They have marked some a11y issues in their self review.
15:13:54 <Fredrik> matatk: The Devices and Sensors WG, weve worked witht them before. They maintain the Compute Pressure API spec and others such as the Device Posture spec. They are receptive to a11y considerations.
15:14:12 <niklasegger> q+
15:14:24 <Fredrik> matatk: I'm not hugely familiar with this spec. It's porbably worth thinking about it for a while to see if there may be a11y considerations.
15:14:52 <Fredrik> janina: We wanted the ability to lock a particular orientation. For a screen reader user, in particular, you may want to keep things in a certain mode even though you turn your device over.
15:15:45 <Fazio> cognitive considerations as well
15:16:22 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, who is here?
15:16:22 <Zakim> Present: PaulG, Fazio, Roy, niklasegger, Fredrik, matatk, janina, nehaj, Nichole, Irfan, mike_beganyi, Lionel_Wolberger
15:16:24 <Zakim> On IRC I see Lionel_Wolberger, mike_beganyi, Nichole, nehaj, Fredrik, niklasegger, PaulG, RRSAgent, Fazio, Zakim, matatk, wendyreid, Roy, janina, M2cshkpcgrp, matrix638,
15:16:24 <Zakim> ... AnthonySpencer, sonicscrewdriver, gonzu_15, SintayewGashaw, imlostlmao, joraboi445, gb, slightlyoff, Rachael, cwilso, tink, ada, jcraig, agendabot
15:16:31 <Fredrik> matatk: It does talk about rotation. I've kind of skipped over that. WE have an expecation fo what we will find there.
15:16:51 <Fredrik> janina: That is an old comment form us.
15:16:57 <Fredrik> matatk: There is device orientation and then there is device motion: accelerometer stuff.
15:17:34 <Roy> q?
15:17:35 <Fredrik> matatk: There's permissions for gyroscope and magnetometer and so on.
15:17:59 <PaulG> q+
15:18:50 <Fredrik> Fredrik: I'll look at it, happily.
15:19:18 <Fredrik> niklasegger: I just wanted to add: I had a look at the documetn before the meeting. There is a section for Use Cases and Requirements. They give axamples.
15:19:54 <matatk> q+
15:19:57 <matatk> ack niklasegger
15:20:01 <matatk> ack PaulG
15:20:03 <Fredrik> niklasegger: There are issues such as shaking to clear a web form where I thought of persons with uncontrolled movement. I'll also happily look at it, perhaps in tandem?
15:20:06 <Fredrik> Fredrik: Gladly.
15:20:10 <Fredrik> niklasegger: Done!
15:20:21 <Fredrik> PaulG: Fixed devices would also be a problem here.
15:20:43 <Fredrik> PaulG: What they are uilding up to is a bunch of permissions. Tehre will be opting ins and by default these things should be off. I hope that's where they are going with this.
15:21:18 <Fredrik> PaulG: How do we fall on fingerprintable permissions in this? Is that somethign we are worreid about because the persons we are talking about can be fringerprinted for disabilities and so on?
15:21:24 <Fredrik> matatk: Excellent point and question.
15:21:42 <Fredrik> matatk: First off, this group is really hot on things like fingerprinting and stuff like that. If we discuss it with them, I'm sure the discussion will be productive.
15:22:24 <matatk> Design Principles: https://w3ctag.github.io/design-principles/
15:22:26 <PaulG> https://www.w3.org/TR/fingerprinting-guidance/
15:22:31 <PaulG> this?
15:22:37 <Fredrik> matatk: There is guidance on issues around privacy and fingerprinting in the Design Principe doc which the TAG maintains.janSecurity and privacy are horizontal review things that every spec should get from W3C itself, so iot isn't just up to us or on us.
15:26:31 <Fredrik> matatk: Short discussion on what fingerprinting is.
15:27:01 <Fredrik> matatk: As to Paul#s question: I don't think that htere is any specific fingerprinting guidance around a11y. Maybe that is somethign we want to add as a note in the Design Principles.
15:27:10 <Lionel_Wolberger> s/Pincipe/Principle
15:27:32 <matatk> q?
15:27:56 <Lionel_Wolberger> s/worreid/worried
15:28:02 <Lionel_Wolberger> rrsagent,make minutes
15:28:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-apa-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
15:28:41 <Lionel_Wolberger> rrsagent, make minutes
15:29:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-apa-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
15:29:17 <matatk> APA tracking issue for this spec: https://github.com/w3c/a11y-review/issues/182
15:29:19 <Fredrik> matatk: When you, Niklas and Fredrik, are looking at this, we need to go thorugh the review process. For reporting your results there is a trackign issue that has been created. You're welcome to put thoughts on teh mailing list as you go as well as putting them in teh Github issue. Whichever works.
15:29:19 <Lionel_Wolberger> s/Principe/Principle
15:29:19 <Fredrik> matatk: My plan is to comment on this issue and link back to the minutes so we don't miss them.
15:29:22 <Lionel_Wolberger> s/somethign/something
15:29:27 <matatk> zakim, next item
15:29:27 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, matatk
15:29:30 <matatk> q?
15:29:31 <matatk> ack me
15:29:33 <matatk> zakim, next item
15:29:33 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- A11y Review Comment Tracker -- taken up [from matatk]
15:30:05 <Fredrik> Roy: Nothing new on the comment tracker.
15:30:13 <matatk> https://github.com/w3c/a11y-review/issues
15:30:51 <Fredrik> matatk: This is he repo where we receive tracking issues from someone asking for our input. It can be anywhere on Github: if someone, whoever, asks for our input on any a11y issue, it will be created as an issue here.
