13:59:23 RRSAgent has joined #ac 13:59:27 logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/01/16-ac-irc 13:59:28 zakim, start meeting 13:59:28 RRSAgent, make logs Member 13:59:30 Meeting: Advisory Committee Meeting 13:59:30 RRSAgent, make logs member 13:59:50 hsano has joined #ac 13:59:51 agenda: https://www.w3.org/Member/wiki/AB/MemberMtgAgenda/2024-01-16 13:59:54 date: 2024-01-16 14:00:05 chair: wendyreid 14:00:17 agenda+ Session 1 - 1400 UTC 14:00:30 agenda+ Session 2 - 2100 UTC 14:00:30 present+ 14:01:10 present+ 14:01:10 agenda+ Session 3 - 0300 UTC, 17-Jan 14:01:28 present: WendyReid, Dan_Appelquist, Wei_Ding, Luca_Barbato 14:02:04 cpn has joined #ac 14:02:04 present+ Ralph, PLH, Jay_Kishigami, Hiroyuki_Sano, Mirja_Kulhewind, Chris_Needham 14:02:21 present+ Amy_van_der_Hiel, Igarashi, Atsushi_Shimono 14:02:41 present+ Florian_Rivoal 14:02:51 DKA has joined #ac 14:02:56 Jay has joined #ac 14:03:10 igarashi_ has joined #ac 14:03:39 Dingwei_ has joined #ac 14:03:42 present+ Dan_Appelquist 14:03:42 scribe: amy 14:03:53 present+ 14:04:05 Wendy: we may cancel the AB meeting this week 14:04:34 Ralph: we may wish to discuss a planning committee for the April AC meeting. We could discuss that here 14:04:38 agenda? 14:04:39 present+ Coralie 14:04:52 subtopic: Welcome and intro 14:04:57 present+ Aram_Zucker-Scharff 14:05:37 https://github.com/w3c/breakouts-day-2024/ 14:05:37 Wendy: Welcome to the first AB-led Member meeting of 2024. I don't have much of an agenda today. We could discuss the April AC meeting 14:05:37 present+ 14:05:45 ... We could discuss the Breakouts Day. This is something many people wanted after we saw how many were proposed for TPAc 14:06:05 -> https://www.w3.org/Member/wiki/AB/MemberMtgAgenda/2024-01-16 Call for W3C Breakouts Day 2024 Session Proposals 14:06:07 ... one complaint was there were so many ppl wanted to attend. there were many good ideas. So the Team is hosting one in March 14:06:08 present+ 14:06:24 present+ 14:06:25 ... you can propose topics. there's a shorter informative session and a longer breakout session for discussion or presentation 14:06:42 ... There are options and ppl can propose things. Since Team is here are there any questions or feedback, suggestions 14:06:50 ... or do ppl want to talk about potential breakouts 14:06:59 q+ 14:07:01 PLH: Many thanks to Ian and Francois for organizing that 14:07:04 If appropriate I could briefly chat about the Privacy Principles draft coming from the TAG. https://w3ctag.github.io/privacy-principles/ 14:07:04 ack florian 14:07:17 Florian: quick comments, in addition to this there's an event in Europe organized by Team as well 14:07:35 https://www.w3.org/events/happenings/2024/w3c-in-europe-member-meeting/ 14:07:43 -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ac-members/2024JanMar/0002.html Re: SAVE THE DATE - “W3C In Europe” virtual Member meeting 14:07:46 Ralph: here's the announcement 14:07:52 ... Thanks Florian 14:08:07 DKA: it will be 6 February and it's on my calendar. I'll be there. it will be the Europe event 14:08:19 ack Ralph 14:08:20 Florian: wish I could be there but I'll be on the east coast 14:08:25 AramZS has joined #ac 14:08:40 Ralph: what i raised my hand for. As PLH said thanks to Ian and Francois for the initiative on the Breakouts. 14:08:45 present+ 14:08:45 s/on the east coast/on the east coast, as well as on vacation… 14:09:32 ... And Dom for the W3C in Europe Day. this was a topic Naomi proposed for roadshows. we realized travel is complicated. so the W3C Europe event is virtual so maybe we'll get participation from east coast and west coast Americas as well as Asia. that's an advantage of virtual 14:09:48 ... Please suggest topics for the Breakouts. if you have one you'd like to lead that's great. 14:10:00 elenalape has joined #ac 14:10:05 ... Also if you have topics you'd like to hear about, let us know those two. those might lead to sessions in Europe as well 14:10:31 ... BTW Seth is not here as it's the middle of the night. the BoD is having an in person meeting in Australia this week. Seth sends his regrets 14:10:49 ... So let me make another plea for agenda topics both for Breakouts, for the Europe Meeting and the April AC meeting 14:11:07 ... any topics you'd like to hear about in those 3 opportunities let's collect topics there to hear about. and figure out where they fit best 14:11:15 q? 14:11:20 present+ 14:11:32 ... ok PLH since you pressed me. if you'd like to be on the Programm Committee for the April AC please let me know. I welcome people who would like to be on the PC 14:11:44 PLH: I'll send invite for lighting talks too 14:11:47 ? 14:11:49 Wendy: thanks PLH 14:11:49 q? 14:12:11 Wendy: Dan, since you mentioned it to you want to talk about the privacy principles draft from the TAG 14:12:26 present+ Fabien_Gandon, Daniel, Elena_Lape 14:12:30 DKA: might be work mentioning to AC here and I'll send mail to AC mailing list. I linked to GH version of PP 14:12:58 ... we haven't shuttled to /TR yet. we have at the end of the year, we have been working on it, by TAG TF. 14:12:58 https://w3ctag.github.io/privacy-principles/ 14:13:21 ... includes TAG and others. it's been a separate effort. we had a consensus call about substance. the call was specifically talking about the TAG to state agreement 14:13:45 ... w/ the meat of the document. w the idea some editorial work is needed. esp to simplify language 14:13:59 q+ 14:13:59 ... but we do have consensus now on principles themselves. i want to socialize w AC 14:14:15 ... I would like feedback. we've had some rounds of what I'd call horizontal review from outside groups 14:14:23 ... we're in final stretch. I'd like to close off this TF 14:14:39 ... and let everyone go home. we've been doing this for 2 years. we have on additional hour per week. 14:14:57 ... from a work perspective i want to get the work done. I think it is done. I think the intention is to move it through W3C statement track 14:15:01 ack florian 14:15:05 q+ to ask about deadline 14:15:25 Florian: answers one question re: statement. great. i see that last date is a few months. 