IRC log of coga on 2024-01-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to
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RRSAgent, make logs Public
10:35:29 [Zakim]
Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
10:35:29 [lisa]
10:35:29 [lisa]
clear agenda
10:35:34 [lisa]
read agenda from
10:35:41 [lisa]
10:35:51 [lisa]
read agenda from <>
10:35:55 [lisa]
10:37:30 [lisa]
10:37:36 [lisa]
agenda+ Sort out agenda for next week's meeting with AG
10:37:56 [lisa]
agenda+ Revised Mental health proposals at Proposed pattern and changes for Content-Usable version 3 <>
10:38:21 [lisa]
agenda+ How to put changes into the next draft of content useable.
10:38:50 [lisa]
agenda+ New timeline. Lets take some pressure off. See our new time line <>
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agenda+ 5 minutes on AG summary
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scribe: Eric
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regrets: jennie
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scribe: ric
16:03:33 [lisa_]
scribe: eric
16:03:38 [lisa_]
next item
16:03:42 [JustineP]
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16:04:22 [Eric_hind]
Lisa: Next weeks agenda includes mix discussion between content usable and WCAG 3
16:04:27 [DavidSwallow]
16:04:34 [lisa_]
16:05:00 [julierawe]
Is this during our regular COGA meeting next week?
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16:06:21 [Eric_hind]
Lisa: Topics include Subgroups, WCAG 3, outcomes, AG terminology coherence
16:06:47 [Rain]
confirming that the plan sounds good to me
16:07:00 [Eric_hind]
Lisa: All COGA are invited to next meeting where this will be discussed (next week)
16:07:57 [Eric_hind]
Julie: Good conversation to have on Clear language from our perspective versus WCAG 3
16:08:34 [JMcSorley]
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present+ Jan
16:08:53 [lisa_]
next item
16:08:59 [kirkwood]
16:09:57 [lisa_]
16:10:08 [julierawe]
16:10:16 [lisa_]
take up item 5
16:11:33 [Eric_hind]
Julie: Note currently there is voting on discussion Github; publishing starting point from links. What's new versus picking up from 2.2, guidelines, conformance model, etc. Github issues can be voted on.
16:11:45 [julierawe]
AG debate about how to approach publishing WCAG 3: Here is a link to a summary of the Jan 16th discussion:
16:11:52 [julierawe]
There are 4 main debates. Each one has its own GitHub comment that you can thumbs up or thumbs down. I am highlighting two of these debates:
16:11:59 [julierawe]
The starting point should be the WCAG 3 outcomes. If you think the starting point should be publishing new WCAG 3 outcomes, then click thumbs up in this comment. If you think the starting point should be showing how WCAG 3 is compatible with WCAG 2.2, click thumbs down.
16:12:04 [julierawe]
We should focus on guidelines (rather than conformance) for a while, then come back to conformance / structural updates. Thumbs up for "yes", down for "no, we should keep working on conformance / structure at the same time".
16:12:06 [Eric_hind]
Rachael: Read the issues at a summary level if you can as a starting point.
16:13:47 [kirkwood]
16:13:54 [Eric_hind]
Rachael: Two ways to move forward; take WCAG 2.2 and make changes and republish. Not from Silver. Other option is start from Silver and work from fall efforts.
16:14:50 [Rachael]
This is the direct link to the comment that is most impactful.
16:15:53 [lisa_]
ack j
16:15:59 [Rachael]
When you click the link, wait for the page to fully load and the comment at the top is the one to focus on.
16:16:52 [Eric_hind]
John: Fundamentally huge question with a lot of positive and negative for either choice.
16:18:48 [julierawe]
Add a thumbs up to this comment:
16:19:13 [Rachael]
16:19:45 [Eric_hind]
Julie: Link provided is main thumbs up/down perspective
16:19:59 [lisa_]
ack next
16:20:07 [lisa_]
ack next
16:20:11 [kirkwood]
16:21:20 [Eric_hind]
Rachael: Can offer a call to discuss the complexities; which she will (tomorrow) and will email COGA on meeting availability
16:21:23 [lisa_]
take up item 2
16:22:29 [lisa_]
16:23:19 [Eric_hind]
Rashmi: Proposal 8 discussion New Pattern, Make it easy to return to the starting point (of a site hierarchy or multistep process)
16:23:34 [lisa_]
16:26:26 [Rain]
16:26:27 [Eric_hind]
Rashmi: Losing track of home page can be aggravated by stress, mental health and cognitive overload - disorienting. Reorientation can be assisted by providing affordances related to helping
16:26:38 [lisa_]
ack next
16:27:34 [kirkwood]
+1 to Rain, re: homepage vs start of process
16:27:39 [lisa_]
16:27:40 [Eric_hind]
Rain: Concern on differentiation of home page and start of a flow - perhaps they need to be split up in complex sites.
16:30:11 [Eric_hind]
Lisa: We do have Making Step Clear already; could add further clarity related to this? We may also want to split home page/start of flow in other sections. Propose drafting this as a note.
