12:53:39 RRSAgent has joined #coga 12:53:43 logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/01/08-coga-irc 12:53:43 RRSAgent, make logs Public 12:53:44 Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 15:34:04 RRSAgent has joined #coga 15:34:04 logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/01/08-coga-irc 15:34:06 RRSAgent, make logs Public 15:34:08 Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 15:34:54 RRSAgent, publish minutes 15:35:25 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/08-coga-minutes.html lisa 15:36:33 regrets+ rain 15:40:38 scribe: abby 15:54:24 agenda? 16:00:51 abbey has joined #coga 16:01:26 julierawe has joined #coga 16:01:29 present+ 16:02:01 scribe+ abbey 16:02:02 tburtin has joined #coga 16:02:14 JennieDelisi has joined #coga 16:02:14 present+ 16:02:15 next item 16:02:20 present+ 16:02:40 reminder to everyone to sign up to scribe. There are new weeks added to the scribe page 16:02:42 next item 16:02:43 Jan_ has joined #coga 16:02:50 ack next 16:02:53 next item 16:03:00 close item 1 16:03:07 next item 16:03:40 Lisa asks people to bear with her on typing and typos due to injury 16:04:29 Lisa is sharing old timeline, we will look at new timeline in a few.Rain sent regrets but looked at it and added her items for the timeline 16:05:15 Just realized I put my comment on the wrong timeline today — I need to look at the new timeline 16:05:29 New timeline should have a simple to follow format. link in IRC agenda item 16:05:53 It is a draft, if we do not like it we can update it 16:06:19 Agenda for next year and a half, not yet in detail, just overall aims 16:06:38 Only first phase has detail, by end of that phase we will need to reevaluate 16:07:10 Useful terms: KPIs are Key Performance Indicators and measurable goals 16:07:39 AG, Silver and APA work is not included. This is for COGA independently 16:08:25 W3C note is included in this document 16:08:42 EA has joined #coga 16:08:59 Overall Aim has the two main items. Update Making content usable and update key research papers 16:09:05 Q? 16:09:34 Plan summary has current achievements and a schedule moving forward 16:10:04 Phase 1 is January to April 2024 and includes a 1st editors draft 16:10:42 Placeholders need to be added, Julie and John let us know if this is feasible for internationalization 16:11:16 Place holders for testing based on subgroup work and images for objectives 16:11:49 Next stage May to August will be inputting literary review and making a working draft 16:12:10 Fill in the information we have in phase 2 with some testing if we want to do some 16:12:31 Phase 3 August to December 2024 would be a wide review working draft 16:12:56 This should have most of the information inputted with only minimal changes needed from there 16:13:29 2025 feedback will be collected and 3months later would published based on the feedback, unless it slips due to many changes needed 16:13:45 2026 publish user research update 16:14:06 kirkwood has joined #COGA 16:14:30 The main thing to focus on now is phase 1 - to make editors draft of Making Content Usable with new structure and changes for mental health 16:14:37 q? 16:15:01 How do people feel about this? 16:15:14 q+ 16:15:31 ack next 16:16:07 Julie questions - see note about putting in placeholders if that is going to be inputted. We know that is going to be the trickiest part, we are starting to work with internationalization task force team 16:16:33 Do we think it would be sufficient in editors draft to put "we are working with internationalization team" so that we do not get negative feedback 16:16:50 Lisa - editors draft is something we do not have to show anyone 16:16:54 present+ 16:18:13 Lisa: put in little notes in editors draft because we are not yet worried about specific examples, and get feedback on those 16:19:18 This is where we would say we will put information in 5 languages, but we only have 2 languages yet in the editors draft. 16:19:21 q+ 16:19:33 ack next 16:20:24 Julie: haven't seen structure yet and wondering how similar, different it is from WCAG 3 structure. Is concerned about having 2 versions of clear language 16:21:15 Lisa: clear language is the one that is most similar, but I don't think it is well integrated in terms of titles 16:21:32 This might be a really good conversation to have as a separate agenda item 16:22:28 Lisa is looking at agendas to talk about the similarities between content usable 2 and wcag 3 and it looks to be for January 22nd with MLK on January 15th 16:23:08 Julie: we may need to look at differences, such as minor word changes. Or is it larger and we will run into versioning issues. 16:24:03 Lisa: we should make sure interested parties are aware of this conversation happening January 29th 2024 16:24:21 ack next 16:24:57 Lisa: looking at phase 1 2024 table 16:26:02 The idea is to get it to a stage with an editors draft with main goal and KPIs in column 2 16:26:17 column 3 is current sprints with things that need to be assigned 16:26:45 We need to look at structure agreement from main group and community with current sprint items from actions 16:27:28 Images is waiting and should be done, so current sprint is on hold 16:27:55 ack next 16:27:56 Test strategy is on hold with not current sprint items, only goal as there is a discussion to be had 16:28:22 Research is next the main goal is to get in changes from mental health literary review 16:29:32 Current sprint items are continued work on literary reviews, identifying papers, start user research and agree on structure 16:30:34 ack next 16:31:05 Internationalization kind of discussed with draft solutions to share with COGA and Internationalization to get round of feedback 16:31:14 Note from Julie to ask for volunteers for this 16:31:52 Mental Health group current phase is to confirm and check drafts and issue papers and decide if we need to new issues papers and personas 16:32:11 Community for phase 1 is KPIs that need to be updated with Raine and Kiki 16:32:21 Github issues with Eric needs to be discussed 16:32:44 Sorting how to make changes in branches need to be discussed as well and should be in agenda for later 16:32:46 ack next 16:32:48 Any questions? 