14:15:34 DKA: I haven't asked Yves to copy the document to TR 14:15:38 Florian: ok so it's coming 14:15:49 q+ 14:15:51 DKA: we need to do it at the revision it's at at editors draft which has consensus 14:15:53 ack amy 14:15:53 amy, you wanted to ask about deadline 14:15:57 scribe+ 14:15:58 scribe+ 14:16:09 Amy: thanks to the TAG for this work 14:16:17 ... it's hard and very thoughtful work 14:16:29 ... what is your schedule for feedback? 14:16:35 Amy: great work ,many kudos. any decline? 14:16:46 s/decline/deadlines 14:16:50 DKA: i want to sunset this by summer. I want to move from once a week to bi-weekly 14:17:07 ... by that time i'd like it to be in the process of going through the statement process. i don't know what that will look like 14:17:15 ... I want to be there w/int the next quarter 14:17:32 Florian: I think this will be first doc to go through statement. there will be some process hiccups 14:17:38 ... if you want to be done by summer start early 14:17:45 q- 14:17:52 DKA: I want this to be going through Statement track clearly by that point 14:18:03 q+ 14:18:03 ... then it will be up to the TAG. we won't have the TF anymore 14:18:18 q+ to ask TAG to have a mind to best practices for other works 14:18:36 DKA: I also hope w/in next months in TR that reflects enough consensus to reference this in a meaningful way 14:18:50 ... to help drive TAG reviews, how ppl talk about privacy and influence ongoing spec work 14:19:06 ... that's the main point. we're already referencing bits of it. we'd like to get more formalized 14:19:15 Wendy: ChrisN was your question answered? 14:19:37 ack plh 14:19:37 kirkwood has joined #AC 14:19:42 ChrisN: it was about scheduling, when the TAG sent info I was wondering where it was. to echo Amy, thanks for the work you've done. it's important 14:19:59 PLH: speaking of privacy, a few things. yes, Dan to get to Statement it will take some time. 14:20:19 ... and it's about Privacy. One other thing is to shamelessly advertise is a Privacy lead 14:20:20 --> https://www.w3.org/careers/2024-privacy-lead-job-posting/ Privacy Lead 14:20:51 ... Please feel free to diffuse this into your networks. the end of Jan is the end of the Privacy WG review 14:21:12 --> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/privacy-wg-2023/ Privacy Working Group 14:21:13 ... we did have a note to remove one deliverable from the charter. But please look at the charter and approve it 14:21:15 ack amy 14:21:15 amy, you wanted to ask TAG to have a mind to best practices for other works 14:21:27 s/Kuhlewind/Kühlewind/ 14:21:55 present+ 14:22:06 Amy: a suggestion on the Privacy Principles: a lot of work will go into best practices, tips, etc. 14:22:33 DKA: I had a flash title: "So you want to make a W3C Statement" 14:22:44 DKA: i had a brilliant flash to presenting this on a panel "so you want to make statement" 14:22:55 Amy: please imagine this as a nice friendly process if you can 14:23:14 Wendy: i will look at principles and how people review and send feedback to TAG. also the Privacy WG charter 14:23:57 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/16-ac-minutes.html Ralph 14:24:16 Wendy: for new joiners, let us know if there are any Breakout topics, AC meeting topics or sessions, Europe Members meeting 14:24:29 ... or if there are any other topics. the agenda is little light today 14:24:31 q? 14:24:59 https://www.w3.org/Member/wiki/AB/MemberMtgAgenda/2024-01-16 14:25:31 q+ 14:25:35 ack cpn 14:25:45 ... we are trying out a new agenda method. 14:26:06 ChrisN: I do notice that I sent an agenda but no one else is submitting things. wondering if we have a way to organize so we do have topics 14:26:18 ... i was going to ask how AB was getting on w/ current priorities. maybe an update of each of those 14:26:23 Wendy: that's a great suggestion 14:26:41 ... Apologies for putting ppl on the spot. DingWei want to talk about "exploring new horizons" 14:26:59 DingWei: thanks Wendy . we do have some progress on this, specifically thanks to PLH 14:27:01 AB Priorities 2024 https://www.w3.org/wiki/AB/2024_Priorities 14:27:14 ... we do have info on the repo. If you're an AB member please comment w/ your ideas 14:27:27 ... we're trying to collect ideas. we'll bring to the AB meeting at the end of this. month. 14:27:41 ... i saw some very good topics but not much disagreement on wording 14:27:53 https://github.com/w3c/AB-memberonly/issues/207 14:27:55 ... before the end of the month we'd be happy to have more comments. we really welcome comments 14:28:12 q+ to talk about Vision 14:28:21 Wendy: Tzviya shared the link the remaining topics. Unless other AB want to comment 14:28:23 ack tzviya 14:28:23 tzviya, you wanted to talk about Vision 14:28:37 Tzviya: ppl might be wondering about Vision, which we were very open about. the last Vision meeting in Nov 14:28:51 ... I expressed concern about continuing to work on it. we had discussion in AB on where to go next 14:29:13 ... there will be a more official announcement. I will step down as Chair. Chris will step up as Chair and Tantek as Editor 14:29:33 ...we feel a lot of proposed changes - often when you work on a spec. there's a "one true way" to do things. w/ tech or wording 14:30:02 ... w/ something like this it's opinion. we've been working on best way to word. we've come to some consensus . there're pull requests but we're going around in circles 14:30:23 ... we need to come to agreement on a draft. there will be AB publication. we need to discuss whether as Note or Statement. 14:30:23 q+ 14:30:26 ack cpn 14:30:33 ... I'll still participate but it will be led by ChrisW 14:30:56 ChrisN: i absolutely recognize the difficulties the TF has had. I've seen conversation by Board. 