IRC log of apa on 2024-01-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:30:09 [RRSAgent]

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/01/10-apa-irc

13:30:13 [Zakim]

RRSAgent, make logs Public

13:30:14 [Zakim]

please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), janina

13:30:16 [janina]

Chair: Janina

13:30:16 [janina]

agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements

13:30:16 [janina]

agenda+ New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22

13:30:20 [janina]

agenda+ A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review

13:30:23 [janina]

agenda+ Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues

13:30:25 [Roy]

Roy has joined #apa

13:30:25 [janina]

agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html

13:30:28 [janina]

agenda+ CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues

13:30:30 [janina]

agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open

13:30:33 [janina]

agenda+ Task Force & Deliverables Updates

13:30:35 [janina]

agenda+ Other Business

13:30:38 [janina]

agenda+ be done

13:30:53 [janina]

Meeting: APA Weekly Teleconference

13:31:00 [janina]

Date: 10 Jan 2024

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15:01:10 [janina]

agenda?

15:01:34 [niklasegger]

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15:01:40 [niklasegger]

present+

15:01:51 [JenStrickland]

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15:01:58 [JenStrickland]

present+

15:02:49 [PaulG]

present+

15:02:57 [janina]

zakim, who's here?

15:02:57 [Zakim]

Present: niklasegger, JenStrickland, PaulG

15:02:59 [Zakim]

On IRC I see JenStrickland, niklasegger, matatk, mike_beganyi, PaulG, kirkwood, Roy, RRSAgent, Zakim, gb, janina, matrix638, AnthonySpencer, sonicscrewdriver, imlostlmao, gonzu_15,

15:02:59 [Zakim]

... M2cshkpcgrp, joraboi445, SintayewGashaw, slightlyoff, Rachael, cwilso, tink, ada, jcraig, agendabot

15:03:27 [mike_beganyi]

present+

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15:03:44 [IrfanA]

present+

15:03:56 [mike_beganyi]

scribe+

15:04:06 [matatk]

present_

15:04:09 [matatk]

present+

15:04:11 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, take up item 1

15:04:12 [Zakim]

agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from janina]

15:04:16 [matatk]

s/present_//

15:04:26 [matatk]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:04:27 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/10-apa-minutes.html matatk

15:04:34 [Leandro]

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present+

15:04:56 [mike_beganyi]

janina: any items to add to agenda?

15:05:14 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: we have several new people, welcome all. perhaps a round of introductions?

15:05:30 [mike_beganyi]

janina: certainly

15:05:54 [mike_beganyi]

introductions occur

15:07:22 [janina]

zakim, who's here?

15:07:22 [Zakim]

Present: niklasegger, JenStrickland, PaulG, mike_beganyi, IrfanA, matatk, Leandro

15:07:25 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Leandro, IrfanA, JenStrickland, niklasegger, matatk, mike_beganyi, PaulG, kirkwood, Roy, RRSAgent, Zakim, gb, janina, matrix638, AnthonySpencer, sonicscrewdriver,

15:07:25 [Zakim]

... imlostlmao, gonzu_15, M2cshkpcgrp, joraboi445, SintayewGashaw, slightlyoff, Rachael, cwilso, tink, ada, jcraig, agendabot

15:07:41 [Nichole]

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15:08:21 [Nichole]

present+

15:08:24 [Fredrik]

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15:08:25 [Fredrik]

present+

15:09:01 [janina]

zakim, who's here?

15:09:01 [Zakim]

Present: niklasegger, JenStrickland, PaulG, mike_beganyi, IrfanA, matatk, Leandro, Nichole, Fredrik

15:09:03 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Fredrik, Nichole, Leandro, IrfanA, JenStrickland, niklasegger, matatk, mike_beganyi, PaulG, kirkwood, Roy, RRSAgent, Zakim, gb, janina, matrix638, AnthonySpencer,

15:09:03 [Zakim]

... sonicscrewdriver, imlostlmao, gonzu_15, M2cshkpcgrp, joraboi445, SintayewGashaw, slightlyoff, Rachael, cwilso, tink, ada, jcraig, agendabot

15:13:34 [janina]

regrets+ Gottfried_Zimmerman

15:16:49 [mike_beganyi]

janina: welcome to all the new folks. we are happy to have you with us.

15:16:55 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, take up next item

15:16:55 [Zakim]

agendum 2 -- New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 -- taken up [from janina]

15:17:09 [mike_beganyi]

Roy: no new charters yet

15:17:11 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, close this item

15:17:11 [Zakim]

agendum 2 closed

15:17:12 [Zakim]

I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:17:12 [Zakim]

3. A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review [from janina]

15:17:30 [Neha]

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15:17:47 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, close item 3, 4, 5

15:17:47 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'close item 3, 4, 5', mike_beganyi

15:17:59 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, close this item 3, 4, 5

15:17:59 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'close this item 3, 4, 5', mike_beganyi

15:18:13 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, close this item

15:18:13 [Zakim]

I do not know what agendum had been taken up, mike_beganyi

15:18:23 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, next item

15:18:23 [Zakim]

agendum 3 -- A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review -- taken up [from janina]

