13:30:09 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #apa
13:30:13 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/01/10-apa-irc
13:30:13 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:30:14 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), janina
13:30:16 <janina> Chair:  Janina
13:30:16 <janina> agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
13:30:16 <janina> agenda+ New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22
13:30:20 <janina> agenda+ A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review
13:30:23 <janina> agenda+ Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues
13:30:25 <Roy> Roy has joined #apa
13:30:25 <janina> agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
13:30:28 <janina> agenda+ CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues
13:30:30 <janina> agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open
13:30:33 <janina> agenda+ Task Force & Deliverables Updates
13:30:35 <janina> agenda+ Other Business
13:30:38 <janina> agenda+ be done
13:30:53 <janina>  Meeting: APA Weekly Teleconference
13:31:00 <janina> Date: 10 Jan 2024
14:32:17 <kirkwood> kirkwood has joined #APA
14:45:03 <PaulG> PaulG has joined #apa
15:00:45 <mike_beganyi> mike_beganyi has joined #apa
15:01:08 <matatk> matatk has joined #apa
15:01:10 <janina> agenda?
15:01:34 <niklasegger> niklasegger has joined #apa
15:01:40 <niklasegger> present+
15:01:51 <JenStrickland> JenStrickland has joined #apa
15:01:58 <JenStrickland> present+
15:02:49 <PaulG> present+
15:02:57 <janina> zakim, who's here?
15:02:57 <Zakim> Present: niklasegger, JenStrickland, PaulG
15:02:59 <Zakim> On IRC I see JenStrickland, niklasegger, matatk, mike_beganyi, PaulG, kirkwood, Roy, RRSAgent, Zakim, gb, janina, matrix638, AnthonySpencer, sonicscrewdriver, imlostlmao, gonzu_15,
15:02:59 <Zakim> ... M2cshkpcgrp, joraboi445, SintayewGashaw, slightlyoff, Rachael, cwilso, tink, ada, jcraig, agendabot
15:03:27 <mike_beganyi> present+
15:03:40 <IrfanA> IrfanA has joined #apa
15:03:44 <IrfanA> present+
15:03:56 <mike_beganyi> scribe+
15:04:06 <matatk> present_
15:04:09 <matatk> present+
15:04:11 <mike_beganyi> zakim, take up item 1
15:04:12 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from janina]
15:04:16 <matatk> s/present_//
15:04:26 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
15:04:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/10-apa-minutes.html matatk
15:04:34 <Leandro> Leandro has joined #APA
15:04:46 <Leandro> present+
15:04:56 <mike_beganyi> janina: any items to add to agenda?
15:05:14 <mike_beganyi> matatk: we have several new people, welcome all. perhaps a round of introductions?
15:05:30 <mike_beganyi> janina: certainly
15:05:54 <mike_beganyi> introductions occur
15:07:22 <janina> zakim, who's here?
15:07:22 <Zakim> Present: niklasegger, JenStrickland, PaulG, mike_beganyi, IrfanA, matatk, Leandro
15:07:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see Leandro, IrfanA, JenStrickland, niklasegger, matatk, mike_beganyi, PaulG, kirkwood, Roy, RRSAgent, Zakim, gb, janina, matrix638, AnthonySpencer, sonicscrewdriver,
15:07:25 <Zakim> ... imlostlmao, gonzu_15, M2cshkpcgrp, joraboi445, SintayewGashaw, slightlyoff, Rachael, cwilso, tink, ada, jcraig, agendabot
15:07:41 <Nichole> Nichole has joined #APA
15:08:21 <Nichole> present+
15:08:24 <Fredrik> Fredrik has joined #apa
15:08:25 <Fredrik> present+
15:09:01 <janina> zakim, who's here?