14:31:17 q+ 14:31:17 q+ 14:31:18 ... wehether that's different to what's written. that's unclear to me. what i'd prefer to see is that what the Board takes up is grounded in what the TF has done 14:31:24 +1 to Board using what TF worked on 14:31:34 q+ 14:31:35 ChrisN: I have less insight into what the Board is doing than the TF 14:31:43 ... Ideally all these things are coming from the same body or work. 14:31:52 ack tzviya 14:31:52 ... Perhaps different mainifestations of it 14:32:18 Tzviya: there's been a lot of discussion about that. one Board said he was speaking as himself not Board 14:32:34 ... ChrisW asked this be on the Agenda of the F2F today. Hopefully the board will sort this out. 14:32:43 ack florian 14:32:45 ... we would like an official statement of what the board wants 14:33:03 Florian: Largely the same thing Tzviya said. the AB does not have full clarity of what the Board thinks. 14:33:15 ... if we do get that, great. if it's "that's the right type of work we just wish it was done" 14:33:33 ... it doesn't make sense to have competing statements for vision. Maybe the Board wants to work on W3C as community vs. org 14:33:40 ack koalie 14:33:42 +1 to only one vision document 14:33:52 Coralie: Thanks Wendy and thanks Tzviya for putting this forward 14:34:31 ... a few observations. First, the purpose of the vision document was to put w3c in a position where it could identify the criteria by which decisions can be made in the context of losing it's founding director as a key cog in the process 14:35:01 ... my understanding is that the Board wants to use some of the content is to put w3c in a favorable poisiton for funders to our work 14:35:18 ... lastly, the comm team is expecting that document to be stable enough to update page which is /mission 14:35:21 https://www.w3.org/mission/ 14:35:29 q+ 14:35:48 Coralie: which i haven't updated in over 6 months. taking the most generic points which had consensus in the Editors draft 14:36:05 ... this will be mixed. the Comm Team will help the Board come up w/ verbiage for anything that seeks funding 14:36:23 ack florian 14:36:24 q+ to respond to koalie 14:36:27 ... my slight worry is that when there's leadership change esp Editor level is that everything goes back to the drawing board. i'll leave it at that 14:36:50 Florian: I don't think you need to be worried. the new Chair is the former editor. there should be continuity. 14:36:52 +1 to florian 14:37:07 ... it won't be long before this is CR-level. the AB has done its part we're now seeking consensus 14:37:21 q+ to mention change of tax status in addition to director free 14:37:35 Florian: I expect it will be close. to help decision making. yes that was one of the goals. 14:37:51 s/losing it's/losing its/ 14:38:06 ... the funding question was one goal. w/out prejudice. but stating what we do is one motivation but guiding the decisions, embodying ideas of director 14:38:10 ack tzviya 14:38:10 tzviya, you wanted to respond to koalie 14:38:16 ... the idea of fundraising is re-surfacing not new 14:38:31 ack amy 14:38:31 amy, you wanted to mention change of tax status in addition to director free 14:38:37 Tzviya: i think the docs the comm team put up are fantastic and require little editing 14:39:09 Rossen has joined #ac 14:39:39 scribe+ 14:40:08 Amy: The status of W3C changed, not just from director-free, but also to a 501(c)(3) which requires different kinds of funding 14:40:17 ... and requires that we show we work for the good of the public 14:40:25 ... these are legal requirements 14:40:54 ... the reason for funding is not wanting a few extra dollars 14:41:03 scribe- 14:41:11 q+ 14:41:15 Wendy: thanks. Are there any other questions or comment about the vision work 14:41:16 ack elenalape 14:41:40 Elena: to add some points on the fundraising aspect. there are 1.48 million 501c3 orgs in the US 14:41:51 ... so a key is to stand out. we can do this by being short. the page right now is great. very succinct 14:42:10 ... the ppl who put money down are succinct. to say we directly invest in standards interop for eg 14:42:26 ... what the $ goes for, like ensuing the web doesn't break. so they feel they are investors in this. 14:42:49 ....a also t ensure this is aligned w/ what they do. to make sure it's succinct and key words. my 2 cents 14:42:52 Wendy: thank you 14:43:17 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/16-ac-minutes.html Ralph 14:43:24 ... any other questions? Because this was started w/ a request for update on priorities. I will do a quick speed round of remaining. as they've had the most work 14:43:36 meeting: AB-Led Member Meeting 14:43:47 ... next is Inubation. we'll discuss at F2F. a lot of attention has gone to new horizon which is related 14:44:15 ... for inclusion, if anyone has been paying attention to IETF they did a community survey. so i'd like to propose something similar. to see what our community is like 14:44:38 I|-> https://www.w3.org/Member/wiki/AB/MemberMtgAgenda/2024-01-16|subtopic: W3C Breakouts Day 2024 14:44:42 ... the IETF one is interesting. 3Is will be discussed at F2F. we've worked on pulling together documents 14:45:08 ... on related work. for Improving community. we have a done a few things. one was the new agenda process to solicit more member feedback for community meetings 14:45:20 ... maybe AC moderation and facilitation. some additional improvements to work mode 14:45:44 ... some discussion of additional tooling to improve work mode like automated transcription 14:45:51 I/Wendy: Dan, since you mentioned it/subtopic: Privacy Principles draft 14:46:05 ... also there's a new revision of the CoC. we wrapped up feedback. we'll put out a vote on the CoC 14:46:17 ... in the next week or so that will updated this year depending on how the votes goes 14:46:21 q+ to mention ombuds 14:46:28 ack tzviya 14:46:28 tzviya, you wanted to mention ombuds 14:46:44 Tzviya: just to mention that this isn't the AB but adjacent. in PWE we've been working on revising the ombuds program 14:47:00 ... we have mapped out the process for both ombuds persons that are not the W3C leadership 14:47:02 q+ 14:47:13 ... which is not how we should be. also a set of mediators. we've documented the difference 14:47:23 I/ChrisN: I do notice that I sent an agenda/subtopic: AB Priorities 14:47:41 ... and Wendy and i need to meet w/ Seth for next steps. we are nearly finalized w/ budget etc. some will be paid members of the community 14:48:01 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/16-ac-minutes.html Ralph 14:48:10 ... see if you are interested. global representation. ombuds are internal. hopefully wendy and i will tel you how that works 14:48:13 ... and how to implement 14:48:13 ack florian 14:48:22 naomi has joined #ac 14:48:23 I wonder if we can nominate ppl for ombuds 14:48:59 Florian: an ongoing work items is process. we did implement director-free. but we might not have managed to remove Director from all documents. for decisions that still mention him let us know. we know PP 14:49:08 .. mentions him. MoU w/ WHATWG still does. 14:49:27 ... if Team or whomever is running into Team. there are not just historical but active decision making which involve TBL send it to AB 14:49:35 qq+ 14:49:42 ack koalie 14:49:42 koalie, you wanted to react to florian 14:49:49 Coralie: hopefully the AB will come to Comm for fixing the documents 14:49:52 Wendy: always 14:50:10 s/running into Team/running into mentions of TBL 14:50:17 Wendy: any other questions on priorities? 14:50:24 i|-> https://www.w3.org/Member/wiki/AB/MemberMtgAgenda/2024-01-16|subtopic: W3C Breakouts Day 2024 14:50:26 q+ about code of conduct 14:50:32 ack DKA 14:50:34 i/Wendy: Dan, since you mentioned it/subtopic: Privacy Principles draft 14:50:46 i/ChrisN: I do notice that I sent an agenda/subtopic: AB Priorities 14:51:10 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/16-ac-minutes.html Ralph 14:51:16 DKA: I really just wanted to express support for CoC. the revisions when i reviewed it. the latest revisions are great. esp about desired and acceptable behavior 14:51:23 ... the issue will be how do we ensure good enforcement 14:51:39 ... i would encourage us all to think about this. Tzviya I guess this is connected to revising ombuds 14:51:51 ... but i still feel there's a need to have a culture of enforcement around the CoC w/ in W3C 14:52:08 ... not just the mechanics. but that we're all living and breathing it. something that impacts our lives 14:52:18 I think that point is great re: community aspect 14:52:43 Wendy: That's great. we have been working on a document that does a better job describing the document. eg: conflict resolution or incident resolution 14:53:07 ... ti spreads out responsibility from not just ombuds or facilitators. to chairs or those in leadership positoins. 14:53:35 ... who can intervene in a meeting. or when someone says something harsh. you don't need to take to ombuds. just say "hey that wasn't really nice" before it gets to "that's a CoC violation" 14:53:54 ... ppl get worried about CoC being used as a weapon. we need an environment where this is safe. a healthy environment 14:54:15 DKA: we shouldn't feel CoC is a nuclear option. i've used CoC as TAG chair on issues list when things get out of hand 14:54:40 ... "hey, we're operating under a CoC". that tends to have a good impact. not just part of our process. but remind behaviors 14:54:46 q+ to ask about training 14:54:55 +1 to that. 14:54:57 ack amy 14:54:57 amy, you wanted to ask about training 14:54:57 Wendy: I've seen this used by chairs 14:55:18 scribe+ 14:55:27 Amy: I've seen reminders on mailing lists have great result 14:55:32 scribe- 14:56:18 ... sessions on how to handle conflict would be useful; I'd happily attend 14:56:53 Wendy: much of that is in "running better meetings" but it can be put into mini sessions. this could be a potential topic on conflict escalation 14:56:57 -> https://www.w3.org/events/happenings/2023/meeting-facilitation-training/ Running better meetings 14:57:26 Wendy: I am planning, the "running better meetings" is a video. i ran a live session last year. i'm thinking to do more in the spring 14:57:30 -> https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/5fe059f1-bdc7-4734-b11f-61567171614b/ Running better meetings (part 2) 14:57:47 ... a lot ppl were very busy. I'll do a few more this year. i'd be happy to do one at the AC meeting or whenever ppl want to do it 14:57:52 +1 great idea to run one at the aC 14:58:09 Wendy: we are coming to the top of the hours. last call for any questions or comments 14:58:16 q+ 14:58:22 ack koalie 14:58:38 Coralie: Wendy perhaps you might want to consider doing one of the runs of the "running better meetings' at the breakout day 14:58:43 .. perhaps not at the AC. 14:58:54 ... I have a feeling it's better suited at Breakouts than AC but could be both 14:58:57 Wendy: or both, yeah 14:59:09 ... It's good for anyone who is in a position to run a meeting or a leadership position 14:59:24 ... it has more content than it's name. I can put in a proposal for the Breakouts for sure 14:59:37 ... we'll be meeting again for the afternoon session at 16:00 ET 14:59:42 https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/f66d2e36-cbd3-4aaa-821c-b8e2eea781f8/20240116T130000/ 14:59:48 DKA: 21:00 UTC 14:59:56 Wendy: we may see some of you later. have a wonderful rest of your day 15:00:08 .. i'll send out links to populate. thank you 15:00:54 RRSAgent, this meeting spans midnight 15:01:03 rrsagent, stay 15:01:12 RRSagent, make minutes 15:01:14 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/16-ac-minutes.html koalie 15:02:13 s/TPAc/the last TPAC 15:02:53 s/let us know those two/let us know those also 15:03:09 the Europe event 15:03:09 s/the Europe event/the Europe Member event 15:03:17 present+ Yves_Lafon, Carine_Bournez 15:04:25 s/poisiton/position/ 15:04:41 s/to our work/to support our work/ 15:04:41 s/on additional hour /meetings one additional hour 15:05:03 s/is a few months./is a few months ago. 15:05:22 s/decline?/deadline? 15:06:11 i|date: 2024-01-16|Topic: Session 1| 15:06:13 RRSagent, make minutes 15:06:14 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/16-ac-minutes.html koalie 15:07:06 s/this. month. /this month. 15:07:31 agenda+ Session 2 15:07:37 Zakim, agenda? 