15:18:32 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, close this item

15:18:32 [Zakim]

agendum 3 closed

15:18:33 [Zakim]

I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:18:33 [Zakim]

4. Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues [from janina]

15:18:33 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, next item

15:18:34 [Zakim]

agendum 4 -- Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues -- taken up [from janina]

15:18:37 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, close this item

15:18:37 [Zakim]

agendum 4 closed

15:18:38 [Zakim]

I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:18:38 [Zakim]

5. new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html [from janina]

15:18:42 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, next item

15:18:42 [Zakim]

agendum 5 -- new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html -- taken up [from janina]

15:18:53 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, close this item

15:18:53 [Zakim]

agendum 5 closed

15:18:54 [Zakim]

I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:18:54 [Zakim]

6. CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues [from janina]

15:18:55 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, next item

15:18:55 [Zakim]

agendum 6 -- CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues -- taken up [from janina]

15:19:29 [PaulG]

https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/9644

15:19:30 [gb]

https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/9644 -> Issue 9644 [css-viewport] [css-zoom] Should zoom affect iframes? (by chrishtr) [css-viewport-1]

15:19:38 [PaulG]

iframes to be affected by zoom

15:19:55 [mike_beganyi]

PaulG: zoom property of CSS affecting iframes

15:20:27 [mike_beganyi]

PaulG: not browser zoom. when zoom is applied in CSS and changes the size of an element. based on last report I gave, the box model won't report the new size it will report the original size

15:20:35 [PaulG]

https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/9746

15:20:35 [mike_beganyi]

PaulG: this is an effort to make zoom consistent

15:20:36 [gb]

https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/9746 -> Issue 9746 [css-conditional-4] Need a way in CSS to test for support of HTML features (by jensimmons) [css-conditional-4]

15:20:44 [PaulG]

HTML element and attribute support queries in CSS

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15:21:07 [mike_beganyi]

PaulG: about HTML element and attribute support for media queries in CSS. very interesting. helpful for progressive enhancement and for cross-platform to provide better fallbacks

15:21:44 [mike_beganyi]

PaulG: came out of Safari's switch control (basically checkbox). it can be styled and is a native switch control.

15:21:59 [mike_beganyi]

PaulG: no issues with what is happening. I think they're on the right path.

15:22:19 [mike_beganyi]

PaulG: these two items are applicable to accessibility

15:22:35 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: trying to undestand query, if you query for the attribute it will return true if true.

15:22:57 [mike_beganyi]

PaulG: this is a browser capability query. does the browser understand switch or is it parsing an attribute

15:23:35 [mike_beganyi]

PaulG: goes for elements as well. can have javascript dialog take a dialog's place if necessary. mostly for non-standard kiosk browsers, older devices, and others that can't be updated regularly

15:24:09 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: right now, could make CSS selector that has attribute of switch, but that won't behave as expected because the browser doesn't understand that attribute

15:24:44 [mike_beganyi]

PaulG: specifically "HTML" is the suggested syntax. example queries there. that would be new syntax and new capability

15:25:20 [mike_beganyi]

PaulG: CSS looking at "HTML" if it doesn't understand it, it won't use it

15:25:41 [mike_beganyi]

janina: the pattern for handling attributes in Adapt, would this be similar, Mat?

15:26:26 [mike_beganyi]

PaulG: my guess is only if it is exposed through the javascript. make it reflect into javascript. if it did, Adapt could make better use of it

15:26:43 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: how do you mean reflect in the Javascript?

15:27:03 [mike_beganyi]

PaulG: pattern of making things available in Javascript. this is still early but seems to have support.

15:28:23 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: question about zoom. no concerns about it. could you explain the bit where you mention that if you're in the iframe and you calculate layout, and the iframe is being zoomed, the calculations return the results before the zoom is applied?

15:29:03 [mike_beganyi]

PaulG: right. the concern is that if you're applying zoom from a higher-order iframe into a lower-level iframe, if it's not supported, you might be manipulated and then covering.

15:29:32 [mike_beganyi]

PaulG: wanting to make sure nothing is covered. can't guarantee if someone is applying zoom. if not the same origin, can't query the parent frame to understand I'm being zoomed

15:29:50 [mike_beganyi]

PaulG: will report the CSS is manipulating the zoom. basically have to constantly query to know zoom

15:31:14 [janina]

q?

15:31:22 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: what situations would it break technically?

15:32:14 [matatk]

q?

15:32:18 [mike_beganyi]

PaulG: if using zoom on hover, you would zoom on focus. it should not be zooming something that covers an interactive element. people commonly animate using zoom. none of that has changed, it's just that there's potential for architecture to affect zoom in their iframes

15:33:53 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: thanks Paul. this is an interesting conversation.

15:35:18 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, take up item 7

15:35:18 [Zakim]

agendum 7 -- Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open -- taken up [from janina]

15:35:29 [mike_beganyi]

janina: any open actions to report on?

15:36:17 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: we have a review we're working on for BBS Crypto Suite (Verifiable Credentials WG). we discussed on a call before the holiday.

