19:57:06 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #vcwg
19:57:10 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/12/20-vcwg-irc
19:57:14 <brent> zakim, start the meeting
19:57:14 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
19:57:15 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), brent
19:57:32 <brent> meeting: Verifiable Credentials Working Group Teleconference
19:57:41 <brent> chair: Brent
19:57:44 <brent> present+
19:58:32 <cabernet> cabernet has joined #vcwg
19:58:35 <cabernet> present+
20:01:41 <decentralgabe> decentralgabe has joined #vcwg
20:01:45 <decentralgabe> present+
20:01:49 <selfissued_> selfissued_ has joined #vcwg
20:01:54 <DavidC> DavidC has joined #vcwg
20:01:55 <selfissued_> present+
20:01:57 <pauld_gs1> pauld_gs1 has joined #vcwg
20:01:57 <GregB> GregB has joined #vcwg
20:01:58 <pauld_gs1> present+
20:02:00 <DavidC> present+
20:02:04 <GregB> present+
20:02:09 <manu> present+
20:02:10 <cabernet_> cabernet_ has joined #vcwg
20:02:11 <dlongley> present+
20:02:15 <TallTed> TallTed has joined #vcwg
20:02:16 <cabernet_> present+
20:04:16 <dlehn> present+
20:04:21 <GregB> scribe+
20:04:44 <GregB> Last VC meeting of 2023
20:05:05 <pdl_asu> pdl_asu has joined #vcwg
20:05:13 <GregB> Goals for this meeting: insure coarse of action for each outstanding before CR issue.
20:05:23 <TallTed> present+
20:05:51 <GregB> brent: Said those things not GregB...
20:05:52 <manu> q+
20:06:06 <dlongley> s/Goals for this/brent: Goals for this/
20:06:06 <brent> ack manu
20:06:16 <dlongley> s/Last VC meeting/brent: Last VC meeting/
20:06:19 <GregB> manu: two topics maintainers for did reg. TAG review status
20:06:30 <dlongley> s/brent: Said those things not GregB...//
20:06:37 <brent> Topic: Maintainers
20:06:39 <manu> Seeking maintainers for DID Spec Registries and VC Spec Directory: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2023Dec/0055.html
20:06:57 <GregB> manu: seeking maintainers for DID/Spec registeries...
20:07:17 <brent> Topic: TAG Review VCDM
20:07:17 <GregB> manu: TAG review VC Data Model 2.0
20:07:37 <manu> TAG Review VCDM v2.0: https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/860#issuecomment-1856254791
20:07:51 <GregB> manu: Nothing major in the TAG review.
20:07:53 <manu> TAG Review Response: https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/860#issuecomment-1865010224
20:08:16 <GregB> manu: tried to address number of issues they brought up.
20:08:34 <GregB> manu: was trying to be timely in response.
20:08:43 <GregB> brent: any comments?
20:08:44 <andres> andres has joined #vcwg
20:08:48 <brent> Topic: Work Item status updates/PRs
20:08:49 <andres> present+
20:08:59 <GregB> brent: work item status/PRs
20:09:02 <selfissued_> q+
20:09:11 <brent> ack selfissued_
20:09:29 <GregB> selfissued: Only two PRs left for VC JOSE/COSE
20:09:47 <GregB> selfissued: would like to close one on this call...
20:10:11 <GregB> brent: continue in depth
20:10:17 <selfissued_> https://github.com/w3c/vc-jose-cose/pulls
20:10:41 <selfissued_> https://github.com/w3c/vc-jose-cose/pull/190
20:10:42 <brent> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-jose-cose/pull/190
20:11:26 <GregB> selfissued: PR190, verification algorithm effort, has been reviewed. TallTed made suggestions.
20:11:53 <GregB> selfissued: Jeff A. "said this is what it was hoping for".
20:12:20 <GregB> brent: Just want Ivan's script to run first...
20:12:29 <DavidC> q+
20:12:40 <brent> ack DavidC
20:12:43 <GregB> selfissued: Can the mintues show we want to merge 190.