15:09:01 <Zakim> Present: niklasegger, JenStrickland, PaulG, mike_beganyi, IrfanA, matatk, Leandro, Nichole, Fredrik
15:09:03 <Zakim> On IRC I see Fredrik, Nichole, Leandro, IrfanA, JenStrickland, niklasegger, matatk, mike_beganyi, PaulG, kirkwood, Roy, RRSAgent, Zakim, gb, janina, matrix638, AnthonySpencer,
15:09:03 <Zakim> ... sonicscrewdriver, imlostlmao, gonzu_15, M2cshkpcgrp, joraboi445, SintayewGashaw, slightlyoff, Rachael, cwilso, tink, ada, jcraig, agendabot
15:13:34 <janina> regrets+ Gottfried_Zimmerman
15:16:49 <mike_beganyi> janina: welcome to all the new folks. we are happy to have you with us.
15:16:55 <mike_beganyi> zakim, take up next item
15:16:55 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 -- taken up [from janina]
15:17:09 <mike_beganyi> Roy: no new charters yet
15:17:11 <mike_beganyi> zakim, close this item
15:17:11 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
15:17:12 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:17:12 <Zakim> 3. A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review [from janina]
15:17:30 <Neha> Neha has joined #APA
15:17:47 <mike_beganyi> zakim, close item 3, 4, 5
15:17:47 <Zakim> I don't understand 'close item 3, 4, 5', mike_beganyi
15:17:59 <mike_beganyi> zakim, close this item 3, 4, 5
15:17:59 <Zakim> I don't understand 'close this item 3, 4, 5', mike_beganyi
15:18:13 <mike_beganyi> zakim, close this item
15:18:13 <Zakim> I do not know what agendum had been taken up, mike_beganyi
15:18:23 <mike_beganyi> zakim, next item
15:18:23 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review -- taken up [from janina]
15:18:32 <mike_beganyi> zakim, close this item
15:18:32 <Zakim> agendum 3 closed
15:18:33 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:18:33 <Zakim> 4. Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues [from janina]
15:18:33 <mike_beganyi> zakim, next item
15:18:34 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues -- taken up [from janina]
15:18:37 <mike_beganyi> zakim, close this item
15:18:37 <Zakim> agendum 4 closed
15:18:38 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:18:38 <Zakim> 5. new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html [from janina]
15:18:42 <mike_beganyi> zakim, next item
15:18:42 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html -- taken up [from janina]
15:18:53 <mike_beganyi> zakim, close this item
15:18:53 <Zakim> agendum 5 closed
15:18:54 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:18:54 <Zakim> 6. CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues [from janina]
15:18:55 <mike_beganyi> zakim, next item
15:18:55 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues -- taken up [from janina]
15:19:29 <PaulG> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/9644
15:19:30 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/9644 -> Issue 9644 [css-viewport] [css-zoom] Should zoom affect iframes? (by chrishtr) [css-viewport-1]
15:19:38 <PaulG> iframes to be affected by zoom
15:19:55 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: zoom property of CSS affecting iframes
15:20:27 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: not browser zoom. when zoom is applied in CSS and changes the size of an element. based on last report I gave, the box model won't report the new size it will report the original size
15:20:35 <PaulG> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/9746
15:20:35 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: this is an effort to make zoom consistent
15:20:36 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/9746 -> Issue 9746 [css-conditional-4] Need a way in CSS to test for support of HTML features (by jensimmons) [css-conditional-4]
15:20:44 <PaulG> HTML element and attribute support queries in CSS
15:20:47 <kirkwood> kirkwood has joined #APA
15:21:07 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: about HTML element and attribute support for media queries in CSS. very interesting. helpful for progressive enhancement and for cross-platform to provide better fallbacks
15:21:44 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: came out of Safari's switch control (basically checkbox). it can be styled and is a native switch control.
15:21:59 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: no issues with what is happening. I think they're on the right path.
15:22:19 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: these two items are applicable to accessibility
15:22:35 <mike_beganyi> matatk: trying to undestand query, if you query for the attribute it will return true if true.