15:07:37 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda: 15:07:38 1. Session 1 - 1400 UTC [from Ralph] 15:07:38 2. Session 2 - 2100 UTC [from Ralph] 15:07:38 3. Session 3 - 0300 UTC, 17-Jan [from Ralph] 15:07:39 4. Session 2 [from koalie] 15:07:47 Zakim, drop item 4 15:07:47 agendum 4, Session 2, dropped 15:08:14 s/wehether/whether 15:08:25 s/Session 1/Session 1 - 1400 UTC/ 15:08:28 Zakim, drop item 1 15:08:28 agendum 1, Session 1 - 1400 UTC, dropped 15:10:15 s/a also t ensure/also to ensure 15:57:52 ShawnT has joined #ac 16:38:17 atsushi_ has joined #ac 16:49:52 if you're responding to the privacy working group charter review, see also https://github.com/w3cping/administrivia/pull/46 19:04:59 Jem has joined #ac 19:05:41 kirkwood has joined #AC 19:17:47 naomi has joined #ac 19:49:50 kirkwood has joined #AC 19:53:18 kirkwood has joined #AC 20:53:13 tzviya has joined #ac 21:00:43 zakim, take up item 2 21:00:43 agendum 2 -- Session 2 - 2100 UTC -- taken up [from Ralph] 21:01:00 present+ Chris_Wilson, Tess_OConnor, Alan_Stearns 21:04:20 present+ Jeffrey_Yasskin 21:04:30 subtopic: April AC meeting topics 21:04:42 Tess: talking about the TAG appointed seats 21:05:03 ... unlike previous elections, both of the appointees ran for election and were elected 21:05:04 annolan has joined #ac 21:05:37 ... I'd like to talk about the extent to which the appointed seats are a smoothing function 21:05:44 ... in which case why not do the same for the AB? 21:05:56 present+ Andrew_Nolan 21:06:14 ... the Board of Directors has appointed seats to use as a smoothing function 21:06:21 ... but the Board makes its own appointments 21:06:54 ... there's an odd number of appointed seats on the TAG so each cycle there's a different number 21:07:10 ... I think some standardization across the three bodies could be considered 21:07:42 q+ to ask Tess to clarify, I think appointments come from TBL? 21:07:44 ... this could be an interesting topic to hear from the AC, particularly hearing any experience from other organizations 21:08:11 amy, you wanted to ask Tess to clarify, I think appointments come from TBL? 21:08:38 q+ 21:08:54 Amy: the TAG appointees were a residual from the Days of Tim 21:09:20 Tess: yes; and Tim seemed to have valued institutional continuity in his appointments 21:10:12 Amy: part of making our processes better is discussing what else might change 21:10:17 present+ 21:10:28 q+ 21:10:48 Chris: the TAG appointments were originally for diversity of skill set 21:11:04 ... in general it was used for that until it became solely for institutional continuity 21:11:18 ... that may not have been the best use 21:11:36 ... the change to Process may have been an over-reaction to prevent that use 21:11:55 ... there's an issue in the AB repo about whether to have term limits 21:12:29 ... appointments on the AB might be useful but it's less clear if those would be used for diversity of skills 21:12:50 ... the TAG needs people who understand specific areas 21:13:28 ... the Board appointments were an artifact of wanting balance and having an odd number of members 21:13:48 q+ 21:14:19 Tess: in general, as Amy was saying, Director-Free was a comprehensive look at replacing TimBL everywhere 21:14:34 ... some things required a lot of thought; e.g. the W3C Council process 21:14:34 q+ on intentionality in appointments/nomcom 21:14:49 +1 to tweaking the way we do things as needed every year 21:14:55 +1 21:14:55 ... I'm hoping that now that we have this Director-free Process we'll continue to tweak it yearly 21:15:06 ... it's an opportunity to see what works and what doesn't 21:15:14 ... don't be afraid to tweak things 21:15:25 ... appointed seats are just one example; there are others 21:15:42 ... the Council process is one of the more complicated parts but I think that's justified; Formal Objections are serious 21:15:55 +1 to councils being difficult but important 21:16:06 ... people who file FOs should not be made to feel unheard 21:16:22 Alan: for the appointed TAG seats, does the elected TAG have input? 21:16:31 Tess: yes 21:16:48 Chris: and the AB and TAG have to ratify the Team's choice 21:17:04 Tess: and the TAG chooses its own chairs 21:17:14 Chris: that's another interesting difference 21:17:26 cwilso, you wanted to comment on intentionality in appointments/nomcom 21:17:37 ... the TAG chairs are chosen solely by the TAG and only from the TAG participants 21:17:52 ... one of the AB chairs can be anyone as long as the AB agrees 21:18:28 ... one of the things that was being discussed in the Board term discussion was the idea of a nominating committee 21:18:37 I wonder if part of the differences from AB and TAG appointments, chairs etc. come from TAG being associated closely w/ Director and AB being associated for quite a while w/ CEO 21:18:52 ... we've gone back and forth in election discussions in the AB on using official nominating committees 21:19:19 ... we changed all the processes to make nominations known at the time they were nominated 21:19:35 ... the way our elections work, there's no good way to recommend a slate to vote fore 21:19:39 s/vote fore/ 21:20:04 ... STV doesn't support slates 21:20:11 ... it's a difference in representation 21:20:31 ... one of my concerns is that we don't have a smoothing function elsewhere 21:21:02 Tess: you mentioned disappointment that the Board hasn't yet made its second appointment 21:21:20 ... I could imagine that's something you might want to wait on 21:21:28 I appreciate Tess' mention of work lode. as that is certainly increasing in TAG w/ councils etc. which further shows why ability to keep adjusting is important 21:21:34 ... I'd be inclined to wait a bit longer 21:21:38 s/lode/load 21:21:42 ... and it's hard to find people 21:21:51 ... who are willing 21:22:44 ... with regard to the TAG appointments, with my AC hat I think it would be a shame to regularly use the appointments to appoint people who ran for election and lost 21:23:02 ... but with my TAG hat I have a different preference 21:23:07 ... I'm caught in the middle 21:23:44 q+ 21:24:12 PLH: be aware that there is a pull request on the Privacy WG charter 21:24:27 --> https://github.com/w3cping/administrivia/pull/46 Labels/Declaration 21:24:28 ... I expect that to resolve the Apple FO 21:24:50 q+ to request PLH give a charter status overview 21:25:03 Alan: but it would be nice to have a way to add those back without recharting 21:25:10 PLH: there's no shortcut to AC review 21:25:49 amy, you