20:13:18 <GregB> DavidChadwick: details on PR... Question: on key revocation, key status...
20:13:51 <GregB> selfissued: Short answer no. You might want to file an issue on that. Seems orthogonal.
20:14:25 <GregB> DavidChadwick: PR refers to the key and trust. Important to say something...
20:14:56 <GregB> selfissued: important to making progress. Do you want to propose text?
20:15:07 <GregB> DavidChadwick: will raise an issue.
20:15:17 <GregB> brent: no one opposed to merge.
20:15:18 <selfissued_> https://github.com/w3c/vc-jose-cose/pull/186
20:15:27 <brent> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-jose-cose/pull/186
20:16:16 <GregB> selfissued: PR 186. Objections from me and Manu. It wants to pull out media types. Chose these as a working group. Could they be changed in future.
20:16:28 <manu> q+
20:16:32 <brent> q+
20:16:33 <GregB> selfissued: Would like to move this to post CR status.
20:16:35 <brent> ack manu
20:16:48 <GregB> manu: +1 to what Mike said.
20:17:43 <brent> ack brent
20:17:43 <GregB> selfissued: two related issues from this PR. Will mark as post CR.
20:18:02 <GregB> brent: In light of those issues do we need to keep this PR open.
20:18:26 <GregB> brent: Would it be best to just close this PR?
20:18:47 <GregB> selfissued: Very good.
20:19:24 <DavidC> q+
20:19:33 <GregB> selfissued: observation, once merge/close PR. Have zero before CR. Should be in position to move to CR.
20:19:40 <manu> q+
20:19:50 <brent> ack DavidC
20:19:51 <GregB> selfissued: Would like to move.
20:20:08 <GregB> DavidC: would like to raise about the title of the document
20:20:50 <GregB> DavidC: there is an issue about selective disclosure. There is a IETF SD-JWT doc that doesn't apply to VCs
20:21:08 <GregB> DavidC: Don't have SD in the title.
20:21:24 <selfissued_> q+
20:21:28 <brent> ack manu
20:21:37 <GregB> DavidC: How would people know it supports SD.
20:21:49 <GregB> manu: Where are we on controller doc stuff?
20:22:23 <GregB> manu: Are we waiting on controller document stuff to move into CR
20:22:52 <GregB> manu: Normative versus Non-normative, Who's read the spec?
20:22:58 <brent> ack selfissued_
20:23:04 <selfissued_> https://github.com/w3c/vc-jose-cose/issues/191
20:24:18 <GregB> selfissued: Doc title--simple general titles better than longer titles, example VC DI. Similarly don't want the title more complicated.
20:24:47 <DavidC> q+
20:24:49 <GregB> selfissued: Who's read -- I've done a full pass, I'm comfortable that the normative text is correct.
20:25:30 <GregB> selfissued: controller doc: my understanding for DI weren't going to do the Controller Doc work till after CR. Then work with Manu.
20:25:46 <manu> q+
20:25:58 <brent> ack DavidC
20:26:09 <decentralgabe> I've read it too :)
20:26:25 <GregB> DavidC: I've read various versions of the document at various times. Each time raised issues. I need to do a read now.
20:26:52 <GregB> DavidC: Already have a issue that selective disclosure not well defined.
20:26:53 <brent> ack manu
20:27:13 <GregB> manu: Have we responded to the PINGs review, same for TAG review
20:27:39 <decentralgabe> q+
20:27:41 <GregB> selfissued: I don't know. Worked on it at the time at TPAC.
20:27:45 <brent> ack decentralgabe
20:27:46 <decentralgabe> https://github.com/w3c/vc-jose-cose/issues/192
20:28:22 <GregB> gabe: PING review one issue. Mike responded. Doesn't look like it has substantive changes
20:28:44 <selfissued_> q+
20:28:48 <GregB> brent: might be premature to go into CR at this time.