15:36:46 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: had a concern about this not going near humans, mandating a particular format for dates. left a comment in their repository regarding that

15:37:29 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: haven't heard back yet. I did notice that they were mandating that we use UTC dates. posted a question about that hoping for a response soon

15:37:45 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: might need help reviewing the spec itself. will post on the list if we need additional help

15:37:47 [janina]

q?

15:38:10 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, take up next item

15:38:10 [Zakim]

agendum 6 -- CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues -- taken up [from janina]

15:38:18 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, close this item

15:38:20 [Zakim]

agendum 6 closed

15:38:20 [Zakim]

I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:38:20 [Zakim]

8. Task Force & Deliverables Updates [from janina]

15:38:30 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, take up item 8

15:38:31 [Zakim]

agendum 8 -- Task Force & Deliverables Updates -- taken up [from janina]

15:38:40 [janina]

subtopic: COGA

15:39:55 [matatk]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/

15:40:31 [janina]

subtopic: Adapt

15:40:45 [matatk]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/adapt/

15:41:33 [mike_beganyi]

janina: activity which started out of COGA's use cases. Adapt TF taking on support for augmentative communication symbol sets. allowing authors to decorate using AAC symbols where possible.

15:42:04 [mike_beganyi]

janina: opportunity to do it is there. we are moving forward on this. debates on how to affect that most effectively.

15:42:41 [mike_beganyi]

janina: making content more manageable. could be a curb cut for all accessibility. might not have accessibility needs to appreciate a decorated login page

15:43:10 [mike_beganyi]

janina: exciting opportunities here.

15:44:05 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: some newer work to mention. discussion recently about how trigger warnings themselves can be triggering.

15:44:43 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: would be better if content wasn't displayed and without fanfare. would be a better use case for many users. sounds like media queries. could be an avenue to explore

15:45:29 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: maybe we can make a case for expanding media queries

15:45:49 [mike_beganyi]

janina: this is a very active area

15:46:30 [mike_beganyi]

PaulG: obviously I think it's a good idea. how it gets put together will be interesting to see. could be like data attributes in HTML. the trick would be having the user agent expose the topic or name of the content and allow the person to opt-in to show or hide

15:46:44 [janina]

q?

15:46:59 [mike_beganyi]

PaulG: could be rife with misspellings and other concerns but this will remain to be seen.

15:47:37 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: as you suggest, data attributes may be the best avenue

15:48:26 [janina]

subtopic: Spoken Presentation

15:48:27 [matatk]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/pronunciation/

15:49:08 [IrfanA]

me/ sorry I was on mute

15:49:29 [mike_beganyi]

PaulG: waiting for additional comments on discussion. will need to present our best effort to get break in. that is the part of the spec that is being rubbed against. it's Pause/Break

15:49:44 [mike_beganyi]

PaulG: shift load of Pause/Break into reviving CSS speech or something else.

15:50:19 [mike_beganyi]

janina: trying to come up with a consistent way for web content authors you can rely on TTS engines that support SSL. we want to control how things are pronounced. that is not possible today and it is a problem for many reaosns

15:50:26 [janina]

subtopic: RQTF

15:50:30 [mike_beganyi]

s/ reaosns / reasons /

15:50:41 [matatk]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/research-questions/

15:51:07 [mike_beganyi]

janina: into collaborative tools. additional collaborative programming environments. looking at accessibility challenges in these interfaces.

15:51:21 [mike_beganyi]

janina: how do we manage complexity? what do we name our target activity areas?

15:52:25 [mike_beganyi]

janina: whole series of questions about this and all work.

15:52:36 [janina]

subtopic: Maturity Model

15:52:39 [matatk]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/maturity-model/

15:53:41 [mike_beganyi]

janina: building a framework for how to track accessibility in any organization from one-person to large entity. trying to cover all ways that accessibility needs to be tracked so it's easier to track progress

15:53:43 [matatk]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:53:45 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/10-apa-minutes.html matatk

15:53:59 [janina]

subtopic: FAST

15:54:02 [matatk]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/fast/

15:56:03 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, take up next item

15:56:03 [Zakim]

agendum 9 -- Other Business -- taken up [from janina]

15:56:28 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, close this item

15:56:28 [Zakim]

agendum 9 closed

15:56:29 [Zakim]

I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:

15:56:29 [Zakim]

10. be done [from janina]

15:57:38 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, close this item

15:57:38 [Zakim]

I do not know what agendum had been taken up, mike_beganyi

15:57:38 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, take up item 10

15:57:38 [Zakim]

agendum 10 -- be done -- taken up [from janina]

15:57:38 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, close this item

15:57:38 [Zakim]

agendum 10 closed

15:57:38 [Zakim]

I see nothing remaining on the agenda

15:57:38 [PaulG]

PaulG has left #apa

15:57:38 [mike_beganyi]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:57:39 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/10-apa-minutes.html mike_beganyi

15:57:54 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, bye

15:57:54 [Zakim]

leaving. As of this point the attendees have been niklasegger, JenStrickland, PaulG, mike_beganyi, IrfanA, matatk, Leandro, Nichole, Fredrik

15:57:54 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #apa

15:59:06 [janina]

rrsagent, bye

15:59:06 [RRSAgent]

I see no action items