wanted to request PLH give a charter status overview 21:25:59 subtopic: Charter updates 21:26:10 PLH: we have threads open on the SVG WG closure 21:26:28 ... one comment said it was a shame to close this WG without a plan to maintain the SVG spec 21:26:46 https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/432 21:27:34 ... unless there is something new that comes up in the Automotive WG we intend to let its charter run out in April 21:27:51 ... the industry is relatively young in making software 21:28:23 ... I met earlier today with the community proposing a Federated Identity WG 21:28:24 https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/427#issuecomment-1894281392 21:28:37 ... a new charter draft exists ^^ 21:28:53 ... I'm hoping a proposed charter will go to the AC in a couple of weeks 21:29:00 q+ to ask how federated identity links w/ verifiable credentials 21:29:16 ... WebApps Security WG charter also needs to progress 21:29:21 amy, you wanted to ask how federated identity links w/ verifiable credentials 21:29:45 Amy: is the federated identity work related to verifiable credentials and DID? 21:29:47 PLH: no 21:29:55 ... they don't need credentials 21:30:07 ... that's what they say 21:30:28 ... still looking for willing chairs 21:31:14 reminder for PLH to ask for Program Committee 21:31:14 Tess: for the April AC meeting, I hope to hear recommendations for good okonomiyaki 21:32:09 ... Hiroshima is known for it 21:32:36 PLH: we're looking for volunteers for the program committee for the April AC meeting 21:35:12 Tess: one of the ideas for the AC meeting is to have the AB, Board, and TAG all meet that week as "Governance Week" 21:35:29 ... the TAG might discuss next week whether to meet in Hiroshima 21:35:50 ... it's not unreasonable to expect elected bodies to stand in front of those who elected them and report their progress 21:36:04 ... we get this to some extent at TPAC but everyone is very busy at TPAC 21:36:19 Chris: we tried to float this last year and the TAG had already planned their meetings 21:36:55 Tess: personally I think the TAG should meet that week in Hiroshima 21:37:07 ... though I was planning to take some vacation then 21:39:20 Andrew: I look forward to coming to more of these meetings and going to Hiroshima 21:39:42 PLH: we're having an Intro Session for new AC Reps on March 21 21:41:14 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/16-ac-minutes.html Ralph 21:41:28 https://www.w3.org/events/happenings/2024/w3c-in-europe-member-meeting/ -> W3C Europe meeting 21:41:56 6 February 2024 at 10:00-12:00 CET 21:42:10 https://www.w3.org/events/happenings/2024/call-for-w3c-breakouts-day-2024-session-1/ -> Breakout Day 21:42:51 12 March 13:00–15:00 21:42:55 CET 21:43:10 https://www.w3.org/events/ac/2024/ac-2024/ -> April AC meeting 21:43:30 8 April 2024, 00:00 – 9 April 202 21:43:35 --> https://www.w3.org/2024/04/AC/Overview.html AC 2024 21:51:31 zakim, close this item 21:51:31 agendum 2 closed 21:51:32 I see 1 item remaining on the agenda: 21:51:32 3. Session 3 - 0300 UTC, 17-Jan [from Ralph] 22:10:09 kirkwood has joined #AC 23:08:30 naomi has joined #ac 23:11:47 kirkwood has joined #AC 00:37:59 kirkwood has joined #AC 00:45:31 naomi has joined #ac 01:22:43 naomi has joined #ac 02:51:19 wendyreid has joined #ac 02:58:34 MikeSmith has joined #ac 03:01:41 zakim, take up next item 03:01:42 agendum 3 -- Session 3 - 0300 UTC, 17-Jan -- taken up [from Ralph] 03:02:10 present+ 03:02:29 present+ 03:02:29 present+ WendyReid, MikeSmith, Igarashi 03:03:16 igarashi has joined #ac 03:03:45 kaz has joined #ac 03:03:59 present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima, Kaz 03:05:14 scribe+ 03:05:21 present+ 03:05:41 zakim, who is on the call? 03:05:41 Present: WendyReid, Dan_Appelquist, Wei_Ding, Luca_Barbato, Ralph, PLH, Jay_Kishigami, Hiroyuki_Sano, Mirja_Kulhewind, Chris_Needham, Amy_van_der_Hiel, Igarashi, Atsushi_Shimono, 03:05:44 ... Florian_Rivoal, Dingwei_, Coralie, Aram_Zucker-Scharff, igarashi_, Yves, pchampin, Jay, Carine, AramZS, elenalape, Fabien_Gandon, Daniel, Elena_Lape, tzviya, Yves_Lafon, 03:05:44 ... Carine_Bournez, Chris_Wilson, Tess_OConnor, Alan_Stearns, Jeffrey_Yasskin, Andrew_Nolan, hober, cwilso, MikeSmith, Tomoaki_Mizushima, Kaz 03:06:05 Wendy: welcome to the last round of the first 2024 Member meeting! 03:06:34 -> https://www.w3.org/Member/wiki/AB/MemberMtgAgenda/2024-01-16 basic agenda 03:06:41 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ac-members/2024JanMar/0004.html 03:07:03 ...this morning we talked a little about proposed topics for the April AC meeting, as well as the emails announcing the March 12th breakout day and the W3C Europe meeting. 03:07:13 ...discussed AB priorities and TAG appointees. 03:07:26 q? 03:07:38 s|https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ac-members/2024JanMar/0004.html|-> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ac-members/2024JanMar/0004.html Call for Breakouts Day 2024 Session Proposals| 03:07:48 MikeSmith: any special topics for the AC meeting? 03:08:05 i|0004|-> https://www.w3.org/events/ac/2024/ac-2024/ AC 2024| 03:08:21 Wendy: Not really. We talked about having the meeting facilitation training at the AC meeting. 03:09:12 MikeSmith: unfortunately the AC meeting is the first day of elementary school for my daughter, so I won't be able to go. For a lot of people in Japan, if they have kids, that may be a problematic week. 03:10:03 ....will probably affect some people being able to go. (Start of school in Japan is in April.) 03:10:43 Wendy: always difficult to schedule around Easter, Passover, etc. 03:10:47 q+ 03:10:53 MikeSmith: also trying to get good rates. 03:11:03 ack igarashi 03:11:57 Igarashi: probably I will be in Hiroshima. I wonder if the W3C staff asked the W3C Japan staff? 03:13:00 MikeSmith: just a very busy time of year, yes. 03:14:19 ...next time we should avoid early April for Japan. 03:14:29 +1 03:14:46 Mizushima: I'm available, and will join 03:14:59 Igarashi: good thing is it is cherry blossom season! 