15:33:52 <Fredrik> zakim, open next item
15:33:52 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- New on TR - http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html -- taken up [from matatk]
15:34:04 <Roy> subtopic: CSS Viewport Module Level 1
15:34:04 <Roy> - tracker: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/CSS_Viewport_Module_Level_1
15:34:04 <Roy> - spec: https://www.w3.org/TR/css-viewport-1/
15:34:10 <Fredrik> Roy: There is one.
15:35:00 <Fredrik> matatk: Github issues come form a specific publication whereas Wiki tracking gives us more context.
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15:37:03 <Fredrik> PaulG: I think I'm fine with this one.
15:37:13 <Fredrik> matatk: I think this is just viewport bounds and zoom.
15:37:35 <Fredrik> PaulG: When zoomed, do you keep the same coordinates or do you change them and report that? Something along those lines.
15:38:06 <Fredrik> matatk: This is an FPWD so we haven't een officially requested to review this.
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15:38:28 <Fredrik> matatk: We are brought on usually when a documetn is to transition between stages.
15:39:27 <PaulG> https://www.w3.org/TR/css-viewport-1/#interaction-with-virtualkeyboard-overlayscontent
15:39:30 <Fredrik> matatk: I don't think this needs following as of now. It will come back to us. Plus, we're familiar with it thorugh Paul's input.
15:42:31 <Fredrik> PaulG: Often a virtual keyboard is covering things and I need to tap away to see what it is covered.
15:43:12 <nehaj> q+
15:44:37 <Fredrik> PaulG: It would be interesitng to know if anyone working in AT could tell us how their calculations worked when the viewport is changed, for instance through zoom.
15:45:10 <Fredrik> PaulG: Can any AT developer weigh in: hwo do you calculate your virtual cursor placement or do you hand that over to the UA? For instance.
15:45:18 <Fredrik> matatk: That might be an ARIA/WG thing.
15:45:35 <Fredrik> matatk: The virtual cursor isn't rendered as such. It is more like a place in the DOM.
15:45:45 <Fredrik> PaulG: Is it in the DOM, in teh bitmap, on top in another layer?
15:46:37 <Fredrik> matatk: We should defiinitely ask about this, and I can think of no one better to ask than the ARIA WG.
15:46:57 <Fredrik> matatk: If there is an appropriate issue to link to and ask them ato chime in, maybe that's the thing to do.
15:47:07 <Fredrik> Fazio: We could make a new issue...?
15:47:12 <PaulG> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/9442
15:47:19 <Fredrik> PaulG: I had ot things in my notes concerningzoom.
15:47:30 <Fredrik> PaulG: This one is the one I wanted to talk about.
15:48:37 <Fredrik> nehaj: I have a little doubt here. Are we talking about the virtual keybards on mobile devices or do we also include the ones on bank websites where they don't want to know keystrokes really?
15:49:32 <matatk> q?
15:49:41 <matatk> ack nehaj
15:49:51 <Fredrik> PaulG: I would assme that if someones implementing HTML virtual keybaords, you know you are using CSS zoom The problem I see comes with the author using zoom on a web page or an application thhat then the AT doesn#t know is being zoomed. When it gets viewport information without zoom appliedd, then does that still work or does the irtual ursor appear in the wrong place? Or is it delegeated to teh borwser? I dont know.
15:50:51 <PaulG> I think this is it https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/9398
15:51:19 <Fredrik> matatk: Let#s move on. We need to figure out where to report this. If I could think of how to succinclty create that as an action, I would do that now.
15:51:34 <Fredrik> PaulG: Put a stamp on the link I posted, perhaps?
15:52:01 <Fredrik> zakim, open next item
15:52:01 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- CSS Update (Paul) - https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues -- taken up [from matatk]
15:52:18 <PaulG> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/9508
15:52:20 <Fredrik> PaulG: Scrollbars!
15:53:16 <Fredrik> PaulG: What about making scrollbars completely stylable and resizable? Thats not standard compliant. There should be considerations for this. Or at least warnings.
15:53:36 <Fredrik> matatk: Brilliant summary. I'e put a11y tracker on it as well.
15:53:50 <matatk> zakim, next item
15:53:50 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- Actions Checkin (Specs) - https://github.com/w3c/apa/labels/action -- taken up [from matatk]
15:54:00 <matatk> zakim, close this item
15:54:01 <Zakim> agendum 7 closed
15:54:01 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:54:02 <Zakim> 8. Dangling Spec Review Cleanup [from matatk]
15:54:03 <matatk> zakim, next item
15:54:03 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- Dangling Spec Review Cleanup -- taken up [from matatk]
15:54:07 <matatk> zakim, close this item
15:54:07 <Zakim> agendum 8 closed
15:54:08 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:54:08 <Zakim> 9. Task Force & Deliverables Updates [from matatk]
15:54:21 <matatk> zakim, close this item
15:54:21 <Zakim> I do not know what agendum had been taken up, matatk
15:54:26 <matatk> zakim, next item
15:54:27 <Zakim> agendum 9 -- Task Force & Deliverables Updates -- taken up [from matatk]
15:54:30 <matatk> zakim, close this item
15:54:30 <Zakim> agendum 9 closed
15:54:31 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:54:31 <Zakim> 10. Other Business [from matatk]
15:54:32 <matatk> zakim, next item
15:54:33 <Zakim> agendum 10 -- Other Business -- taken up [from matatk]
15:55:04 <Fredrik> matatk: There is a lot left for next week.
15:55:15 <Fredrik> Fazio: I'll be at CSUN.
15:55:56 <Fredrik> zakim, end meeting
15:55:56 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been PaulG, Fazio, Roy, niklasegger, Fredrik, matatk, janina, nehaj, Nichole, Irfan, mike_beganyi, Lionel_Wolberger
15:55:59 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:56:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-apa-minutes.html Zakim
15:56:07 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Fredrik; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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