15:22:57 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: this is a browser capability query. does the browser understand switch or is it parsing an attribute
15:23:35 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: goes for elements as well. can have javascript dialog take a dialog's place if necessary. mostly for non-standard kiosk browsers, older devices, and others that can't be updated regularly
15:24:09 <mike_beganyi> matatk: right now, could make CSS selector that has attribute of switch, but that won't behave as expected because the browser doesn't understand that attribute
15:24:44 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: specifically "HTML" is the suggested syntax. example queries there. that would be new syntax and new capability
15:25:20 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: CSS looking at "HTML" if it doesn't understand it, it won't use it
15:25:41 <mike_beganyi> janina: the pattern for handling attributes in Adapt, would this be similar, Mat?
15:26:26 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: my guess is only if it is exposed through the javascript. make it reflect into javascript. if it did, Adapt could make better use of it
15:26:43 <mike_beganyi> matatk: how do you mean reflect in the Javascript?
15:27:03 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: pattern of making things available in Javascript. this is still early but seems to have support.
15:28:23 <mike_beganyi> matatk: question about zoom. no concerns about it. could you explain the bit where you mention that if you're in the iframe and you calculate layout, and the iframe is being zoomed, the calculations return the results before the zoom is applied?
15:29:03 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: right. the concern is that if you're applying zoom from a higher-order iframe into a lower-level iframe, if it's not supported, you might be manipulated and then covering.
15:29:32 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: wanting to make sure nothing is covered. can't guarantee if someone is applying zoom. if not the same origin, can't query the parent frame to understand I'm being zoomed
15:29:50 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: will report the CSS is manipulating the zoom. basically have to constantly query to know zoom
15:31:14 <janina> q?
15:31:22 <mike_beganyi> matatk: what situations would it break technically?
15:32:14 <matatk> q?
15:32:18 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: if using zoom on hover, you would zoom on focus. it should not be zooming something that covers an interactive element. people commonly animate using zoom. none of that has changed, it's just that there's potential for architecture to affect zoom in their iframes
15:33:53 <mike_beganyi> matatk: thanks Paul. this is an interesting conversation.
15:35:18 <mike_beganyi> zakim, take up item 7
15:35:18 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open -- taken up [from janina]
15:35:29 <mike_beganyi> janina: any open actions to report on?
15:36:17 <mike_beganyi> matatk: we have a review we're working on for BBS Crypto Suite (Verifiable Credentials WG). we discussed on a call before the holiday.
15:36:46 <mike_beganyi> matatk: had a concern about this not going near humans, mandating a particular format for dates. left a comment in their repository regarding that
15:37:29 <mike_beganyi> matatk: haven't heard back yet. I did notice that they were mandating that we use UTC dates. posted a question about that hoping for a response soon
15:37:45 <mike_beganyi> matatk: might need help reviewing the spec itself. will post on the list if we need additional help
15:37:47 <janina> q?
15:38:10 <mike_beganyi> zakim, take up next item
15:38:10 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues -- taken up [from janina]
15:38:18 <mike_beganyi> zakim, close this item
15:38:20 <Zakim> agendum 6 closed
15:38:20 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:38:20 <Zakim> 8. Task Force & Deliverables Updates [from janina]
15:38:30 <mike_beganyi> zakim, take up item 8
15:38:31 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- Task Force & Deliverables Updates -- taken up [from janina]
15:38:40 <janina> subtopic: COGA
15:39:55 <matatk> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/
15:40:31 <janina> subtopic: Adapt
15:40:45 <matatk> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/adapt/
15:41:33 <mike_beganyi> janina: activity which started out of COGA's use cases. Adapt TF taking on support for augmentative communication symbol sets. allowing authors to decorate using AAC symbols where possible.
15:42:04 <mike_beganyi> janina: opportunity to do it is there. we are moving forward on this. debates on how to affect that most effectively.