16:32:54 Jennie thinks it looks good 16:32:57 John thinks it looks good 16:33:30 Lisa asks Julie as a group head to please put in dates on when expecting things to happen 16:33:36 Any objections? 16:33:41 +1 16:33:50 +1 16:33:51 +1 16:33:51 +1 16:33:57 +1 16:33:59 +1 for document looking good for timeline 16:34:00 +1 16:34:01 +1 16:35:23 Lisa: COGA Making Content Usable v2 - Structure Proposal document is available to review to see how it is different/similar to AG 16:35:46 Lisa: Research plan is approved and is looking at research actions, need feedback from Becca 16:35:52 It is down for mid January 16:36:12 Abbey is doing ADHD Tiffany is database 16:36:43 Lisa: Something to mention, we have in research plan papers that look incredibly relevant 16:37:14 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Cu_qVP1WBz2TbsrAjLbbeb55RAlJmu9kfHamriL1Ocs/edit#gid=1686096268 16:37:42 If you get stuck on this spreadsheet please call out for help so information can be added for documents 16:37:55 If all else fails try to get in citation and key take aways 16:38:49 This lets us know what needs a full review still, and lets individuals select papers 16:39:09 We are having a working meeting on it January 15th for MLK day, doing a literary review together 16:41:04 Jan is working on items 16:41:12 Rashmi is working on items 16:41:46 Rain and John are recruiting artists for images,but on hold until structure group is done 16:41:56 david is not on call, so not talking about his items right now 16:42:14 Julie has next item on agenda: WCAG3 items 16:42:17 next item 16:42:30 close item 3 16:42:32 next item 16:42:55 Julie: I did update sections of document for WCAG3 with WCAG3 as proxy for clear language 16:43:06 Next weeks AG meeting is not on the document 16:43:31 https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/discussions/34#discussioncomment-8036536 16:43:40 Next Tuesday January 16th the AG meeting is discussing coming up with a set of criteria to evaluate different conformance models for WCAG 3 16:43:51 link is shared by julierawe 16:44:09 q+ 16:44:16 Next Tuesday need to look at criteria 16:44:42 Julie added a comment in support of equity that it is essential it is included as a criteria 16:45:01 This will help ensure it includes cognitive disabilities within equity 16:45:24 link is at https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/discussions/34 16:45:25 Please log into github and click smiley face on julie's comment and click the thumbs up 16:45:40 This gives it more weight to discuss 16:47:11 The other comment on complexity, which is a tester time and resources to test the model, expresses concern with it using WCAG 2 v 3 guidelines and not including all users needs 16:47:24 Q? 16:47:49 Julie asks people to please thumbs up and she will send an email with instructions on how to do so 16:48:21 This needs to be done by next Monday, next tuesday will be too late 16:48:58 q+ 16:49:39 link is at https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/discussions/34 16:49:46 Lisa: put link to click on and thumbs up 16:49:57 niamh has joined #coga 16:50:15 Lisa: anyone who is struggling to set up github account can stay on call afterwards to share screen and set up 16:50:27 niamh_ has joined #coga 16:50:43 Lisa: these AG conversations are crucial and once criteria is decided on, it is set 16:51:28 can you share the link again? 16:52:43 https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/discussions/34 16:53:29 I can stay a few minutes after this meeting if anyone is having trouble logging into GitHub and/or adding their own comment or adding thumbs-up to my and Lisa's comments 16:54:13 Link that goes directly to my equity comment: https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/discussions/34#discussioncomment-8007371 16:54:31 Link that goes directly to my complexity comment: https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/discussions/34#discussioncomment-8007402 16:54:43 Link to Lisa's comment: https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/discussions/34#discussioncomment-8036536 16:54:49 Lisa: We want to make sure the coga user needs are considered with this new AG as these conversations occur 16:55:02 If you click on those three links, you can thumbs-up those individual comments without having to scroll through the whole page 16:56:41 +1 to Julie's comment 16:56:54 Discussion leading to testing needing to rely not just on automated testing, and that user testing is also considered. Not necessarily going against repeatability and comprehension, but with good models on how to test those and explain the outcomes 16:56:58 +1 to Julie 16:57:47 Lisa is concerned as repeatability was used to exclude user testing in WCAG 2 16:58:06 *Apologies - have to drop. My question was if the people joining github need to get their account recognized by APA or AG. May help amplify the thumbs up 16:59:21 Julie says you do not have to verify github with APA or AG, no additional step is needed 16:59:24 q? 16:59:29 ack next 16:59:37 ack next 16:59:55 Does anyone want to stay on line to set up github account? 17:00:21 RRSAgent, publish minutes 17:00:22 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/08-coga-minutes.html lisa 17:00:30 ack next 17:00:31 Julie is adding a comment on repeatability and will add that github link 17:01:41 Draft comment: Re repeatability: We need to evaluate models using criteria that does not exclude user testing. User testing must be allowed and encouraged in WCAG3. 17:01:44 Jan: Adding a user testing comment to github as well, the idea of having the exact feedback from users is not realistic but repeatable patterns 17:01:54 https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/discussions/34 17:01:55 +1 17:01:58 RRSAgent, publish minutes 17:01:59 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/08-coga-minutes.html lisa 17:30:09 kirkwood has joined #COGA 18:09:46 kirkwood has joined #COGA