20:28:52 <brent> ack selfissued_
20:30:06 <GregB> q+
20:30:10 <brent> ack GregB
20:30:16 <manu> scribe+
20:31:26 <selfissued_> q+
20:31:36 <manu> GregB: on vc-di-bbs, we have put in review requests for horizontal review to a11y, i18n, security, privacy, and TAG. We have closed most of the "ancient" issues. We've incorporated a maintainer that hadn't been there. Security and privacy sections ahve been updated. Privacy section is quite thorough on unlinkability properties... David Waite had one item that he wanted to have said, we're trying to catch this up w/ the other suits.
20:31:40 <brent> ack selfissued_
20:32:55 <manu> q+
20:33:03 <brent> ack manu
20:33:39 <GregB> manu: special topic call yesterday, processed all VC data model PRs. Please provide feedback ASAP. All pre CR issues.
20:34:13 <GregB> manu: for DI spec have not pulled in all items. Will need to go through another CR.
20:34:38 <GregB> manu: Bitstring status will try to drive to CR in Feb
20:36:26 <GregB> brent: Before CR PRs don't gain concensus. Then will look at issues and close or defer
20:36:31 <brent> Topic: Issue Discussion
20:36:41 <brent> https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Abefore-CR+sort%3Aupdated-asc
20:37:18 <brent> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/1337
20:37:32 <DavidC_> DavidC_ has joined #vcwg
20:37:36 <DavidC_> present+
20:37:38 <GregB> brent: 1337 Define Alg for Verify. Main PR has been merged. I will close after call today.
20:37:49 <brent> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/1365
20:38:45 <GregB> brent: 1365 Clarify section on VC graph. Has PR 1390. Status: wide array of approvals, some ed.  Most likely to be merged soon. Then will close.
20:38:54 <brent> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/1384
20:39:56 <GregB> brent: 1384 Ext to problems details object. PR 1391 addresses it. Wide array of approvals and a few eds. Expect to be merged soon, once merged will be closed
20:40:07 <brent> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/1386
20:41:01 <GregB> brent: 1386 Important to validate issuer, Oliver Terbu issuer validation; Open PR, not clearly on a path towards concensus
20:41:09 <manu> q+
20:41:23 <GregB> brent: not clear that is isn't going to happen.
20:41:23 <brent> ack manu
20:41:45 <GregB> manu: Mike the change you want. Is that proof needs to be removed by the alg.
20:42:03 <GregB> manu: The way DI works is that proof options are secured too
20:42:17 <dlongley> q+ to say that envelopes are different from embedded proofs
20:42:24 <GregB> selfissued: don't want to return JWS parameters and proof?
20:42:37 <GregB> manu: any info that is secured gets returned back
20:42:38 <DavidC_> q+
20:42:59 <GregB> manu: might get us back into layer violation teritory
20:43:17 <brent> ack dlongley
20:43:17 <Zakim> dlongley, you wanted to say that envelopes are different from embedded proofs
20:43:22 <selfissued_> q+
20:43:50 <brent> ack DavidC_
20:43:53 <GregB> dlongley: We do have two different types of mechanisms (i) envelopes and (ii) embedded proofs. These do behave differently.
20:44:38 <GregB> DavidC: Take a credential -> VC -> credential you don't have the proof.
20:44:41 <brent> ack selfissued_
20:44:56 <manu> q+
20:45:16 <dlongley> q+ to say that i think that embedded mechanisms can do either of these -- and if we want to clearly say that you can ask for either, that's fine
20:45:19 <GregB> selfissued: Aligned with DavidC. More of a layer violation if you get different result
20:45:40 <GregB> selfissued: request to David a change to PR asking for this
20:45:43 <brent> ack manu
20:46:11 <GregB> manu: This PR is about issuer validation, the thing you are requesting is something else
20:46:27 <GregB> manu: Doesn't have to do with proof being returned.
20:46:29 <brent> ack dlongley
20:46:29 <Zakim> dlongley, you wanted to say that i think that embedded mechanisms can do either of these -- and if we want to clearly say that you can ask for either, that's fine
20:47:16 <GregB> dlongley: Okay to return proof. Valuable to implementers. Considerations for multi-proof. And digital wallets.