15:42:41 <mike_beganyi> janina: making content more manageable. could be a curb cut for all accessibility. might not have accessibility needs to appreciate a decorated login page
15:43:10 <mike_beganyi> janina: exciting opportunities here.
15:44:05 <mike_beganyi> matatk: some newer work to mention. discussion recently about how trigger warnings themselves can be triggering.
15:44:43 <mike_beganyi> matatk: would be better if content wasn't displayed and without fanfare. would be a better use case for many users. sounds like media queries. could be an avenue to explore
15:45:29 <mike_beganyi> matatk: maybe we can make a case for expanding media queries
15:45:49 <mike_beganyi> janina: this is a very active area
15:46:30 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: obviously I think it's a good idea. how it gets put together will be interesting to see. could be like data attributes in HTML. the trick would be having the user agent expose the topic or name of the content and allow the person to opt-in to show or hide
15:46:44 <janina> q?
15:46:59 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: could be rife with misspellings and other concerns but this will remain to be seen.
15:47:37 <mike_beganyi> matatk: as you suggest, data attributes may be the best avenue
15:48:26 <janina> subtopic: Spoken Presentation
15:48:27 <matatk> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/pronunciation/
15:49:08 <IrfanA> me/ sorry I was on mute
15:49:29 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: waiting for additional comments on discussion. will need to present our best effort to get break in. that is the part of the spec that is being rubbed against. it's Pause/Break
15:49:44 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: shift load of Pause/Break into reviving CSS speech or something else.
15:50:19 <mike_beganyi> janina: trying to come up with a consistent way for web content authors you can rely on TTS engines that support SSL. we want to control how things are pronounced. that is not possible today and it is a problem for many reaosns
15:50:26 <janina> subtopic: RQTF
15:50:30 <mike_beganyi> s/ reaosns / reasons /
15:50:41 <matatk> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/research-questions/
15:51:07 <mike_beganyi> janina: into collaborative tools. additional collaborative programming environments. looking at accessibility challenges in these interfaces.
15:51:21 <mike_beganyi> janina: how do we manage complexity? what do we name our target activity areas?
15:52:25 <mike_beganyi> janina: whole series of questions about this and all work.
15:52:36 <janina> subtopic: Maturity Model
15:52:39 <matatk> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/maturity-model/
15:53:41 <mike_beganyi> janina: building a framework for how to track accessibility in any organization from one-person to large entity. trying to cover all ways that accessibility needs to be tracked so it's easier to track progress
15:53:43 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
15:53:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/10-apa-minutes.html matatk
15:53:59 <janina> subtopic: FAST
15:54:02 <matatk> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/fast/
15:56:03 <mike_beganyi> zakim, take up next item
15:56:03 <Zakim> agendum 9 -- Other Business -- taken up [from janina]
15:56:28 <mike_beganyi> zakim, close this item
15:56:28 <Zakim> agendum 9 closed
15:56:29 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
15:56:29 <Zakim> 10. be done [from janina]
15:57:38 <mike_beganyi> zakim, close this item
15:57:38 <Zakim> I do not know what agendum had been taken up, mike_beganyi
15:57:38 <mike_beganyi> zakim, take up item 10
15:57:38 <Zakim> agendum 10 -- be done -- taken up [from janina]
15:57:38 <mike_beganyi> zakim, close this item
15:57:38 <Zakim> agendum 10 closed
15:57:38 <Zakim> I see nothing remaining on the agenda
15:57:38 <PaulG> PaulG has left #apa
15:57:38 <mike_beganyi> rrsagent, make minutes
15:57:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/10-apa-minutes.html mike_beganyi
15:57:54 <mike_beganyi> zakim, bye
15:57:54 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been niklasegger, JenStrickland, PaulG, mike_beganyi, IrfanA, matatk, Leandro, Nichole, Fredrik
15:57:54 <Zakim> Zakim has left #apa
15:59:06 <janina> rrsagent, bye
15:59:06 <RRSAgent> I see no action items