03:15:41 MikeSmith: Hiroshima is quite a pretty town 03:16:14 I'm just happy we don't schedule TPAC over Halloween every year anymore. :P 03:17:07 michaelchampion has joined #ac 03:17:07 q+ 03:17:12 ack igarashi 03:17:55 Igarashi: About the AC meeting: I heard from some of the Japanese members that some of them can only attend two days 03:18:27 ... is there any related event alongside the AC meeting? 03:18:45 q+ 03:19:06 MikeSmith: I don't know that there's anything planned yet... 03:19:10 ack kaz 03:19:12 -> https://www.w3.org/events/ac/2024/ac-2024/ AC 2024 Event page 03:19:35 Kaz: there is potential for social events, but it's still open. 03:20:57 Igarashi: perhaps a social outing in Hiroshima? 03:21:07 q+ 03:21:36 https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e3401.html 03:21:43 ack cwilso 03:21:45 miyajima 03:21:45 scribe+ 03:22:16 s/there is potential for social events, but it's still open./The agenda and potential social events are still open. I think that's one of the reasons to have this call and we'd like to hear from Members about ideas for agenda topics, possible social events, etc. :)/ 03:22:17 cwilso: The agenda for the AC meeting hasn't been planned, so if there's ideas for social outings or local meetings, we can suggest those 03:22:51 wendyreid: definitely on the AB's agenda 03:23:03 q+ 03:23:08 ack igarashi 03:24:18 q+ 03:24:45 ack kaz 03:25:13 Igarashi: perhaps we can have Japanese tech presentation? 03:25:24 Kaz: definitely, if we can get that suggestion into the Tema 03:25:28 How about inviting a guest speaker who talks about Japanese situation 03:25:29 s/Tema/Team 03:25:34 +1 03:26:16 WendyReid: I don't know if there's been a Japanese community meeting this year; could that community propose a topic for the AC? 03:26:29 Igarashi: we have Japanese meetings about twice a year 03:26:53 ... I don't know how many members will be there in Hiroshima 03:27:27 ...we could invite a famous IT person or well-known person in the web community 03:27:45 +1 03:28:25 q+ 03:28:30 ack igarashi 03:28:30 q+ to cite https://github.com/w3c/breakouts-day-2024 03:28:56 Igarashi: the W3C in Europe meeting held in February - it's a good kind of a direction, to have such local events. 03:28:59 q+ 03:29:48 ack MikeSmith 03:29:48 MikeSmith, you wanted to cite https://github.com/w3c/breakouts-day-2024 03:29:51 q- later 03:29:56 ack cwilso 03:30:16 i|the W3C in Eu|-> https://www.w3.org/events/happenings/2024/w3c-in-europe-member-meeting/ W3C in Europe Member Meeting (Calendar)| 03:30:19 cwilso: Yes we have raised it with the team, one challenge is that we don't have as strong a community in the US 03:30:52 ... despite there being a lot of members in Americas, Asia and EU have stronger partners with Keio, Beihang, ERCIM 03:31:13 ... making sure reports on the member meetings get out to everyone helps 03:31:43 ... companies with members across the globe, people based in Europe can engage with the community 03:32:00 q+ 03:32:09 ... like you mentioned before, igarashi, getting guest speakers will help build 03:32:14 ack MikeSmith 03:33:16 MikeSmith: We have minutes for the Japan member meetings, but they might be in Japanese 03:33:36 cwilso: I'm not sure where to find them, but there was an excellent summary done, and we can always translate 03:33:39 MikeSmith: wanted to talk about the Breakouts day, but... we do publish minutes of the JP member meeting... 03:33:58 s/MikeSmith: wanted to talk about the Breakouts day, but... we do publish minutes of the JP member meeting...// 03:34:28 q+ 03:34:40 MikeSmith: a lot of the work, and a lot of people attending the meetings, are in specific areas like Smart Cities, WebofThings, etc... 03:34:56 q+ to reply to Mike 03:35:47 Igarashi: on the breakouts: DBaron posted on Slack that the page on w3.org is Team-only; I think something went awry in the publishing 03:35:53 https://github.com/w3c/breakouts-day-2024 03:36:09 s/Igarashi/MikeSmith/ 03:36:26 ...The GH page is correct and live 03:36:41 ...I posted to the WHATWG matrix channel about it 03:36:42 https://github.com/w3c/breakouts-day-2024/issues/new/choose 03:37:42 ack igarashi 03:38:38 Igarashi: about local activity, W3C should consider not only local members but the outreach outside W3C. Ac meeting, TPAC, etc., could be used for such local outreach 03:40:23 qq+ 03:40:43 MikeSmith: there's a big group active in Japan called HTML5JP. Atsushi Shimono has been involved in it for some time. 03:41:32 Keio also has a big event every year where all the student and instructor labs have booths, talk about their work, etc... we have members there to present on stuff they're doing at W3C. 03:41:55 ack kaz 03:41:55 kaz, you wanted to react to igarashi 03:43:05 Let's talk about outreach in general. 03:43:18 Kaz: I'm getting a bit confused. Let's concentrate on potential outreach during the member meeting; then talk about breakout session, then AC meeting. On potential outreach event: that sounds nice, W3C can thing about that, and additional events like a workshop. 03:43:22 q+ 03:43:45 ack cwilso 03:43:45 cwilso, you wanted to reply to Mike 03:43:50 WendyReid: like the Developer Meetup at TPAC 03:44:17 cwilso: I just wanted to add on to something Mike said, you were talking about the Japanese member meetings 03:44:33 ... where the participants were in specific areas like Web of Things, Media, etc 03:44:43 ... we don't hear enough about that in the broader W3C 03:44:49 ... not a lot about smart cities 03:44:56 ... it's not something driven in the US 03:45:10 s/Let's concentrate on/If we want to change the topic and talk about potential outreach, let's change the topic explicitly and then concentrate on/ 03:45:10 ... understanding how it fits into the broader web, the W3C narrative, is missing 03:45:31 q? 03:45:55 ack kaz 03:46:31 Kaz: these days, we don't really take concrete minutes from the Japanese member meetings, because it is somewhat casual information exchange. 03:46:52 ... we have presentations, but then open participatory discussion 03:47:45 q+ to comment about interactions with Japanese government ministries, and how that relates to some of our member priorities 03:47:54 ack igarashi 03:48:32 Igarashi: I wanted to talk about outreach 03:49:14 q+ 03:49:17 ... I wonder how W3C Japan shares activity like Web of Things to new members? 