16:30:39 [lisa_]
proposal we put it in with a note that they split and / or also get meged into other patterns
16:30:54 [Rain]
+1 that makes sense for the current setup
16:31:04 [lisa_]
16:31:05 [Eric_hind]
16:31:11 [Becca_Monteleone]
16:31:29 [JustineP]
16:31:35 [kirkwood]
16:32:17 [Eric_hind]
Lisa: Vote to include editors note on splitting this as a future instruction; voted positively by those present
16:32:24 [lisa_]
16:34:13 [Eric_hind]
Rashmi: Proposal 10, make Simplify complex purchasing processes (adding to current 4.6.2 Short Critical Path)
16:34:24 [lisa_]
16:34:26 [Eric_hind]
16:34:28 [kirkwood]
16:34:30 [Becca_Monteleone]
16:34:39 [JMcSorley]
16:34:42 [lisa_]
any objections?
16:34:51 [lisa_]
or more time to think
16:34:51 [Eric_hind]
Lisa: Voted to include as example, no objections.
16:34:52 [Rain]
16:35:03 [lisa_]
ack next
16:36:12 [Eric_hind]
Rain: Concern on how to act on it - not as prescriptive as it might be.
16:36:32 [Eric_hind]
Lisa: Clarify that this part of a set of examples
16:37:18 [Eric_hind]
John: Recommend adding more text here around reduce cognitive load - Lisa added to proposal
16:37:29 [lisa_]
16:38:00 [Eric_hind]
16:38:05 [lisa_]
16:38:06 [kirkwood]
16:38:10 [rashmi]
16:38:15 [lisa_]
any objections? or more time to think
16:38:21 [Eric_hind]
Lisa: Voted to include additional text, no objections.
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16:40:25 [Eric_hind]
Rashmi: Proposal 11: Clearly identify controls and their use or Make the relationship clear between controls and the content they affect. Make links and controls explicit; less/no inference required
16:45:03 [Eric_hind]
Lisa: proposal is to add this text suggestion to What to do as part of existing; 4.2.5 Make the relationship clear between controls and the content they affect (pattern).
16:45:10 [lisa_]
happy with the edits?
16:45:20 [lisa_]
16:45:23 [Eric_hind]
16:45:29 [JMcSorley]
16:45:36 [Becca_Monteleone]
16:45:41 [rashmi]
16:46:04 [Eric_hind]
Lisa: Voted to include adjusted text, no objections.
16:46:27 [lisa_]
16:46:54 [lisa_]
next item
16:47:02 [Eric_hind]
Lisa: How to put changes in the next draft of content usable - discussion
16:48:02 [Eric_hind]
Lisa: github folder structure review/branches.. proposes regular pull request.
16:48:43 [Eric_hind]
Lisa: Proposal: Merge and resynch much more regularly.
16:49:38 [Rain]
16:50:11 [lisa_]
ack next
16:51:01 [Eric_hind]
Rain: This does make sense; I could plan out the larger change over to content usable in a few months.
16:51:51 [Eric_hind]
16:52:03 [lisa_]
ack next
16:54:49 [Eric_hind]
Rashmi: Will need some help/experience with pull requests, Jan can help with the process, but there should be a coordinated effort to know/learn about branch process.
16:55:29 [kirkwood]
interersted in attending
16:56:03 [Eric_hind]
Lisa: Jan to create some written process and work with someone from W3C
16:56:03 [lisa_]
16:56:46 [Rain]
+1 sounds good
16:56:58 [lisa_]
next item
16:57:14 [Eric_hind]
Lisa: We can plan out a code freeze (more or less) when Rain is ready to do the large merge.
16:57:27 [lisa_]
16:58:04 [kirkwood]
“Timeline for v3 of Content Usable”
16:58:42 [Eric_hind]
Lisa: Topic, timeline to take pressure off, new structure, mental health, placeholders, images, etc and literary reviews. (Phase 1 Jan-April 2024)
17:00:34 [JustineP]
where do editorial reviews fit in the schedule?
17:01:01 [Eric_hind]
Lisa: Looking to get local (docs) style drafts, we can have lightweight placeholders, and similar draft level items as a way to remove pressure from the formal draft.
17:02:26 [julierawe]
Have to drop, thanks!
17:02:39 [Eric_hind]
Lisa: Do people want scheduled working meeting where we do literary reviews together?
17:03:01 [Eric_hind]
17:03:01 [lisa_]
do we want a working meeting for lit reviews?
17:03:05 [JustineP]
would be helpful
17:03:12 [DavidSwallow]
17:03:21 [Becca_Monteleone]
I could do it if it was at the time of this meeting
17:03:33 [Becca_Monteleone]
And it would be helpful!
17:03:41 [JMcSorley]
I could do either during this meeting or after this meeting.
17:03:42 [tburtin]
Same, I could do at this time of the meeting.
17:03:51 [Eric_hind]
Mornings EST fine by me
17:05:16 [lisa_]
RRSAgent, publish minutes
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I have made the request to generate lisa_
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