20:47:48 <GregB> brent: encourage to the PR and what its trying to request.
20:47:53 <selfissued_> q+
20:48:03 <brent> ack selfissued_
20:48:45 <DavidC_> I have submitted issue #1399
20:48:48 <dlongley> `proof` is *in the credential*, that's what embedding is though.
20:49:05 <GregB> selfissued: it is not independent. See the text of the PR. This interface returns information in the credential.
20:49:23 <manu> q+
20:49:26 <manu> q-
20:49:28 <brent> ack manu
20:49:38 <brent> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/1398
20:49:48 <manu> q+
20:50:11 <GregB> brent: Issue 1398 credential status id field is optional. Required id property not necessary.
20:50:18 <manu> q-
20:50:33 <GregB> manu: I'll raise the PR. Its fairly straightforward.
20:50:53 <brent> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/1388
20:51:36 <manu> q+
20:51:37 <selfissued_> q+
20:51:41 <GregB> brent: Issue 1388 Specify what kind of processing is safe on a returned document PR 1392 has been raised. PR has requested changes
20:51:44 <brent> ack manu
20:52:21 <GregB> manu: Mike is requesting changes since text is not actionable. Need to hear from Jeffery.
20:52:23 <brent> ack selfissued_
20:52:51 <manu> q+
20:52:53 <GregB> selfissued: Yeah, I kinda agree with Manu's assesment. I'm fine if we develop concrete text.
20:53:09 <brent> ack manu
20:53:58 <GregB> manu: One thing to note is this text is for specification authors. Guidance to specification authors on what is a acceptable cryptosuite.
20:54:01 <brent> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/1377
20:54:45 <selfissued_> PR 1397 is also about this
20:54:57 <GregB> brent: Issue 1377 a number of PRs 1393, 1394. 1394 has a number of approvals. Though some comments. 1393 not as clear. Already discussed
20:55:49 <GregB> brent: a number of PRs are in a good place likely to be merged soon. Some are not. PRs would be closed and issues closed or deferred
20:55:59 <selfissued_> q+
20:56:16 <GregB> brent: Expressing gratitude to all
20:56:28 <manu> Yes, thank you to everyone for the work and passion they've put into the work! Happy Holidays! Happy New Year! :)
20:56:29 <pdl_asu> +1 to Brent's expression of thankfulness ;-)
20:56:35 <brent> ack selfissued_
20:56:51 <DavidC_> +1
20:57:13 <brent> zakim, who is here?
20:57:13 <Zakim> Present: brent, cabernet, decentralgabe, selfissued_, pauld_gs, DavidC, GregB, manu, dlongley, cabernet_, dlehn, TallTed, andres, DavidC_
20:57:15 <Zakim> On IRC I see TallTed, cabernet_, pauld_gs1, selfissued_, RRSAgent, Zakim, brent, dlehn, enick_708, cel, AnthonySpencer, jyasskin, manu, Github, npd, bumblefudge1, seabass,
20:57:15 <Zakim> ... MojGraph, saysaywhat, bumblefudge, ounfacdo, cel[m], joraboi445, SintayewGashaw, cel[h], w3c_modbot, ivan, rbyers, dlongley, hadleybeeman, stenr, shigeya, bigbluehat, csarven,
20:57:15 <Zakim> ... rhiaro
20:57:24 <brent> zakim, close the meeting
20:57:24 <Zakim> I don't understand 'close the meeting', brent
20:57:30 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
20:57:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/20-vcwg-minutes.html TallTed
20:57:38 <brent> zakim, end the meeting
20:57:38 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been brent, cabernet, decentralgabe, selfissued_, pauld_gs, DavidC, GregB, manu, dlongley, cabernet_, dlehn, TallTed, andres, DavidC_
20:57:38 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
20:57:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/20-vcwg-minutes.html Zakim
20:57:44 <brent> rrsagent, bye
20:57:44 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
20:57:44 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, brent; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
20:57:44 <TallTed> RRSAgent, make logs public
20:57:45 <Zakim> Zakim has left #vcwg