03:49:33 q- 03:49:34 qq+ 03:49:36 q- later 03:49:48 q+ to comment about doing more outreach co-located with IETF events 03:49:50 tantek has joined #ac 03:49:56 ack kaz 03:49:56 kaz, you wanted to react to igarashi 03:50:30 kaz: good question. That's why I asked to create dedicated community groups, for Japanese community. 03:51:31 Is it a Japanese comminity about Web of Things? 03:51:39 q+ to also mention local seminars we organize (and to note that we are always looking for new speakers for those — who can be outside Japan, presenting remotely) 03:51:51 ack MikeSmith 03:51:51 MikeSmith, you wanted to comment about interactions with Japanese government ministries, and how that relates to some of our member priorities and to comment about doing more 03:51:54 ... outreach co-located with IETF events and to also mention local seminars we organize (and to note that we are always looking for new speakers for those — who can be outside 03:51:54 ... Japan, presenting remotely) 03:52:35 MikeSmith: we regularly have sessions that we call seminars, someone outside or on the Team does a technical presentation. 03:52:44 Is the seminar open to non-members? 03:53:11 I guest "we" is W3c Japan 03:53:20 s/guest/gess/ 03:53:54 ... a different type of outreach 03:53:57 q+ 03:54:30 s/we regu/we, W3C Japan, regu/ 03:54:52 s/call seminars/call "W3C Japan Mini Member Meetings"/ 03:55:15 q? 03:55:18 q+ 03:55:34 Igarashi: one of the problems may be that we can't hold huge events 03:55:44 ack igarashi 03:56:02 ack igarashi 03:56:03 ...we might target some particular community or industry 03:56:45 ...Kaz' idea about creating WoT community group is good 03:56:48 ack kaz 03:57:16 ... I have a question for Mizushima-san: is there any issue that you would like to create a community group for? 03:57:26 q+ 03:58:15 Mizushima-san: many people don't know the technology, so we must promote the many opinions from stakeholders. 03:59:16 ack kaz 03:59:51 Kaz: I wanted to mention several topics quickly - Mizushima-san is concerned about deployment and outreach - that's right, and why we created separate CGs for this. 03:59:55 outreach idea: try to organize more outreach efforts to sync up with IETF face-to-face events https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/upcoming/ 04:00:54 WendyReid: thanks all, let's wrap up. Thanks everyone! 04:01:14 s/CGs for this./TFs within the WoT-JP CG, i.e., outreahc, deployment, use case and translation. Also/ 04:01:22 rrsagent, make minutes 04:01:23 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/16-ac-minutes.html cwilso 04:02:00 Zakim, make minutes 04:02:00 I don't understand 'make minutes', cwilso 04:02:00 rrsagent, make logs public 04:02:17 s/. Also/. Also Mizushima-san has just volunteered to become the TF lead for WoT Use Cases so that he himself can become the bridge for outreach and deployment. That kind of active participation from the Membership should be one of the keys :)/ 04:02:24 AramZS has joined #ac 04:02:28 rrsagent, draft minutes 04:02:30 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/16-ac-minutes.html kaz 04:02:36 thanks much wendyreid for chairing in this timezone especially and cwilso for scribing 04:05:52 s/that's right, and why/that's why/ 04:05:56 rrsagent, draft minutes 04:05:58 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/16-ac-minutes.html kaz 04:06:09 s/outreahc/outreach/ 04:06:11 rrsagent, draft minutes 04:06:12 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/16-ac-minutes.html kaz 04:08:09 s/TF lead for WoT Use Cases/TF lead for WoT Use Cases TF of the WoT IG/ 04:08:10 rrsagent, draft minutes 04:08:12 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/16-ac-minutes.html kaz 04:10:14 michaelchampion has left #ac 05:17:58 s/Inubation/Incubation/g 05:22:38 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/16-ac-minutes.html tantek 05:28:39 s/it's at at editors/it's at editors 05:35:27 s/and i will tel you/and I will tell you 05:40:33 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/16-ac-minutes.html tantek 06:23:10 naomi has joined #ac 06:34:35 naomi has joined #ac 06:53:24 naomi has joined #ac 07:12:01 naomi has joined #ac 07:35:45 naomi has joined #ac 08:13:43 naomi has joined #ac 08:38:12 naomi has joined #ac 08:55:03 Rossen has joined #ac 09:15:05 naomi has joined #ac 10:20:28 naomi has joined #ac 10:55:49 Rossen has joined #ac 11:52:40 amy has joined #ac 12:30:07 kirkwood has joined #AC 13:35:03 kirkwood has joined #AC 13:40:11 kirkwood has joined #AC 13:45:50 kirkwood has joined #AC 14:20:50 kirkwood has joined #AC 14:26:29 kirkwood has joined #AC 20:09:39 naomi has joined #ac 22:42:30 naomi has joined #ac 01:02:56 naomi has joined #ac 03:56:26 Jay has joined #ac 10:06:22 naomi has joined #ac 10:39:18 naomi has joined #ac 12:38:00 amy has joined #ac 13:00:11 naomi has joined #ac 13:02:20 kirkwood has joined #AC 13:57:02 tzviya has joined #ac 14:05:14 wendyreid has joined #ac 14:32:52 Jay has joined #ac 14:42:40 naomi has joined #ac 15:01:05 ShawnT has joined #ac 15:01:30 atsushi has joined #ac 16:00:21 nigel has joined #ac 16:15:51 ShawnT has joined #ac 16:26:03 ShawnT has joined #ac 17:50:11 kirkwood_ has joined #AC 17:58:38 spectranaut_ has joined #ac 18:09:27 kirkwood_ has joined #AC 18:38:51 kirkwood_ has joined #AC 18:54:29 kirkwood_ has joined #AC 19:00:18 kirkwood_ has joined #AC 19:22:53 bkardell_ has joined #ac 20:54:36 Rossen has joined #ac 21:54:59 kirkwood has joined #AC 23:14:53 kirkwood has joined #AC 00:40:24 naomi has joined #ac 01:57:38 naomi has joined #ac 03:03:24 naomi has joined #ac 06:10:51 naomi has joined #ac 07:33:20 naomi has joined #ac 10:42:30 naomi has joined #ac 11:32:45 naomi has joined #ac 12:05:34 amy has joined #ac 12:30:12 kirkwood has joined #AC 13:57:22 naomi has joined #ac 14:32:06 naomi has joined #ac 15:32:41 kirkwood has joined #AC 15:39:17 kirkwood has joined #AC 15:44:17 kirkwood has joined #AC 16:23:32 kirkwood has joined #AC 16:49:58 rrsagent, bye 16:49:58 I see no action items